Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)  (Read 957 times)

JoeP450

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
  • Mahaha Chinook
    • View Profile
Came across this article which is paywalled.... http://www.actahort.org/books/665/665_12.htm  But mentions mostly seedling lychees in Australian breeding program flowering after three years?!?!




Find this totally wild because from what I have heard is that it takes 15-20 years for a Lychee seedling to flower 🤷‍♂️

Joe



happyhana

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 55
    • Hana, Hawaii
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2020, 09:42:36 PM »
Yes! Thanks for this, in another thread I posted the years to fruit of 500 seedlings that led to Groff selection

ďAs an aside, one point of optimism for me was that 11.4% of seedlings fruited by year 6, 40% fruited in year 7, 94% fruited by year 11.ď

All I need is one more example of early fruiting to convince me the lychee breeding industrial complex has been sowing misinformation

3 years does seem crazy though. Maybe 3 years from planting but 6yo seedlings?

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7914
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2020, 10:41:07 PM »
Can't believe those Australians HH. A 2005 article mind you and the lead author is Tibby Dixon of Erdon Lee and seedless fame. The idea that lychee seedlings are not worthwhile has been challenged in Queensland. I understand that is how the prodigies are identified and brought into production and larger better versions of FZS came about. Unfortunately the seedless family tree is now a stump but erdon lee would be good to pursue even further with seedlings.
Joe you are too warm for lychees aren't you?

JoeP450

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
  • Mahaha Chinook
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2020, 12:27:30 PM »
Hey Mike

Iím in a great spot in fl for lychee and my sweet heart tree produces nice fruit every year.


Iím also growing a seedling lychee which I acquired from my mother which I decided to plant out because I like the leaves on it. It was growing in a 5 gallon plastic kitty litter bucket and badly neglected, I would say itís about 5 years old. Itís had a rough time adjusting to the soil in its spot but recently hit it with some iron chelate and tip pruned it. My personal vendetta to fruit this, hence reading up on lychee literature.



Joe




Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7914
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2020, 03:28:05 PM »
Those sweetheart look a bit like FZS although a little smaller. Don't get too carried away with seedling as trials in China involving hundreds of seedlings have also yielded few quality trees producing fruit comparable to recognised varieties.

Galatians522

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33
    • Florida 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2020, 10:42:50 PM »
Joe, we grew 2 Brewster seedlings to fruition. One took about 25 years, the other was closer to 30. The fruit quality on both was poor. We also have an Emperor seedling that fruited after 5-6 years and I can't tell the difference between it and the air layerd trees in taste and quality.

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7914
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2020, 04:24:08 AM »
The more I look at Joe's lovely harvest the more I am sure they are FZS or a selection of them. Are seeds small with lots of chicken tongues? Seedlings are dicey, no doubt about it in spite of a study that encourages growing them. Erdon Lee supposedly gives faster and better quality seedling fruiting than most. I wonder how true they are.

murahilin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3208
    • USA Greenacres, Florida Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2020, 07:01:38 AM »
The more I look at Joe's lovely harvest the more I am sure they are FZS or a selection of them. Are seeds small with lots of chicken tongues? Seedlings are dicey, no doubt about it in spite of a study that encourages growing them. Erdon Lee supposedly gives faster and better quality seedling fruiting than most. I wonder how true they are.

You could be right. Sweetheart is just a trademarked marketing name because the original growers lost the tags from the trees that they imported from Australia.

bsbullie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8893
    • USA, Boynton Beach, FL 33472, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2020, 07:19:41 AM »
The more I look at Joe's lovely harvest the more I am sure they are FZS or a selection of them. Are seeds small with lots of chicken tongues? Seedlings are dicey, no doubt about it in spite of a study that encourages growing them. Erdon Lee supposedly gives faster and better quality seedling fruiting than most. I wonder how true they are.

You could be right. Sweetheart is just a trademarked marketing name because the original growers lost the tags from the trees that they imported from Australia.

Yes, as they were originally supposed "unknown" varieties brought in from Australia.  Possibly they "conveniently" lost the tags from "unknown" varieties...
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 07:21:31 AM by bsbullie »
- Rob

bsbullie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8893
    • USA, Boynton Beach, FL 33472, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2020, 07:22:55 AM »
The more I look at Joe's lovely harvest the more I am sure they are FZS or a selection of them. Are seeds small with lots of chicken tongues? Seedlings are dicey, no doubt about it in spite of a study that encourages growing them. Erdon Lee supposedly gives faster and better quality seedling fruiting than most. I wonder how true they are.

Yes, that describes the seeds of Sweetheart lychees.
- Rob

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7914
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2020, 07:43:01 AM »
Bingo there is nothing else they can be, Concubine laughing.

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7914
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2020, 07:50:31 AM »
They should be softer fleshed with quite pliable skin which yields  little under pressure rather than cracking easily. Green fruit are a bit more edible than most

LycheeLust

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
  • I need the seedless lychee
    • Los Angeles, 10A
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2020, 12:05:27 PM »
Are all sweetheart lychees FZS then?

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7914
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2020, 03:55:32 PM »
I have only looked at he pics and they are FZS from what I saw. Could be labelling issues with others that identify as sweetheart. Interestingly FZS now has a couple of selections with a larger fruited form which I posted about a few years ago.

Galatians522

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33
    • Florida 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2020, 06:47:18 PM »
Mike,
You nailed the description of Sweet Heart--shriveled seed, slightly softer flesh, elastic peel, and ripe with some green on the skin. The pictures I have seen of FZS in Australia look just like Sweet Heart. It definitely is in that family along with Hak Ip (Florida Hak Ip). The the main difference between the two seems to be panicle size and a slight flavor difference. Just as you mentioned, there are often strains of the same variety with slightly different characteristics. It think both of these are strains of FZS based on your comments.

Galatians522

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33
    • Florida 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2020, 06:58:48 PM »
The more I look at Joe's lovely harvest the more I am sure they are FZS or a selection of them. Are seeds small with lots of chicken tongues? Seedlings are dicey, no doubt about it in spite of a study that encourages growing them. Erdon Lee supposedly gives faster and better quality seedling fruiting than most. I wonder how true they are.

You could be right. Sweetheart is just a trademarked marketing name because the original growers lost the tags from the trees that they imported from Australia.

Yes, as they were originally supposed "unknown" varieties brought in from Australia.  Possibly they "conveniently" lost the tags from "unknown" varieties...

I personally know the son from the family that imported Sweet Heart. He told me that the tags were lost in Hurricane Andrew (for those who were not in Florida then "war zone" would be the most accurate discription of South Florida after Andrew). He also claimed that the original tree produced much larger fruit (closer to Emperor size). This fits with Mike's statement about larger fruited strains of FZS.

LycheeLust

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
  • I need the seedless lychee
    • Los Angeles, 10A
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2020, 07:01:29 PM »
The more I look at Joe's lovely harvest the more I am sure they are FZS or a selection of them. Are seeds small with lots of chicken tongues? Seedlings are dicey, no doubt about it in spite of a study that encourages growing them. Erdon Lee supposedly gives faster and better quality seedling fruiting than most. I wonder how true they are.

You could be right. Sweetheart is just a trademarked marketing name because the original growers lost the tags from the trees that they imported from Australia.

Yes, as they were originally supposed "unknown" varieties brought in from Australia.  Possibly they "conveniently" lost the tags from "unknown" varieties...

I personally know the son from the family that imported Sweet Heart. He told me that the tags were lost in Hurricane Andrew (for those who were not in Florida then "war zone" would be the most accurate discription of South Florida after Andrew). He also claimed that the original tree produced much larger fruit (closer to Emperor size). This fits with Mike's statement about larger fruited strains of FZS.

So where can I order this tree? lol

LycheeLust

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
  • I need the seedless lychee
    • Los Angeles, 10A
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2020, 07:12:25 PM »
I have only looked at he pics and they are FZS from what I saw. Could be labelling issues with others that identify as sweetheart. Interestingly FZS now has a couple of selections with a larger fruited form which I posted about a few years ago.

https://plantogram.com/product/lychee_sweetheart/

does this look like FZS?

bsbullie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8893
    • USA, Boynton Beach, FL 33472, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2020, 07:23:43 PM »
The more I look at Joe's lovely harvest the more I am sure they are FZS or a selection of them. Are seeds small with lots of chicken tongues? Seedlings are dicey, no doubt about it in spite of a study that encourages growing them. Erdon Lee supposedly gives faster and better quality seedling fruiting than most. I wonder how true they are.

You could be right. Sweetheart is just a trademarked marketing name because the original growers lost the tags from the trees that they imported from Australia.

Yes, as they were originally supposed "unknown" varieties brought in from Australia.  Possibly they "conveniently" lost the tags from "unknown" varieties...

I personally know the son from the family that imported Sweet Heart. He told me that the tags were lost in Hurricane Andrew (for those who were not in Florida then "war zone" would be the most accurate discription of South Florida after Andrew). He also claimed that the original tree produced much larger fruit (closer to Emperor size). This fits with Mike's statement about larger fruited strains of FZS.

There is no secret of the "story" behind it (its actually published).  Here is what makes the story unbelievable and a little BSish...even if the trees were tossed in Andrew, the paperwork should have been in existence.
 This paperwork identifying the varieties would have been important as they would have had to report it for quarantine purposes
- Rob

bsbullie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8893
    • USA, Boynton Beach, FL 33472, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2020, 07:26:25 PM »
I have only looked at he pics and they are FZS from what I saw. Could be labelling issues with others that identify as sweetheart. Interestingly FZS now has a couple of selections with a larger fruited form which I posted about a few years ago.

https://plantogram.com/product/lychee_sweetheart/

does this look like FZS?

Its everywhere.  You should be easily able to find it in Cali and not have to pay ridiculous prices to have shipped from Florida and risk the tree not surviving.

I also would not recommend buying a lychee tree from Florida at this time due to erinose mites
- Rob

LycheeLust

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 84
  • I need the seedless lychee
    • Los Angeles, 10A
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2020, 08:18:46 PM »
I have only looked at he pics and they are FZS from what I saw. Could be labelling issues with others that identify as sweetheart. Interestingly FZS now has a couple of selections with a larger fruited form which I posted about a few years ago.

https://plantogram.com/product/lychee_sweetheart/

does this look like FZS?

Its everywhere.  You should be easily able to find it in Cali and not have to pay ridiculous prices to have shipped from Florida and risk the tree not surviving.

I also would not recommend buying a lychee tree from Florida at this time due to erinose mites
Thanks for those tips

Galatians522

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33
    • Florida 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2020, 11:03:25 PM »
There is no secret of the "story" behind it (its actually published).  Here is what makes the story unbelievable and a little BSish...even if the trees were tossed in Andrew, the paperwork should have been in existence.
 This paperwork identifying the varieties would have been important as they would have had to report it for quarantine purposes
[/quote]

You make some excellent points and are very insightful. I would not be at all surprised if he knew the names of the 5 varieties they imported even if the paperwork had been lost. However, a savvy business man wouldn't give up "proprietary" information that would enable people bypass his trademark. Lychees were more than a hobby for him. They were his livelihood. That is why I never pressed him about the names of those 5 varieties.

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7914
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2020, 11:27:28 PM »
LL the pic from the link has tubercles correct but is the wrong red colour and not exactly the right shape with some fruit not being conical enough. Maybe look at n old thread where I posted pics of large 50g FZS which were redder than the standard form. They are distinctive. Haak yip looks wrong in some pics I have seen posted also. Besides FZS, erdom lee and sansuelin there is only really one other big lychee (routinely over say 40g) and that is Yook ho pow which is also called

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7914
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2020, 11:29:39 PM »
Sorry,  sum yee hong.

JoeP450

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
  • Mahaha Chinook
    • View Profile
Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2020, 04:12:26 PM »
Guys really digging this thread, as too my lychee tree I bought it from lychee tree nursery in Stuart FL as labeled as sweetheart, they sell a nice variety of lychee trees that are in great shape. Galatians, congrats on fruiting those two trees, Iím hoping I can be so lucky with my seedling. Iím not expecting it to be a winner but there is always a slim chance it could be and I am growing from seed other types of tropical fruit for this reason. I sprout out a bunch of seeds and hang on to whatever has different leaves or growth habit to see what the fruit eventually comes out like. In the end itís the way new varieties come about, somebodyís gotta buy a few lotto tickets 👍

Joe

 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers