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Author Topic: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?  (Read 1290 times)

CherimoyaDude

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Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« on: January 23, 2021, 07:25:47 PM »
What is the best Satsuma for California (10a)?

containerman

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2021, 08:04:34 PM »
What satsuma's have you tried that you like ?

I would go with whatever one you prefer.


CherimoyaDude

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2021, 08:37:46 PM »
I've only had the ones generically labeled "Satsuma" at the store -.where can I try specific types? Which should I look for?

containerman

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2021, 10:33:49 AM »
check out your local nursery but if not usually costco . home depot or lowes will carry Owari and Okitsu. I picked up both of those varieties from costco and I've seen them at home depot.

EricSC

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2021, 01:13:48 PM »
I found the "Satsuma" taste varies a lot.    The top 2 pics below were  taken in a local Japanese store。    The looks slightly round and baggy. 

 I had similar looking "Satsuma" which I bought in other stores before.  They were baggy, ok but not very sweet, and somehow slightly dry with tough cell skins. 

But If you look the third pic which are the fruits from my home Satsuma tree.  They look much flat, sweet (likely Brix 10-11), and not baggy.   I am sure if I keep them on tree longer they will be baggy, then dry.







Millet

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2021, 03:03:25 PM »
Owari and Xie Shan both of which are top quality seedless Satsumas.  Ponkan, which contains a few seeds is among the largest
size satsuma is also excellent . 

EricSC

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2021, 01:21:26 AM »
Millet,

For Ponkan, did you have the fruit dryness problem?   it was mentioned before the fruits sometime are dry.

Eric

Laaz

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2021, 08:56:51 AM »
I have never had a dry Ponkan unless you leave it on the tree too long. The flesh is more firm than satsuma with a open center & has decent juice content.

Millet

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2021, 11:30:09 AM »
Eric, my Ponkan tree is an in ground tree, and is about 10 years old.  I have NEVER had a dry Ponkan.

sc4001992

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2021, 12:15:51 PM »
Same here, never had problem with dry fruit (no juice) of Ponkan. I have been eating my fruits from November to now, still have another dozen to eat on the tree.
I like the taste of Ponkan more than my very sweet Gold Nugget or super sweet Honey mandarin (VI-133). Right now the Ponkan is tasting better than the Shiranui/Sumo fruits. I will need to wait another month for the Shiranui, Kiyomi, Murcott, and Iyo Mikan to be fully ripe.

Tlaloc

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2021, 01:16:15 PM »
Hands down it would be the shiranui and a close second the kishu.

EricSC

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2021, 10:11:44 PM »
Tlaloc, sc4001992,Millet,and Laaz,

Thanks for your inputs, which firmed my plan to purchase the buds for grafting in coming spring.

I did get the Kiyomi grafted but it will take 2-3 years to get reasonable fruits.   But Kiyomi may not as sweet as Ponkan.

Eric

sc4001992

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2021, 10:42:25 PM »
Eric,

Yes, Kiyomi is a large fruit but not very sweet, nothing like Ponkan.

EricSC

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2021, 07:15:36 PM »
sc4001992,

I got 2 Kiyomi buds life on a rootstock.  maybe I should add Ponkan on it too.

Eric

sc4001992

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2021, 12:45:34 AM »
EricSC, Maybe I can send you a ripe Ponkan and Kiyomi for the cost of shipping if you would like to try them.
I will check the cost and send you a PM.

One nice thing about the Kiyomi tree is that branches are very sturdy and even though the fruits get large as Orange, it has no problem holding them on.
I use some of my Kiyomi branches for grafting other satsuma and intereting varieties that I want to grow fast.










EricSC

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2021, 11:40:07 PM »
sc4001992,
Sure, Lets do it.  It is very easy to transfer fund through Bank of America.
Eric

Lovetoplant

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2021, 10:47:11 PM »
EricSC, Maybe I can send you a ripe Ponkan and Kiyomi for the cost of shipping if you would like to try them.
I will check the cost and send you a PM.

One nice thing about the Kiyomi tree is that branches are very sturdy and even though the fruits get large as Orange, it has no problem holding them on.
I use some of my Kiyomi branches for grafting other satsuma and intereting varieties that I want to grow fast.











So ponkan is the sweetest among your mandarins?  Would any other tangerine be sweeter?  Thank you

sc4001992

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2021, 11:30:43 PM »
No, Ponkan is not the sweetest. Read the above post where I mention the other sweeter ones.
Just picked another Shiranui/Sumo today and the taste is getting better.

EricSC

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2021, 01:12:34 AM »
sc4001992,

Will be interested to hear your Iyo Mikan description.    I remember someone mentioned Iyo Mikan has unique flavor/taste but not every one likes.

containerman

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2021, 10:49:11 AM »
I have 2 more dekopon fruit I'm leaving on the tree until March. I'm doing the same with my Shasta and Tahoe Golds, my Tango's and then comparing them with my Gold Nuggets side by side in March.

sc4001992

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2021, 03:29:47 PM »
Containerman,

I have not tried to wait until March, seems to late for me here.
I would be worried about the taste of your Gold Nuggets in March, it might be getting overripe. Will be interested in hearing the results of the taste of that one. I usually eat my mandarins all by Feb.

I'm planning to eat my Shiranui/sumo fruits all on Feb 22. I'll let a few Ponkan, Honey (CA), Murcott, Shasta, Kiyomi, Iyo Mikan, and Gold Nugget hang until first week of March just to see how they taste as well.

EricSC

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2021, 05:30:27 PM »
sc4001992,
In 2020 I started to pick Gold nugget in March, and end in May, the sweetness increased with time with no obvious overripe or texture or dryness changes.  Probably because I left the fruits on tree too long, the tree didn't get much flowers in 2020 spring.

Will be interested to hear your comparison for Sumo, Ponkan, Honey (CA), Murcott, Shasta, Kiyomi, Iyo Mikan, and Gold Nugget.

Eric

Lovetoplant

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2021, 08:15:02 PM »
sc4001992

You mentioned that you have Honey(ca).   Is it California honey tangerine tree?  I have a semi-dwarf cal honey growing in my yard roughly 25 years purchased from Green Thumb Nursery.   It's fruits are tiny(2.5-3" at most), seedy, hard to peel skin and quite acidic to taste. 
If yours is Cal Honey,  are the fruits shared same characteristics like mine?

Oh another thing, I love the taste of Florida honey(Murcott) tangerine, very sweet.  I couldn't find any plant for sell so I saved its seeds and planted them.  They start to fruit after 8years, but didn't taste good.
TIA for sharing your opinion.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 08:28:10 PM by Lovetoplant »

sc4001992

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2021, 01:02:33 AM »
Yes, the CA Honey is as you describe for the size of the fruit and its hard to peel, has many seeds. But my fruits tastes better than what you describe. It does have acid taste but also super sweet so I like it. My tree is old, 15yrs.

I just did another fruit tasting again tonight so you can look over my taste rating, best tasting is #1, worst is #6
1) Gold Nugget
2) Honey (CA)-many seeds
3) Kiyomi
4) Iyo Mikan
5) Murcott (there are 2 varieties I grow)- First type has very dark orange skin, easy to peel. Second tyoe is yellow skin, super thin, sticks to flesh. This second one tastes much better than the first one.
6) Washington Sanguine Blood Orange (VI-521) - flesh does not turn color, looks like a valencia.

After this tasting, I plan to get rid of the Iyo Mikan grafts (over 4yrs old) and Washington Sanguine (8yrs old).








« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 01:45:42 AM by sc4001992 »

EricSC

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2021, 01:20:02 AM »
sc4001992,

So guess Sumo will be 1+, and Ponkan will be 1-?  Satsuma will be 3+?

containerman

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2021, 09:36:15 AM »
sc4001992,

So guess Sumo will be 1+, and Ponkan will be 1-?  Satsuma will be 3+?

I've had my Gold Nuggets in March but they are usually gone by then but I've tasted some of my friends who has a orchard in May and they were delicious. I've heard they hold well into as late as July.

Millet

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2021, 11:36:52 AM »
If the gage of which citrus taste the best, is determined by total wins in citrus taste contests, then it would be Xie Shan.

sc4001992

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2021, 09:38:16 AM »
Millet, I hope so since I'm grafting a lot of Xie Shan so when I eat it and it tastes great I want plenty to share with family and friends. Still waiting for my first fruit, grafts are less than 1 yr old.

containerman

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2021, 11:20:11 AM »
If the gage of which citrus taste the best, is determined by total wins in citrus taste contests, then it would be Xie Shan.
I have also read that Okitsu has been a winner in the recent past have you read that too ?

This article was from 2014 below

https://www.fruitmentor.com/okitsu-wase-satsuma#:~:text=In%20a%20November%202014%20citrus,also%20noted%20its%20fragrant%20skin.

sc4001992

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2021, 11:42:21 AM »
I hear/read a few different reviews, some people say it tastes good, others say its average.
I'm pretty sure I grafted/fruited both the Okitsu wase(VI-389) and Miyagawa(VI-612) but it was a while ago and if I liked the taste it would still be on my trees. I didn't find any of my old grafts of either so if I remember correctly, the fruits looked like the photos in citrus variety collection and it was bland, not much sweetness, similar to all those China Satsuma on their list so I got rid of the branches.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 03:17:54 PM by sc4001992 »

containerman

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2021, 11:51:56 AM »
I hear/read a few different reviews, some people say it tastes good, others say its average.
I'm pretty sure I grafted/fruited both the Okitsu wase(389) and Miyagawa(612) but it was a while ago and if I liked the taste it would still be on my trees. I didn't find any of my old grafts of either so if I remember correctly, the fruits looked like the photos in citrus variety collection and it was bland, not much sweetness, similar to all those China Satsuma on their list so I got rid of the branches.

My okitsu's are really good tasting and I had everyone sample 5 different varieties of mandarins on Christman day and the okitsu won hands down.

sc4001992

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2021, 03:26:11 PM »
Yes, I read that from your reviews. What was the other mandarin varieties that you tasted?
Your environment may be better than mine for the Okitsu. Next time I order more scions, I will need to try the Okitsu again.

I do notice that the taste of some satsumas get much better (sweeter) when you leave the fruit ripe on the tree longer, I may have been tasting mine to soon. My brother has many satsumas trees as well and he just leaves his fruit ripe on the tree. It stays ripe for  a few months and gets sweeter than mine. I don't care for the fruit when the flesh gets to soft even though it is sweeter.

containerman

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2021, 03:59:27 PM »
Yes, I read that from your reviews. What was the other mandarin varieties that you tasted?
Your environment may be better than mine for the Okitsu. Next time I order more scions, I will need to try the Okitsu again.

I do notice that the taste of some satsumas get much better (sweeter) when you leave the fruit ripe on the tree longer, I may have been tasting mine to soon. My brother has many satsumas trees as well and he just leaves his fruit ripe on the tree. It stays ripe for  a few months and gets sweeter than mine. I don't care for the fruit when the flesh gets to soft even though it is sweeter.
My okitsu's taste great at Thanksgiving and never last much past that time but I'm sure they would taste even better in December. I usually eat my Owari's around Christmas time. And yes they do get better over time as true with most mandarins.

sc4001992

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2021, 06:51:35 PM »
I couldn't wait any longer to taste my last mandarins so I picked them on 2/14. Now I only have 2 sumo fruits left on the tree.

The last fruits I had hanging on the trees that are ripe are Sumo, Ponkan, Honey, Tango, Gold Nugget.
I did the fruit tasting today with my family again here's my taste rating, best tasting is #1, worst is #5

1) Sumo/Shiranui
2) Gold Nugget
3) Ponkan
4) Honey
5) Tango

Sumo really improve in taste since December and January testing. Now in Feb it seems to have the best taste as described of store bought fruits where it is very sweet tasting, different from other mandarin tastes that are just very sweet. Until I get fruits on my Xie Shan, Sumo seems to be the top one.
--------

To sum up the fruit tasting off my trees for the season, here's my favorite showing the best #1 and the others.
1) Sumo/Shiranui
2) Gold Nugget
3) Ponkan
4) Honey (CA)-many seeds



« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 04:54:08 AM by sc4001992 »

brian

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2021, 08:17:20 PM »
I'm digging up my Tango tree and replacing it with the Shasta Gold mandarin I have in a container.  Tango is good, but this is better.

I am still on the fence about Sumo.  I'm going to give it another year and see.   My current crop was good but not amazing.

sc4001992

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2021, 09:53:52 PM »
Yup, I will keep the Tango graft on the tree but it only tastes average.
I have a recently purchased (last year) Shasta Gold which is still in 5 gal that had 4 fruits and it tasted better than the 3yr old grafted Tango which fruits every year.

The Sumo/Shiranui graft in the photos is 3-1/2 yrs old now. It started fruiting by the second year (12 fruits) and the fruit does taste the best in mid-Feb even though it shows ripe colors by early December. In 2020 there were 14 fruits on the grafted branch. In fact the branch with fruits was too heavy and it started to crack in half so I had to repair it by putting a post to hold up the weight. If you look at my 2/15/21 photo, on the left is a 2inch diameter dead mulberry branch I used to prop it up, and to the left of the big funny looking fruit is a leather strap to hold the grafted branch from moving.



Malhar

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2021, 12:07:05 AM »
I recently found Shasta Gold and Sumo at local Sprouts. To my taste buds, Sumo was better than Shasta.  Sumo had a very balanced mix of sweetness and acidity and was quite flavorful.

brian

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2021, 11:29:31 AM »
Yeah, Sumo has such a good reputation I want to give it a while before I decide it isn't fantastic.  Could just be a bad crop due to conditions.

Same with Xie Shan.  The Xie Shan fruit I've grown so far weren't amazing, but the tree hasn't been super healthy either.  I am going to give it a few years and see.

My tango was extremely healthy and fruitful, and it was just what I expected, but I was blown away by the very first Shasta Gold crop I had

EricSC

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2021, 08:19:16 PM »
brian,

Tango was mentioned as similar as Gold Nugget.  Can you give it a description such as:
size, sweetness, flavor, tangy, zing, easy to peel, seeds, cell toughness, more?

brian

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2021, 09:33:59 PM »
Tango is one of the common mandarins sold as "cuties" or "halo" and grocery stores across the country.  It is very slightly pumpkin shaped and less round than the spherical "clementine" type that is also sold under this name.  As far as mandarins go, I don't think Gold Nugget is all that similar to Tango at all.  I've had some good Gold Nuggets from grocery stores, and some good ones from my tree, but overall they tend to be too puffy and over-sweet/not-sour-enough in my experience.

Tango is usually totally seedless, thin skinned, easy peel, sweet with a bit of sour and tasty.  It is a great variety!  But shasta gold is simply better in my opinion :)

Shasta gold has more cell toughness (flesh firmness), which I like.  The rind is a bit thicker but easier to peel in my limited experience (I only got one Shasta crop so far and it was small).   Mix of sour and sweet.   I don't like pure sweet.

My Gold Nugget has always been a weak one.  I think it is just my tree and not the variety in general so I don't want to comment as some kind of authority
« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 09:39:38 PM by brian »

EricSC

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2021, 11:22:11 PM »
brian,

With my limited experience with gold nugget, I am with your descriptions. 

2020, I had a little more than100 gold nugget fruits, picked from March through end of May.  It is very clear that the sweetness increases with time without other deteriorations.   As you mentioned, it has a clear sweet taste and is not-sour-enough.  It does not have the "ziiiiiii" feeling but a good percent of people like it.

On the other side, we do notice that there is a good % of population who really enjoy the sour taste.  Clearly these two group of peoples will have different preferences and descriptions.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 10:44:18 PM by EricSC »

mbmango

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2021, 07:17:55 PM »
I like Gold Nugget at our location since we don't get a lot of heat, but it can still get sweet enough for us.  Kishus similarly also work well for us.  I'm curious how Shiranui will taste when I eventually fruit it, but probably another 2 years.  I've tried Honey mandarin which comes out bland, and Cara Cara and Moro are way more tart than what I can buy. 

sc4001992

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Re: Best Satsuma variety for Southern California?
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2021, 05:10:47 AM »
mbmango, you must not have tasted the real Honey (CA) mandarin, VI-133. I think there are three types that were at one time called honey mandarin/tangerine so it could get confusing. I grow all three types. You can get the details of the varieties from the CCPP budwood website.

1.Honey mandarin, VI-133
2.Murcott mandarin (FL Honey), VI-147
3.W. Murcott Afourer, VI-462

If the fruit you tasted was not small with many seeds, then it sounds like you ate the W. Murcott Afourer, VI-462. This fruit is medium size, skin is bright orange, peels easy and flesh is juicy but taste is bland. Of the three, this is the one I like the least. The other two are very good, I rank it as shown, they are sweet & tart. I keep a graft of the VI-462 just to have the variety for comparison of tastes. My tree has been in ground for over 7yrs and the taste of this fruit has not changed.

You will like the taste of Shiranui fruit, it should have fruits in 2 years, but the excellent taste may not show up until year 3. At least for me that is how its been. Now my tree has very good tasting fruits so I ended up grafting a lot more Shiranui on my trees. Also, don't pick the ripe fruit until Feb to get the best taste.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 05:16:09 AM by sc4001992 »

 

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