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Author Topic: Pickering's Charge  (Read 557 times)

TNAndy

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Pickering's Charge
« on: November 17, 2020, 12:37:51 PM »
Well, after struggling for the last two years, my Pickering mango finally bit the dust.  It never was very healthy, yet early on it apparently spent what little strength it had on huge flowers instead of leaves.  The first year I foolishly left the flower stalk alone.  Last year I cut it off shortly after I identified that was what it was.  That didn't help.  The decline continued.

Despite a very well drained potting mix, it showed all the symptoms of root rot.  There were numerous sprouts of small leaves but the leaves all too soon dried up and fell off.  The inside container dimensions are 22 inch diameter by 14 inch soil depth.  It started with 17 inches, but it settled more than I expected.  Or maybe the pH was wrong...or not enough fertilizer....  I'm grasping at straws.

My cheap pH meter reads 7 on everything, even my azaleas, and I've added copious amounts of soil acidifier.

I don't think it's sheer incompetence on my part--my Kona coffee tree is producing cherries nicely.  I harvested a over a dozen very tasty satsuma oranges in October.  I've got green fruit hanging on my papaya.

I'd like to try for mangoes again, but I must solicit advice on the ideal potting mix and a variety of mango that is well suited for containers and cool temperatures.  My sunroom has unavoidably dipped below 50 degrees F on rare occasion.  I take my tropical fruit plants outside for the summer and bring them in over the winter.  Can you tell me the ideal pH for mango?

Pickett's...Pickering's...get it?  Maybe I'm channeling too much Dennis Miller.

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2020, 12:49:16 PM »
Looks like you live pretty near me...For my mangoes, I have had no problem with root rot no matter what mix it is in- peat/perlite, miracle grow potting soil etc. My mangoes have done well without ferts, now I do use a little 8-3-9 here and there. I would remove all flower panicles until the mango tree reaches a good size. In winter I don't water as much to avoid root rot. My trees have taken 40-45 and no damage. My mallika does well in the greenhouse and is a fairly compact grower imo. From what I have heard, pickering is a good mango to grow and stays pretty compact.
-Ryan

TNAndy

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2020, 12:57:14 PM »
Looks like you live pretty near me...For my mangoes, I have had no problem with root rot no matter what mix it is in- peat/perlite, miracle grow potting soil etc. My mangoes have done well without ferts, now I do use a little 8-3-9 here and there. I would remove all flower panicles until the mango tree reaches a good size. In winter I don't water as much to avoid root rot. My trees have taken 40-45 and no damage. My mallika does well in the greenhouse and is a fairly compact grower imo. From what I have heard, pickering is a good mango to grow and stays pretty compact.

Thanks for a quick response!

As I recall, I mixed Sta-Green regular potting mix and ground coconut coir.  Sta-Green has a lot of peat and I wanted to add something that would resist rotting away.  Maybe mangoes and coconuts are anti-companion plants?

I'm in Sevier County, probably Zone 7A, not that that matters much with a heated sunroom.

What size container do you have your mangoes in?

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2020, 01:45:38 PM »
Looks like you live pretty near me...For my mangoes, I have had no problem with root rot no matter what mix it is in- peat/perlite, miracle grow potting soil etc. My mangoes have done well without ferts, now I do use a little 8-3-9 here and there. I would remove all flower panicles until the mango tree reaches a good size. In winter I don't water as much to avoid root rot. My trees have taken 40-45 and no damage. My mallika does well in the greenhouse and is a fairly compact grower imo. From what I have heard, pickering is a good mango to grow and stays pretty compact.

Thanks for a quick response!

As I recall, I mixed Sta-Green regular potting mix and ground coconut coir.  Sta-Green has a lot of peat and I wanted to add something that would resist rotting away.  Maybe mangoes and coconuts are anti-companion plants?

I'm in Sevier County, probably Zone 7A, not that that matters much with a heated sunroom.

What size container do you have your mangoes in?
I have mallika, m-4, and nam doc mai in ground in the greenhouse. Orange Essence and fruit punch are in 3 and 5 gallon pots. I also have some lemon zest seedlings and some other seedlings.
-Ryan

skhan

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2020, 02:20:55 PM »
I'm sorry to hear you lost it.

A few questions.

What size pot was it in?
Does it have holes in the bottom?
Is the bottom touching the ground?
Also, fine Coir mixed with Potting soil alone wouldn't make it fast-draining, did you add anything extra?

I have grown many mangos in pots with no problem but I'm not an expert in that subject.
In SoFlo our PH is pretty high so I don't think it matters much

Sounds to me like an overwatering/too much water issue.
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nana7b

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2020, 08:18:39 AM »
Pickering is a great tasting mango so give it another try.

I'm in 8A and my Pickering stays in an unheated but attached garage from late October through April. This year it bloomed and set fruit while still in the garage.

It is currently in a 7 gal container with a relatively fast draining mix.  I think it helps keeping it in a smaller container so there is not much excess water, but you have to monitor and water more regularly. I was watering it twice a day during the hottest part of the summer. In the garage I water it maybe once a week.

TNAndy

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2020, 11:44:38 AM »
I'm sorry to hear you lost it.

A few questions.

What size pot was it in?
Does it have holes in the bottom?
Is the bottom touching the ground?
Also, fine Coir mixed with Potting soil alone wouldn't make it fast-draining, did you add anything extra?

I have grown many mangos in pots with no problem but I'm not an expert in that subject.
In SoFlo our PH is pretty high so I don't think it matters much

Sounds to me like an overwatering/too much water issue.

I appreciate the sympathy.

It was in about a 24 inch diameter pot with about 14 inches of soil depth.  This is about 6333 cubic inches or 3-2/3 cubic feet or a little over 27 gallons.

Yes, of course the pot has drainage holes.  I drilled 3/4 inch holes in the bottom where they could freely drain without hindrance by the base.  I lined the bottom with welded wire hardware cloth with half inch centers.  Next I put in a layer of black, non-woven, mulch cloth.  This is normally used in gardens to prevent weeds from growing through the mulch.  I use it to keep the potting mix from falling out of the drainage holes

It was off the ground.  For my large containers (18 inch diameter on up) I build a base of preservative treated "two-by" wood.  I paint the inside and bottom of this box with black Flex Seal, and the outside with regular house paint to match the color of the bricks on my house.  The purpose of the base is so I can mount casters on the bottom for ease of movement.  I have to bring all my tropical plants indoors, into my sunroom, for the winter.  As you can imagine, 27 gallons of moist soil, plus container would be unmanageable without casters.

Originally the soil depth was 16 or 17 inches, but it settled over time.  The coir was not finely ground (like peat), it was more of a course grind (like sand).  It soaked in so fast that it was impossible for water to pool on the surface.  However, both the Sta-Green and the coir do retain a lot of water.

TNAndy

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2020, 12:14:28 PM »
Pickering is a great tasting mango so give it another try.

I'm in 8A and my Pickering stays in an unheated but attached garage from late October through April. This year it bloomed and set fruit while still in the garage.

It is currently in a 7 gal container with a relatively fast draining mix.  I think it helps keeping it in a smaller container so there is not much excess water, but you have to monitor and water more regularly. I was watering it twice a day during the hottest part of the summer. In the garage I water it maybe once a week.

I certainly want to try again, but mangoes are quite expensive, and I want to do everything I can to get it right this time.

Do you have your mango in a window or under artificial light while it is in the garage?

My sunroom is also attached to the south side of my house.  (That's why I call it a sunroom rather than a greenhouse.)  I watch the weather in October and bring my plants inside during the week before the first overnight frost is predicted.

While it remains relatively warm, on sunny days I open the outer door to the porch and run the vent fan to keep it from overheating.  Once it turns cold, I open the vents of the central heat system and open the inside doors to the living room.

I have six 5,000 lumen LED shop lights hanging from the ceiling that I tend to use on cloudy days and the evenings.  They're the $20 Harbor Freight lights and I have no idea if their spectrum is usable by plants or not.  At least I can see....

TNAndy

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2020, 12:19:29 PM »
Here's a picture of my coffee tree.  It's in a 22 inch diameter pot where my mango was in something slightly larger.  The point is, you can see the base and the casters under the container.



NateTheGreat

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2020, 06:42:41 PM »
For someone who killed a mango, that's a good looking coffee! I'd start some mango seeds if I were you, especially since you mention the expense. I've never grown a mango, but I think any plant grown from seed in your own conditions (not in Florida in a different potting mix) that didn't go through the stresses of shipping is going to be tougher. 

How much and how frequently do you water? Can you take a picture of the dead rootball with potting soil knocked off? I've had a few plants die that when I pulled up had grown basically no new roots since I got it, or you might see that the roots have rotted.

TNAndy

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2020, 12:27:08 AM »
Alas, I've already tossed it.  I can report it wasn't root rot.  It took some effort to yank it out of the soil which generally isn't the case with root rot.  After I knocked the dirt off the rootstock, I noticed the trunk still had some green cambium layer where the bark was hit.  The entire upper grafted part was quite dead and that bark was, for lack of a better term, squishy.  Not wet sponge squishy, it was a dry sort of squishy.  I don't know how to describe it better than that.

nana7b

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2020, 07:37:52 AM »


>> Do you have your mango in a window or under artificial light while it is in the garage?

Yes, I do have a cheap LED shop light over it in the garage(The kind they have at Costco. Probably cost me $10-15)

Another thing I wanted to mention is to try a root pruning pot. I originally bought my tree in a 3 gal container. I up-potted it into a 5gal Rootmaker Injection Molded container. It put on a lot of growth in this container! Tripled in size in one season. Now I am looking for a 10gal root pruning container but have not found one I like. The largest Rootmaker makes is 5gal. They supposedly make a 15gal but have not seen it anywhere for sale.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2020, 08:42:29 AM »
Well, after struggling for the last two years, my Pickering mango finally bit the dust.  It never was very healthy, yet early on it apparently spent what little strength it had on huge flowers instead of leaves.

Betcha a dollar to a donut you had root problems.  When it comes to mangos I've made it a habit to blast all soil off before upcanning them.  I lost this Pickering purchased at Pine Island Nursery to girdling.  Tree set a couple of heavy crops, started to lean over and bam....  Pine Island Nursery trees seem to have their share of root issues which needed to be corrected before planting.



Collapsing:



I make up a bulk mix of 50/50 humus stuff and inorganics like vermiculite.  Not picky, whatever I have stockpiled outside and in bags.  Coir and peat will break down over time, go easy.


« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 09:00:15 AM by Mark in Texas »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2020, 08:55:42 AM »
Another thing I wanted to mention is to try a root pruning pot. I originally bought my tree in a 3 gal container. I up-potted it into a 5gal Rootmaker Injection Molded container. It put on a lot of growth in this container! Tripled in size in one season. Now I am looking for a 10gal root pruning container but have not found one I like. The largest Rootmaker makes is 5gal. They supposedly make a 15gal but have not seen it anywhere for sale.

I'm a veteran when it comes to root tip pruning systems, am using bottomless Rootbuilder now.  I'm now on my 2nd 105' roll and will be expanding "pots" come spring.  I don't like the injection molded because they require a lot of frequent watering under my conditions which can get pretty hot here in Texas.   

For 20 or so years I treated conventional black pots with Griffin's Spin-Out.  Root tip pruning is done via Cu ions at the pot walls/bottom.  It's the best.  It's also very expensive now.  MicroKote is another option.

Yes, root pruning systems is the only way to go.  Have posted this before, will make the point again.  This is a Reed that was frozen down to a stump in Jan. 2018, 18F.  Here it is pushing 3 shoots from where I stopped pruning in March.



7 months later October 28:



Triloba Tracker

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2020, 05:00:54 PM »
yep i was gonna suggest root pruning setup too

TNAndy

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2020, 06:01:58 PM »


>> Do you have your mango in a window or under artificial light while it is in the garage?

Yes, I do have a cheap LED shop light over it in the garage(The kind they have at Costco. Probably cost me $10-15)

Another thing I wanted to mention is to try a root pruning pot. I originally bought my tree in a 3 gal container. I up-potted it into a 5gal Rootmaker Injection Molded container. It put on a lot of growth in this container! Tripled in size in one season. Now I am looking for a 10gal root pruning container but have not found one I like. The largest Rootmaker makes is 5gal. They supposedly make a 15gal but have not seen it anywhere for sale.

Root pruning pot?!?  This is the very first I've ever heard of such a thing!

My mango was not ever root bound that I could tell in the post-mortem.  Usually you can tell because there will be a cylinder of roots with few to none extending outside the cylinder.
....
OK, went to the Rootmaker website, but I'm not sure how this system would apply to me.  I'm not planting a seed, I'm buying a plant that's already been grown and grafted in a nursery.

When I received my grafted Pickering Mango, I can't remember if it was bare root or not.  Either way, I put it in a 3 gallon (nominal), tall black plastic nursery pot.  I don't remember how long it stayed there, but it was long enough for the decline to start in the nursery pot.  Usually that's my signal to pot a plant up into its permanent container.  Allowing significantly more room for roots usually fixes the problem.  My mango went exactly the opposite way--the decline accelerated.

My typical practice is to put a small piece of 1/2 inch hardware "cloth" in the bottom of the 3 gallon pot.  This prevents the weed-prevent cloth from forming a seal over any of the drainage holes.  When re-potting, I pull off these things.  This usually loosens the roots at the bottom.  If any roots are root bound along the sides of the container, I pull them away from the soil and make sure they extend into the new soil as I fill up the new pot.

I definitely did not wash all the soil off the roots.  Some of the original potting mix was still clinging to the roots when I yanked it up.

I guess I could use a 3 or 5 gallon Rootmaker pot as the intermediate container...?

TNAndy

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2020, 06:05:56 PM »
Another thing I wanted to mention is to try a root pruning pot. I originally bought my tree in a 3 gal container. I up-potted it into a 5gal Rootmaker Injection Molded container. It put on a lot of growth in this container! Tripled in size in one season. Now I am looking for a 10gal root pruning container but have not found one I like. The largest Rootmaker makes is 5gal. They supposedly make a 15gal but have not seen it anywhere for sale.

I'm a veteran when it comes to root tip pruning systems, am using bottomless Rootbuilder now.  I'm now on my 2nd 105' roll and will be expanding "pots" come spring.  I don't like the injection molded because they require a lot of frequent watering under my conditions which can get pretty hot here in Texas.   

For 20 or so years I treated conventional black pots with Griffin's Spin-Out.  Root tip pruning is done via Cu ions at the pot walls/bottom.  It's the best.  It's also very expensive now.  MicroKote is another option.

Yes, root pruning systems is the only way to go.  Have posted this before, will make the point again.  This is a Reed that was frozen down to a stump in Jan. 2018, 18F.  Here it is pushing 3 shoots from where I stopped pruning in March.



7 months later October 28:



Would you please give me a link or links to the root pruning system or chemical or whatever it is you are using?

That is a beautiful tree!
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 06:08:27 PM by TNAndy »

Orkine

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2020, 06:14:37 PM »
There is a post somewhere here about how to make your own spinout with some paint and copper hydroxide.
I have used Microkote and I think it is a good product, over priced but good.  I decided to try to make mine some time ago, the results are not in yet.

I will also suggest you try another pickering, its a good mango and great for your purpose.  It can stay small and be productive.

Don't forget sand in your soil mix.  Someone here, one of the mango experts I seem to recall uses 50% sand in their mix.


Here is the link to the post with the instructions.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3239.0
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 06:19:00 PM by Orkine »


weiss613

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Re: Pickering's Charge
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2020, 02:11:27 PM »
Tooooooo much complicated advice here over the death of a potted mango tree. We cause our own problems in our own lives 95% of the time whether it be sickness or relationships or any other problem. Same goes for growing mangoes in a pot.
Here is an example. I’ve been growing 270 mango trees for 20 years. I’ve had lots in pots for various times prior to being planted. Over the years I must have removed and replanted 40 mango trees. Why? Because I “thought” that they had fungus infections that were stymying their growth with dieback and fungus looking leaves.
Took me all those years to realize that I was causing this with my obsession with spraying weed and grass killer around the bases of my trees to make everything look “perfect”
Took 20 years to figure it out so now you know how such a simple dumb thing a person can do to kill what Mother Nature will keep beautiful and healthy if you pretty much leave it alone.
My guess on your killing was too much fertilizer and or not enough water.
Potted trees need more water than we ever think they need. And even just a tiny bit of fertilizer will burn the heck out of a tree. If you fertilize use the lowest dilution. Maybe use a liquid fertilizer like Foliage-Pro 9-3-6. It’s a complete fertilizer with everything the tree needs.
I pushed all my mango and avocado and lychee trees to grow with this complete fertilizer and I wish you could all see the results.
So yes on this death the speculation might be a bit too much. But that’s just my guess not an opinion.  And yes do a Pickering again because no other small mango tree compares in every way.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 02:21:37 PM by weiss613 »

 

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