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Author Topic: What to plant in wet muck soil  (Read 1164 times)

Scotthomestead

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What to plant in wet muck soil
« on: October 11, 2020, 08:24:27 AM »
So I have a section of pasture that is on a hill, with acidic black muck and is wet during the summer and fall and bone dry in the winter and spring. Itís right next to my little mango grove (White sand) and I was wondering what fruit I could plant to make use of the space.

Orkine

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2020, 11:19:50 AM »
Are you interested in annonas?  There are some that come on a pond apple root stock that may do ok or do well in the location you describe.
I have several pond apples in areas that are not just wet but pond water during parts of the summer and fall.  The water if flowing, albeit slowly and I am told that matters.  On about four of these pond apples I have grafted Atemoya (on cherimoya interstock) and this past spring added guanabana, ilama, Cherilata and hunucma  amarilla.  I don't know how compatible these would be in the long term but I am experimenting to see how I can use this part of my yard most effectively.

Also, do you have the opportunity to build a mound in spots where you can plant a tree?  (If this is a designated wetland,  make sure you don't need a wetland fill permit before filling in a wetland)

roblack

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2020, 11:31:58 AM »
You could amend the soil to make it less mucky.

Consider adding a mixture of plants, including good groundcover, to improve the soil structure and biome. PineIslander and Froggie would be excellent consultants in this regard, among others here.

Annonas, with jabos partially shaded and garcinias mixed would be a fun experiment.

Kwai muk, gotta give it a try.




Scotthomestead

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2020, 12:38:04 PM »
I really like anonnas. Anyone know where to get them on pond apple rootstock? Water seeps from the hillside and trickles across the surface, then flows into my pond so itís not stagnant.

bovine421

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2020, 07:49:16 PM »

 :)
Tete Nene Julie Little Gem Pickering Dot Sonpari Mallika PPK E-4 OS Phoenix Fruit Punch SweetTart Honey Kiss M-4 Neelam Lychee Guava  Atemoya Sugar Apple Soursop Citrus Plantain Barbados Cherry

BoBiscuit

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2020, 11:48:06 PM »
Plant some eucalyptus in there and it will suck up that muck pretty fast I bet!

Mike T

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2020, 05:31:53 AM »
E.camaldulensis or E.ptychocarpa might work but not 700 other species. Watercress, salak, rice paddy herb, any carnivorous species, Lophostemons,Melaluecas,Callistemons, numerous palm species like lipsticks and so many more are fans of mud. The world is your oyster.

Galatians522

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2021, 09:19:13 PM »
Sorry for the late response on this thread. But seeing your other post reminded me that I never did respond when you started this one (there aren't many other forum members in Highlands County). Sugarcane is the traditional Florida crop in the situation that you are describing. It is a great plant that has a lot of uses on a homestead and few original Cracker homesteads were without a patch of cane. Mostly it was used to make suryp. I had the pleasure of talking to a man whose parents pioneered in the Avon Park area about how he made suryp. His cane patch was in a location exactly like what you are describing. He also grew bananas down there along with his winter garden.

Jagmanjoe

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2021, 12:59:31 AM »
I am going to throw a real wrench into this.  There is an invasive that I believe does very well in wet muck soil called the Brazilian Pepper.  Also back in 2018 there was something published about grafting mango to the Brazilian Pepper for the purpose of having it grow in a wet clay soil.  The paper spoke of some follow up because it looked like while there was some limited success, it was done at the wrong time of the year.  But while there was a mention within the paper of a follow up, I can not locate it. 

Yes, the two plants are related according to the paper and while I am not advocating propagating an invasive, if such a graft did work for wet muck style soil, it could generate a group out there digging up the invasive in the wild to graft onto and propagate mango varieties that could do well in some of the muck soil we have around  Florida.

Here is the link to that paper  ---    https://www.slideshare.net/fathineana/grafting-mango-on-brazilian-pepper-root-stock-2

Please don't stone me for my off the wall thinking.

Scotthomestead

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2021, 04:40:45 PM »
Galations522 That old man wouldnít happen to have been Duane Kopta?  Iím leaning towards sugarcane and eventually some anonas grafted to pond apple if I can find them. Brazilian pepper is the devil around here but if they can be grafted to mango Iíve got some experimenting to do.

Galatians522

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2021, 06:35:39 PM »
Galations522 That old man wouldnít happen to have been Duane Kopta?  Iím leaning towards sugarcane and eventually some anonas grafted to pond apple if I can find them. Brazilian pepper is the devil around here but if they can be grafted to mango Iíve got some experimenting to do.

Indeed it was! I was very sorry to hear that he had passed away this year. It was a pleasure getting to learn from him while I had the chance.

From the research that I have done on this forum, Ilama has the best compatibility with pond apple (lasting 20 years or more in some cases). Apparently, Excalibur Nursery regularly grafted Genova Red to a specific selection of pond apple that had better compatibility. Maybe they still have trees? I also saw a Dream that Wayne Clifton had grafted to pond apple and was growing in his yard in Bradenton. It was growing well, but was only 3-4 years old (about the age that incompatibility starts to show up to my understanding).

I don't think that Mango on Brazilian Pepper will result in a healthy productive tree, but I am willing to be proved wrong.

bsbullie

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2021, 10:11:57 AM »
DO NOT plant Brazilian Pepper. Besides being one of the most nasty invasive plants, it is extremely bad to those with allergies and asthma.

Depending on how wet the soil stays and how cold your winters are, sapodilla may be an option.
- Rob

Galatians522

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2021, 09:51:51 PM »
In addition to Rob's statement, it is also illiegal to willfully plant brazilian pepper in the state of Florida.

Scotthomestead

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2021, 12:06:07 PM »
Yep they donít make them like Mr. Kopta any more. I spoke to his son yesterday and Iím going to help them harvest that cane patch that my great grandfather might have helped plant (he lived next door to them) and Iím going to get some to plant at my place. As far as Brazilian pepper goes, Iíd never plant that awful stuff. I just spent a year clearing it all off my property. There is one I missed in the ditch that I may do the experimenting on.

Jagmanjoe

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2021, 02:54:28 PM »
I was by no means suggesting planting the Brazilian Pepper.  My thinking was to go out and find one growing in the wild, dig it up, lop off the top and destroy that part immediately and then graft a Mango variety or two to the rootstock hoping it will take per that link I provided earlier and have more potential of surviving in wet soil due to the rootstock itself.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 02:56:19 PM by Jagmanjoe »

Galatians522

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2021, 06:50:56 PM »
Yep they donít make them like Mr. Kopta any more. I spoke to his son yesterday and Iím going to help them harvest that cane patch that my great grandfather might have helped plant (he lived next door to them) and Iím going to get some to plant at my place. As far as Brazilian pepper goes, Iíd never plant that awful stuff. I just spent a year clearing it all off my property. There is one I missed in the ditch that I may do the experimenting on.

You are right about that! I didn't have the pleasure of knowing him very long, but I did enjoy talking to Mr. Kopta about what he remembered of the pioneer days. He even told me about how they would fix 'coon so that it tasted like beef! Lol! I had given him my phone number and was going to help him with cutting the cane when the weather cooled off. He said he would call me around November, but he passed before we got the chance. I'm glad to hear that someone is going to cary on the tradition. I didn't realize that the cane patch was that old. If its of any interest to you, Duane told me it was a kind called "Blue Ribbon."

Scotthomestead

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2021, 11:42:29 AM »
Thank you, I didnít know that.

Orkine

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2021, 05:18:26 PM »
If you don't mind the wait, I could send you some pond apple seeds to start.  In a year or so they will be big enough to graft on to.
PM me if you are game.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 05:22:56 PM by Orkine »

buddy roo

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2021, 01:38:01 PM »
something really different,  maybe dig it down in winter 1 foot or souse the soil as berm for trees and raise crawfish in the pond there  are a lot of good edible plants that grow in water or muck and you will never have to feed the crawfish

Orkine

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Re: What to plant in wet muck soil
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2021, 03:17:20 PM »
Intrigued, crawfish farm, do say more or share links to how.

 

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