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Author Topic: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous  (Read 272999 times)

bovine421

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1425 on: October 25, 2020, 08:17:17 PM »
What gallon size tree would you recommend that I get. What is the point of diminishing returns? With mangoes I feel anything over 15 gallons is counterproductive. I found a 25 gallon red but would need a go fund me page.lol
Seriously I could do that if I could justify it in my mind because I've never ever paid that much for any tree.
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W.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1426 on: October 25, 2020, 11:11:31 PM »
Jaboticaba grower James Farwell claims that Plinia cauliflora (Otto Andersen) Açu Paulista fruits in four years. I have never heard Adam Shafran mention that it is that precocious only that it is difficult to keep alive due to being very particular about its pH requirements. I have never had a problem growing it, since I water all my jaboticabas exclusively with harvested rainwater. Mine are growing at such a slow rate that I find it difficult to believe they will fruit in four years, unless they fruit at a small size. Farwell also claims that a couple of varieties he sells called Plinia phitrantha “Giant Red Crystal” and Plinia Phitrantha “Red Lantern” fruit in four years, but I understand that these are very recent introductions to the US and not many growers here have much of a track record growing them. They are out of my plant buying price range, as well.

Kevin Jones

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1427 on: October 26, 2020, 12:25:53 AM »
I use good old Tuscaloosa municipal water on a daily basis and have never had any issues.

Kevin Jones

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1428 on: October 26, 2020, 01:04:28 AM »
I use good old Tuscaloosa municipal water on a daily basis and have never had any issues.

Kevin Jones

My municipal water is quite hard, and I have seen the mineral build-up on my clay pots from even relatively short-term use. I have joked that I could bludgeon someone to death by pouring a couple of glasses of water on them.

Kevin Jones

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1429 on: October 26, 2020, 10:03:58 AM »
They use calcium to neutralize the naturally acidic water. What is basically industrial bleach to help sanitize it and fluoride of course.
Our water source is from Lake Tuscaloosa.

Kevin Jones


bovine421

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1430 on: October 27, 2020, 06:27:50 AM »
The purple or black seems very abundant on Facebook Marketplace. I found a 15 gallon at a reasonable price so I may compromise and get the 15 gallon black and a 3-gallon red. How far apart should I space them?

I will also get a couple of muscadine grape vines which are cheap and let them climb my moringa tree.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 06:30:34 AM by bovine421 »
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achetadomestica

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1431 on: October 27, 2020, 06:07:35 PM »
Jaboticaba grower James Farwell claims that Plinia cauliflora (Otto Andersen) Açu Paulista fruits in four years. I have never heard Adam Shafran mention that it is that precocious only that it is difficult to keep alive due to being very particular about its pH requirements. I have never had a problem growing it, since I water all my jaboticabas exclusively with harvested rainwater. Mine are growing at such a slow rate that I find it difficult to believe they will fruit in four years, unless they fruit at a small size. Farwell also claims that a couple of varieties he sells called Plinia phitrantha “Giant Red Crystal” and Plinia Phitrantha “Red Lantern” fruit in four years, but I understand that these are very recent introductions to the US and not many growers here have much of a track record growing them. They are out of my plant buying price range, as well.

I have personally visited James Farwell and saw his amazing collection.
James is very knowledgeable and came across as honest to me. He has
a wonderful family and I appreciated the time he took to show me around
on a very hectic day. I got a couple wonderful trees from him also. I have met
allot of interesting plant people thanks to this forum and he is one of them!


 
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 08:52:24 PM by achetadomestica »

W.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1432 on: October 27, 2020, 08:25:58 PM »
Jaboticaba grower James Farwell claims that Plinia cauliflora (Otto Andersen) Açu Paulista fruits in four years. I have never heard Adam Shafran mention that it is that precocious only that it is difficult to keep alive due to being very particular about its pH requirements. I have never had a problem growing it, since I water all my jaboticabas exclusively with harvested rainwater. Mine are growing at such a slow rate that I find it difficult to believe they will fruit in four years, unless they fruit at a small size. Farwell also claims that a couple of varieties he sells called Plinia phitrantha “Giant Red Crystal” and Plinia Phitrantha “Red Lantern” fruit in four years, but I understand that these are very recent introductions to the US and not many growers here have much of a track record growing them. They are out of my plant buying price range, as well.

I have personally visited James Farwell and saw his amazing collection.
James is very knowledgeable and came across as honest to me. He has
a wonderful family and I appreciated the time he took to show me around
on a very hectic day. I got a couple wonderful trees from him also. I have met
allot of interesting plant people thanks to this forum and he is one of them!

Now do you think I am honest?

Yes, I do think you are honest. I have bought from you in the past and been satisfied. So, I do not understand where your reply is coming from. I simply stated that Mr. Farwell claims that a few varieties, Açu Paulista, Giant Red Crystal, and Red Lantern, fruit quickly, in four years, in response to another user, bovine421, asking about precocious varieties. This is something which I have been researching myself as I grow my own jaboticaba collection. I know what Mr. Farwell has written about these varieties because I am currently bidding on some of his auctions (the ones in my jaboticaba buying budget), so I think so much of him that I am willing to spend money to buy his plants. My point is that I have never seen anyone else say that Açu Paulista fruits so quickly, and it is supposedly difficult to grow (information which comes from another forum member with extensive knowledge of jaboticabas, Adam Shafran), and it is growing slower than other jaboticaba varieties I have (both relatively precocious varieties and ones that take a while to fruit). Also, that Giant Red Crystal and Red Lantern are recent introductions to the US and few growers here seem to have any experience fruiting them. So this is all new information on new varieties of jaboticabas which Mr. Farwell is bringing to the attention of the wider jaboticaba collecting community. I did not write any of this with the intent to impugn James Farwell or question his honesty, and I do not believe my statement did so. While I am not acquainted with Mr. Farwell, I have met other interesting people on this forum; you are one of them, and I do not go out of my way to come into conflict with any of them.

achetadomestica

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1433 on: October 27, 2020, 08:51:59 PM »
There also is allot of confusion with common names. I was told there are 8-9 different types
that have been dubbed Otto Anderson that were part of his collection. Another thing I have read
is if the Brazilians say it takes 4-6 years to fruit add 50% because they are growing the trees under optimal
conditions where the trees originated? I imported some Acu paulista seeds and the seedlings look
different then the next batch of Acu seeds I imported and raised. It's easy to see why there is confusion.
Is the Novak P cauliflora different then the Otto Anderson P cauliflora etc.


« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 09:09:55 PM by achetadomestica »

W.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1434 on: October 28, 2020, 12:09:52 AM »
There also is allot of confusion with common names. I was told there are 8-9 different types
that have been dubbed Otto Anderson that were part of his collection. Another thing I have read
is if the Brazilians say it takes 4-6 years to fruit add 50% because they are growing the trees under optimal
conditions where the trees originated? I imported some Acu paulista seeds and the seedlings look
different then the next batch of Acu seeds I imported and raised. It's easy to see why there is confusion.
Is the Novak P cauliflora different then the Otto Anderson P cauliflora etc.


Otto Andersen created around a dozen varieties, according to Adam, but the Portuguese-English language barrier has meant that the various Otto Andersens have been mixed up at various times. Even Adam had a problem with them for a while; I found a post on the forum (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=29049.msg328660#msg328660) where he told everyone that the Açu Paulistas he had been selling were actually Branca-Vinhos.

I am more confused about references to Branca-Vinho and Branca. Both are supposed to be phitrantha varieties, but photographs I have seen of Branca-Vinho are of purple fruit, even though the variety name translates to "white wine" from Portuguese. That does not make much sense. So, are Branca-Vinho and Branca actually two different varieties?

NateTheGreat

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1435 on: October 28, 2020, 12:16:01 PM »
Some of these don't come true to seed as well. Adam has four Sapucaia seedlings that each look completely different. The "Sanford phitrantha" is a seedling of aureana, as is the "suspected AxP" being sold for big bucks on eBay. Many people have reported getting what appear to be phitranthas with red fruit from aureana seeds.

I think Branca Vinho is different from Branca. Branca Vinho may be the same as Branca Vinho Jumbo, which may be the same as Jumbo. The Brazilian fruits book says Jumbo is a selection of the Zona da Mata matrix, whatever that means. Zona da Mata is an aureana variety, but also a region in Brazil. Phitrantha Branca looks an awful lot like Aureana to me, but I've only seen pictures.

Red jaboticabas come up weird sometimes too. I'm suspicious of these supposed red x ____ hybrids.

People claim red is sabara x aureana. Is there any evidence for this? Any evidence that escarlate is red x aureana? Any evidence that sabara can even produce hybrids?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 10:49:38 PM by NateTheGreat »

TnTrobbie

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1436 on: October 28, 2020, 09:11:53 PM »
Noticed today that my Myrciaria glazioviana is flowering for the first time :D. Its in a half way filled 15gal pot, all shade, and about 2.5 ft tall. I got it from Adam 3-4 yrs ago. My Stringipes is also flowering. 1.5ft  foot tall in a 7gal pot full shade. So excited. :D.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 09:39:20 PM by TnTrobbie »
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No where to plant it...but atleast I got it. ;)
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achetadomestica

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1437 on: October 29, 2020, 12:58:33 PM »
Noticed today that my Myrciaria glazioviana is flowering for the first time :D. Its in a half way filled 15gal pot, all shade, and about 2.5 ft tall. I got it from Adam 3-4 yrs ago. My Stringipes is also flowering. 1.5ft  foot tall in a 7gal pot full shade. So excited. :D.

How old is the M strigipes? Could you take a few pictures if convenient?
I hope the fruit sets and you tell us the contrast if there is any

bovine421

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1438 on: October 29, 2020, 07:35:47 PM »
I copied and pasted this off a website. Is this information as far as cold hardiness somewhat accurate?

Jaboticaba
Botanical name:    Myrciaria cauliflora
Family:    Myrtaceae
Avg Height X Width:    18' x 12'
Origin:    Brazil
Season:    Winter, Spring & throughout the year.
Damage temp:    

25-27 F

Jaboticaba Tree in a 3 Gallon Container. The jaboticaba forms a small bushy tree that has multiple ornate stems. The fruit are grape-like with a thick skin & melting pulp. They are eaten as fresh fruit, in jams and in wine. They can be frozen whole to enjoy throughout the year. Because the fruit occurs on the old growth it is best never to prune them. They are especially cold hardy plants, and they like a lot of water. Fruit throughout the year. Used commerically in a Jelly made by Smuckers.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 07:38:12 PM by bovine421 »
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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1439 on: October 30, 2020, 11:20:38 PM »
All I will add to this conversation is that when I asked Ray Bayer if he could only grow one variety of Plinia, he said "Sabara".   

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1440 on: November 09, 2020, 10:00:30 PM »
Must admit that I am an old Jabo addict.  Started about 20 years ago and now suffering from lack of space.  Whoever buys this place later on, better love fruit, especially jabos of different colours. 

Bush2Beach

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1441 on: November 10, 2020, 12:48:51 PM »
Phitrantha Branca leaves are fatter and rounder by the stem than Aureana.
Theres BRanca Mel too, Branca just means white
I have Reds from 5+ different sources and the diversity is pretty astounding , I agree so many possible hybrids. More are coming into fruition so time to compare frootz.
Pretty sure Escalate is Red x White.
White is definitely a parent of Red but is the other parent Sabara? Good question. I kinda doubt it with the precociousness of Red and the slow to fruit White and Sabara.

[


quote author=NateTheGreat link=topic=4238.msg408502#msg408502 date=1603901761]
Some of these don't come true to seed as well. Adam has four Sapucaia seedlings that each look completely different. The "Sanford phitrantha" is a seedling of aureana, as is the "suspected AxP" being sold for big bucks on eBay. Many people have reported getting what appear to be phitranthas with red fruit from aureana seeds.

I think Branca Vinho is different from Branca. Branca Vinho may be the same as Branca Vinho Jumbo, which may be the same as Jumbo. The Brazilian fruits book says Jumbo is a selection of the Zona da Mata matrix, whatever that means. Zona da Mata is an aureana variety, but also a region in Brazil. Phitrantha Branca looks an awful lot like Aureana to me, but I've only seen pictures.

Red jaboticabas come up weird sometimes too. I'm suspicious of these supposed red x ____ hybrids.

People claim red is sabara x aureana. Is there any evidence for this? Any evidence that escarlate is red x aureana? Any evidence that sabara can even produce hybrids?
[/quote]

tanquinho

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1442 on: November 18, 2020, 04:16:04 PM »
Hi, I've been missing Brasil a lot recently so I picked up a jabuticaba. Its growing ok here in LA, growing new leaves pretty often; but a lot of the older leaves have started to have these brown tips. What can I do to help it?




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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1443 on: November 19, 2020, 02:42:35 PM »
Plinias are flowering (jabuticaba trees) before Winter

https://youtu.be/yRYDRCe9q0I

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1444 on: November 22, 2020, 03:58:47 PM »





My Sabara flowered and appears to have set fruit for the first time just before we had our coldest day of the year, 34f.

pinkturtle

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1445 on: November 22, 2020, 07:52:59 PM »





My Sabara flowered and appears to have set fruit for the first time just before we had our coldest day of the year, 34f.

Hi K-Rimes,

How many is your tree?  I have an 10~11 years old tree here, still not flowering.

John Travis

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1446 on: November 22, 2020, 09:06:03 PM »
Phitrantha Branca leaves are fatter and rounder by the stem than Aureana.
Theres BRanca Mel too, Branca just means white
I have Reds from 5+ different sources and the diversity is pretty astounding , I agree so many possible hybrids. More are coming into fruition so time to compare frootz.
Pretty sure Escalate is Red x White.
White is definitely a parent of Red but is the other parent Sabara? Good question. I kinda doubt it with the precociousness of Red and the slow to fruit White and Sabara.

[


quote author=NateTheGreat link=topic=4238.msg408502#msg408502 date=1603901761]
Some of these don't come true to seed as well. Adam has four Sapucaia seedlings that each look completely different. The "Sanford phitrantha" is a seedling of aureana, as is the "suspected AxP" being sold for big bucks on eBay. Many people have reported getting what appear to be phitranthas with red fruit from aureana seeds.

I think Branca Vinho is different from Branca. Branca Vinho may be the same as Branca Vinho Jumbo, which may be the same as Jumbo. The Brazilian fruits book says Jumbo is a selection of the Zona da Mata matrix, whatever that means. Zona da Mata is an aureana variety, but also a region in Brazil. Phitrantha Branca looks an awful lot like Aureana to me, but I've only seen pictures.

Red jaboticabas come up weird sometimes too. I'm suspicious of these supposed red x ____ hybrids.

People claim red is sabara x aureana. Is there any evidence for this? Any evidence that escarlate is red x aureana? Any evidence that sabara can even produce hybrids?
[/quote]

Phitrantha Branca is most definitely different from aureana.You are correct that about the leaf shapes. Also the phitrantha branca fruits are much larger and the aureana fruits are smaller but sweeter and have a thinner skin.

The red parentage as far as I know is Plinia Cauliflora X Plinia Aureana. Sabara is Plinia Jaboticaba. I have a plinia Cauliflora (Novak) and eating the fruit from it really helped me understand what each parent contributed. The Plinia Cauliflora skin thins out so much when it ripens but isn't quite as sweet as the red.
John

NateTheGreat

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1447 on: November 23, 2020, 01:03:45 PM »
Glad to have a couple of heavyweights chime in on my theories. Goes to show there is no substitute for first-hand experience. I thought Plinia jaboticaba was now just considered a synonym of P. cauliflora? It seems weird that a species would only produce nuclear seeds, more like something an F1 with fertility issues would do. The red-fruited aureana seedlings seem common enough that I feel it's a clue of something with regards to their origin.

Tanquinho that looks a bit dried out, probably from either under/overwatering or from fertilizing.

K-Rimes

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1448 on: November 23, 2020, 06:10:32 PM »





My Sabara flowered and appears to have set fruit for the first time just before we had our coldest day of the year, 34f.

Hi K-Rimes,

How many is your tree?  I have an 10~11 years old tree here, still not flowering.

It is in that realm of 10-11 years old. Have you heavily pruned yours? I did so twice last year and it seemed to help.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1449 on: November 23, 2020, 06:58:05 PM »
K-rimes how big is the trunk? I have a 6 year old sabara(from 3 gal.) that has about 1.5 inches diameter at the base and am wondering how big it needs to get to flower. I heavily pruned mine in august to expose the trunk.
-Ryan

 

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