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Author Topic: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)  (Read 933 times)

JoeP450

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Came across this article which is paywalled.... http://www.actahort.org/books/665/665_12.htm  But mentions mostly seedling lychees in Australian breeding program flowering after three years?!?!




Find this totally wild because from what I have heard is that it takes 15-20 years for a Lychee seedling to flower 🤷‍♂️

Joe



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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2020, 09:42:36 PM »
Yes! Thanks for this, in another thread I posted the years to fruit of 500 seedlings that led to Groff selection

ďAs an aside, one point of optimism for me was that 11.4% of seedlings fruited by year 6, 40% fruited in year 7, 94% fruited by year 11.ď

All I need is one more example of early fruiting to convince me the lychee breeding industrial complex has been sowing misinformation

3 years does seem crazy though. Maybe 3 years from planting but 6yo seedlings?

Mike T

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2020, 10:41:07 PM »
Can't believe those Australians HH. A 2005 article mind you and the lead author is Tibby Dixon of Erdon Lee and seedless fame. The idea that lychee seedlings are not worthwhile has been challenged in Queensland. I understand that is how the prodigies are identified and brought into production and larger better versions of FZS came about. Unfortunately the seedless family tree is now a stump but erdon lee would be good to pursue even further with seedlings.
Joe you are too warm for lychees aren't you?

JoeP450

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2020, 12:27:30 PM »
Hey Mike

Iím in a great spot in fl for lychee and my sweet heart tree produces nice fruit every year.


Iím also growing a seedling lychee which I acquired from my mother which I decided to plant out because I like the leaves on it. It was growing in a 5 gallon plastic kitty litter bucket and badly neglected, I would say itís about 5 years old. Itís had a rough time adjusting to the soil in its spot but recently hit it with some iron chelate and tip pruned it. My personal vendetta to fruit this, hence reading up on lychee literature.



Joe




Mike T

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2020, 03:28:05 PM »
Those sweetheart look a bit like FZS although a little smaller. Don't get too carried away with seedling as trials in China involving hundreds of seedlings have also yielded few quality trees producing fruit comparable to recognised varieties.

Galatians522

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2020, 10:42:50 PM »
Joe, we grew 2 Brewster seedlings to fruition. One took about 25 years, the other was closer to 30. The fruit quality on both was poor. We also have an Emperor seedling that fruited after 5-6 years and I can't tell the difference between it and the air layerd trees in taste and quality.

Mike T

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2020, 04:24:08 AM »
The more I look at Joe's lovely harvest the more I am sure they are FZS or a selection of them. Are seeds small with lots of chicken tongues? Seedlings are dicey, no doubt about it in spite of a study that encourages growing them. Erdon Lee supposedly gives faster and better quality seedling fruiting than most. I wonder how true they are.

murahilin

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2020, 07:01:38 AM »
The more I look at Joe's lovely harvest the more I am sure they are FZS or a selection of them. Are seeds small with lots of chicken tongues? Seedlings are dicey, no doubt about it in spite of a study that encourages growing them. Erdon Lee supposedly gives faster and better quality seedling fruiting than most. I wonder how true they are.

You could be right. Sweetheart is just a trademarked marketing name because the original growers lost the tags from the trees that they imported from Australia.

bsbullie

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2020, 07:19:41 AM »
The more I look at Joe's lovely harvest the more I am sure they are FZS or a selection of them. Are seeds small with lots of chicken tongues? Seedlings are dicey, no doubt about it in spite of a study that encourages growing them. Erdon Lee supposedly gives faster and better quality seedling fruiting than most. I wonder how true they are.

You could be right. Sweetheart is just a trademarked marketing name because the original growers lost the tags from the trees that they imported from Australia.

Yes, as they were originally supposed "unknown" varieties brought in from Australia.  Possibly they "conveniently" lost the tags from "unknown" varieties...
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 07:21:31 AM by bsbullie »
- Rob

bsbullie

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2020, 07:22:55 AM »
The more I look at Joe's lovely harvest the more I am sure they are FZS or a selection of them. Are seeds small with lots of chicken tongues? Seedlings are dicey, no doubt about it in spite of a study that encourages growing them. Erdon Lee supposedly gives faster and better quality seedling fruiting than most. I wonder how true they are.

Yes, that describes the seeds of Sweetheart lychees.
- Rob

Mike T

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2020, 07:43:01 AM »
Bingo there is nothing else they can be, Concubine laughing.

Mike T

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2020, 07:50:31 AM »
They should be softer fleshed with quite pliable skin which yields  little under pressure rather than cracking easily. Green fruit are a bit more edible than most

LycheeLust

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2020, 12:05:27 PM »
Are all sweetheart lychees FZS then?

Mike T

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2020, 03:55:32 PM »
I have only looked at he pics and they are FZS from what I saw. Could be labelling issues with others that identify as sweetheart. Interestingly FZS now has a couple of selections with a larger fruited form which I posted about a few years ago.

Galatians522

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2020, 06:47:18 PM »
Mike,
You nailed the description of Sweet Heart--shriveled seed, slightly softer flesh, elastic peel, and ripe with some green on the skin. The pictures I have seen of FZS in Australia look just like Sweet Heart. It definitely is in that family along with Hak Ip (Florida Hak Ip). The the main difference between the two seems to be panicle size and a slight flavor difference. Just as you mentioned, there are often strains of the same variety with slightly different characteristics. It think both of these are strains of FZS based on your comments.

Galatians522

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2020, 06:58:48 PM »
The more I look at Joe's lovely harvest the more I am sure they are FZS or a selection of them. Are seeds small with lots of chicken tongues? Seedlings are dicey, no doubt about it in spite of a study that encourages growing them. Erdon Lee supposedly gives faster and better quality seedling fruiting than most. I wonder how true they are.

You could be right. Sweetheart is just a trademarked marketing name because the original growers lost the tags from the trees that they imported from Australia.

Yes, as they were originally supposed "unknown" varieties brought in from Australia.  Possibly they "conveniently" lost the tags from "unknown" varieties...

I personally know the son from the family that imported Sweet Heart. He told me that the tags were lost in Hurricane Andrew (for those who were not in Florida then "war zone" would be the most accurate discription of South Florida after Andrew). He also claimed that the original tree produced much larger fruit (closer to Emperor size). This fits with Mike's statement about larger fruited strains of FZS.

LycheeLust

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2020, 07:01:29 PM »
The more I look at Joe's lovely harvest the more I am sure they are FZS or a selection of them. Are seeds small with lots of chicken tongues? Seedlings are dicey, no doubt about it in spite of a study that encourages growing them. Erdon Lee supposedly gives faster and better quality seedling fruiting than most. I wonder how true they are.

You could be right. Sweetheart is just a trademarked marketing name because the original growers lost the tags from the trees that they imported from Australia.

Yes, as they were originally supposed "unknown" varieties brought in from Australia.  Possibly they "conveniently" lost the tags from "unknown" varieties...

I personally know the son from the family that imported Sweet Heart. He told me that the tags were lost in Hurricane Andrew (for those who were not in Florida then "war zone" would be the most accurate discription of South Florida after Andrew). He also claimed that the original tree produced much larger fruit (closer to Emperor size). This fits with Mike's statement about larger fruited strains of FZS.

So where can I order this tree? lol

LycheeLust

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2020, 07:12:25 PM »
I have only looked at he pics and they are FZS from what I saw. Could be labelling issues with others that identify as sweetheart. Interestingly FZS now has a couple of selections with a larger fruited form which I posted about a few years ago.

https://plantogram.com/product/lychee_sweetheart/

does this look like FZS?

bsbullie

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2020, 07:23:43 PM »
The more I look at Joe's lovely harvest the more I am sure they are FZS or a selection of them. Are seeds small with lots of chicken tongues? Seedlings are dicey, no doubt about it in spite of a study that encourages growing them. Erdon Lee supposedly gives faster and better quality seedling fruiting than most. I wonder how true they are.

You could be right. Sweetheart is just a trademarked marketing name because the original growers lost the tags from the trees that they imported from Australia.

Yes, as they were originally supposed "unknown" varieties brought in from Australia.  Possibly they "conveniently" lost the tags from "unknown" varieties...

I personally know the son from the family that imported Sweet Heart. He told me that the tags were lost in Hurricane Andrew (for those who were not in Florida then "war zone" would be the most accurate discription of South Florida after Andrew). He also claimed that the original tree produced much larger fruit (closer to Emperor size). This fits with Mike's statement about larger fruited strains of FZS.

There is no secret of the "story" behind it (its actually published).  Here is what makes the story unbelievable and a little BSish...even if the trees were tossed in Andrew, the paperwork should have been in existence.
 This paperwork identifying the varieties would have been important as they would have had to report it for quarantine purposes
- Rob

bsbullie

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2020, 07:26:25 PM »
I have only looked at he pics and they are FZS from what I saw. Could be labelling issues with others that identify as sweetheart. Interestingly FZS now has a couple of selections with a larger fruited form which I posted about a few years ago.

https://plantogram.com/product/lychee_sweetheart/

does this look like FZS?

Its everywhere.  You should be easily able to find it in Cali and not have to pay ridiculous prices to have shipped from Florida and risk the tree not surviving.

I also would not recommend buying a lychee tree from Florida at this time due to erinose mites
- Rob

LycheeLust

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2020, 08:18:46 PM »
I have only looked at he pics and they are FZS from what I saw. Could be labelling issues with others that identify as sweetheart. Interestingly FZS now has a couple of selections with a larger fruited form which I posted about a few years ago.

https://plantogram.com/product/lychee_sweetheart/

does this look like FZS?

Its everywhere.  You should be easily able to find it in Cali and not have to pay ridiculous prices to have shipped from Florida and risk the tree not surviving.

I also would not recommend buying a lychee tree from Florida at this time due to erinose mites
Thanks for those tips

Galatians522

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2020, 11:03:25 PM »
There is no secret of the "story" behind it (its actually published).  Here is what makes the story unbelievable and a little BSish...even if the trees were tossed in Andrew, the paperwork should have been in existence.
 This paperwork identifying the varieties would have been important as they would have had to report it for quarantine purposes
[/quote]

You make some excellent points and are very insightful. I would not be at all surprised if he knew the names of the 5 varieties they imported even if the paperwork had been lost. However, a savvy business man wouldn't give up "proprietary" information that would enable people bypass his trademark. Lychees were more than a hobby for him. They were his livelihood. That is why I never pressed him about the names of those 5 varieties.

Mike T

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2020, 11:27:28 PM »
LL the pic from the link has tubercles correct but is the wrong red colour and not exactly the right shape with some fruit not being conical enough. Maybe look at n old thread where I posted pics of large 50g FZS which were redder than the standard form. They are distinctive. Haak yip looks wrong in some pics I have seen posted also. Besides FZS, erdom lee and sansuelin there is only really one other big lychee (routinely over say 40g) and that is Yook ho pow which is also called

Mike T

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2020, 11:29:39 PM »
Sorry,  sum yee hong.

JoeP450

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2020, 04:12:26 PM »
Guys really digging this thread, as too my lychee tree I bought it from lychee tree nursery in Stuart FL as labeled as sweetheart, they sell a nice variety of lychee trees that are in great shape. Galatians, congrats on fruiting those two trees, Iím hoping I can be so lucky with my seedling. Iím not expecting it to be a winner but there is always a slim chance it could be and I am growing from seed other types of tropical fruit for this reason. I sprout out a bunch of seeds and hang on to whatever has different leaves or growth habit to see what the fruit eventually comes out like. In the end itís the way new varieties come about, somebodyís gotta buy a few lotto tickets 👍

Joe

Galatians522

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2020, 06:56:31 PM »
LL the pic from the link has tubercles correct but is the wrong red colour and not exactly the right shape with some fruit not being conical enough. Maybe look at n old thread where I posted pics of large 50g FZS which were redder than the standard form. They are distinctive. Haak yip looks wrong in some pics I have seen posted also. Besides FZS, erdom lee and sansuelin there is only really one other big lychee (routinely over say 40g) and that is Yook ho pow which is also called

Thanks Mike, that is very valuable information. We have Emperor (Chakrapad originally) that averages well over 40g when cultural care is good, with Sweet Heart, and Florida Haak Yip being the next largest. I am pretty sure they both average over 40g, but will have to pay closer attention when we harvest next year.

Btw, I think what you call Haak Yip in Australia we have mislabeled as Ohia in Florida. It matches the pictures and discription I saw from Australia and even tastes vaguely like Kiamana. I always wondered why the Thai would have called it Ohia ("the very best" or something like that) when it never has a chicken tongue seed and is a little on the small side.

Galatians522

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2020, 07:01:31 PM »
 
Guys really digging this thread, as too my lychee tree I bought it from lychee tree nursery in Stuart FL as labeled as sweetheart, they sell a nice variety of lychee trees that are in great shape. Galatians, congrats on fruiting those two trees, Iím hoping I can be so lucky with my seedling. Iím not expecting it to be a winner but there is always a slim chance it could be and I am growing from seed other types of tropical fruit for this reason. I sprout out a bunch of seeds and hang on to whatever has different leaves or growth habit to see what the fruit eventually comes out like. In the end itís the way new varieties come about, somebodyís gotta buy a few lotto tickets 👍

Joe

The odds are way better with fruit trees. I don't know why more people don't do it.  ;D

Galatians522

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2020, 07:34:28 AM »
I have done a lot of thinking about lychee seedling variability (including the juvinile period). As people continue to select for desireable traits, those traits become more concentraited in the offspring. Thus a seedling grown from an ancient cultivar like Brewster will be much less likely to produce offspring with traits that people desire. Conversely, a seedling of a newer cultivar like Emperor/Chakrapad has had many generations to weed out undesireable traits and will be far more likely to produce the way people want it to.

Add to this that Brewster was thought by Groff to be a hybrid of Shan Chi (Mountain Lychee) and a "water lychee." This makes it quite variable from seed and is supported (at least to me) by the fact that one of the two trees we grew from Brewster seed produces fruit that looks exactly like the pictures (on USDA germplasm request website) I have seen of Shan Chi. Ie it is small, seedy, spiney, sour and took about 25 years to come into bearing.

The Emperor seedling on the other hand is exactly like emperor, leaves, tree, and fruit. It came into bearing quickly from seed and started blooming at only 6'-7' tall.

This would explain the disconnect between "expert" opinions. People came to different conclusions because they started with a different gene pool to begin with.

JoeP450

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2020, 02:32:15 PM »
Hey Galatians,

Can you post some pics of your emperor seedlingís leaves? Thanks

Joe

Galatians522

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2020, 03:14:45 PM »
Sure, the tree is at my Dad's place. He is the one who thought we should plant it--I was highly skeptical at the time from listening to the "experts." I will try get some pictures when I am over there. Then, I'll have to learn how to up load them to the forum.  :P

simon_grow

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2020, 11:44:07 PM »
I also believe Sweetheart is FZS. I had several posts on the subject a while back. Also, what I have seen being sold as Hak Ip in Florida is not the same Hak Ip that is grown in China.

It was mentioned on this forum that some nurseries in Florida and California were selling Sweetheart and Hak Ip interchangeably. Iíve posted pictures of the real Hak Ip before. It has a relatively smooth shell, is medium sized and has a medium small seed. It is kinda like a smaller version of Kaimana except it doesnít have the bumpy line that Kaimana has.

By the way, Kaimana is a really good quality fruit. Its not the sweetest and it doesnít have a very strong Lychee/rose taste or smell but it is good non the less. It has good size fruit with a small seed and has good enough sweetness and Lychee flavor to keep you coming back for more. Some of the larger Kaimana fruit are as big as golf balls.

Simon

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2020, 12:02:04 AM »
Hereís the thread which pictures comparing Sweetheart and Hak Ip. The link also has a link to another thread where I posted pictures of the real Hak Ip.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17117.msg216973#msg216973
Simon

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2020, 12:17:35 AM »
Hereís the thread which pictures comparing Sweetheart and Hak Ip. The link also has a link to another thread where I posted pictures of the real Hak Ip.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17117.msg216973#msg216973
Simon


Where can I get a sweetheart like yours? That makes huge fruits? I donít want to get a mislabeled one

Seanny

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2020, 12:22:16 AM »
What's wrong with Champa?

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2020, 12:24:39 AM »
What's wrong with Champa?
Is that one legit?

Seanny

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2020, 12:36:23 AM »

They buy truck loads from FL.

Mike T

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2020, 04:19:20 AM »
I will tell you what is wrong with chacapat or chakrapad as I would spell it. They may be whoppers averaging a hefty 35g but they are too sour and are rated poor by most evaluations.By contrast haak yip is clearly superior in taste and flash yield but averages under 25g. Ohia is haak yip and to add to the confusion many of the similar souey tung are incorrectly labelled as haak yip.42 varieties were evaluated at a state government facility in my area at Mareeba in the 1970s and 80s and very few passed their final exams.
Test a few lychees on the scale and see what a monster 40g is and haak yip should be no where near that. I believe the Brewster being shan chi error has not landed with Brewster being correctly identified still.
I think it has been lychee overload for some and you're getting sick of me rambling.

Mike T

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2020, 04:35:37 AM »
http://rfcarchives.org.au/Next/Fruits/Litchi/LycheeCultivars11-93.htm
One more thing. Most lychee areas (1000 miles north to south) had comparative evaluations of types here such as the one for warmer types for the Atherton Tablelands in the link and I would imagine similar evaluation would be around in Florida, southern Queensland and California even if old and dated. New glamorous types are omitted sure but getting varieties identified correctly is important. Popular types like haak yip and tai so have not been one standard thing for over 50 years.

Mike T

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2020, 05:01:46 AM »
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-24/super-variety-lychee-trial-underway-in-queensland/11635614
And one thing more. Optimism is high for another round of heavyweight contenders in the lychee realm with Taiwanese/Australian cooperation  in trialling new types.

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2020, 11:08:49 PM »
Mike, Iíll never get tired of anything regarding lychees. I agree that there is a wide range of flavors for Lychees. Some like the American Brewster is very fragrant with a strong Lychee/Rose scent and taste. Bosworth 3/Kwai Mai Pink is very sweet but only has mild Lychee taste. No Mai Tsze has a texture that traps the juice in the flesh until you chew it and has a completely different taste than the above mentioned. It has some lychee/rose taste and scent but it has a musky, kind of like Sake(Rice wine) taste in the back of your mouth. It doesnít sound appetizing but once you try it, youíll know what Iím talking about.

Texture has a lot to do with the overall enjoyment factor when eating lychees. Sweetheart/FZS and Brewster are very soft fleshed and leak juice like a punctured water ballon. Sweetheart/FZS sometimes gets that strong tannin taste depending on the terroir.

Simon

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2020, 11:14:40 PM »
Hereís the thread which pictures comparing Sweetheart and Hak Ip. The link also has a link to another thread where I posted pictures of the real Hak Ip.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17117.msg216973#msg216973
Simon


Simon,
Thank you for this. You put a lot of work into tracking everything down. Your dad sounds like an amazing resource. I am going to see if I can find some more posts regarding lychee identification.

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2020, 12:00:04 AM »
http://rfcarchives.org.au/Next/Fruits/Litchi/LycheeCultivars11-93.htm
One more thing. Most lychee areas (1000 miles north to south) had comparative evaluations of types here such as the one for warmer types for the Atherton Tablelands in the link and I would imagine similar evaluation would be around in Florida, southern Queensland and California even if old and dated. New glamorous types are omitted sure but getting varieties identified correctly is important. Popular types like haak yip and tai so have not been one standard thing for over 50 years.


Thanks Mike,
That is an awesome list. Like Simon, I am always interested to hear what you think about lychees (and other fruits). I was surprised to see that Emperor/Chakrapad was rated so poorly on taste and quality in Australia as it is one of my favorite varieties. I think ours must have been sweeter than 16 brix. I know that a grower from south Florida told us that ours were way better than what they were getting down there. Maybe its a soil thing?

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Re: Concerning length of seedling lychee juvenile period (Australian study)
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2020, 01:01:29 AM »
Simon to describe and elementwise the flavours like rose water, must etc and then rate would be hard. A seasoned campaigner will know to pull the stem at an angle to allow clean skin removal without membrane remaining or juice from ruptured flesh. The challenge then is to quickly lift a lip of flesh and tear down or unfurl without losing juice alternatively just eat the whole peeled fruit.
The link was just to the Atherton Tableland evaluations at one facility on basaltic krasnozem soil. Might turn out differently in other places but not radically I think. Most varieties have a few selection so that can account for a bit of the variation but not too much.

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Hey Galatians,

Can you post some pics of your emperor seedlingís leaves? Thanks

Joe

Joe here are some pictures of the Emperor seedling comparing it with an airlayered Emperor that was planted right next to it about the same time.

Top is the Emperor seedling


This is an air layered Emperor 20' away.


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New growth on seedling tree


New growth on air layered tree


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Leaves side by side: airlayerd tree on top with the seedling below it.


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Obviously, I can't get pictures of the fruit right now, but it was just like Emperor. This was the second year in a row that the tree has fruited. My dad and I had a discussion about how old the tree was when it first fruited. I said it was 6, but he said it was 5. The only difference I see is that the seedling has a 2' trunk that the airlayered tree does not have. I presume that this is the result of the seedling's juvenile phase.

 

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