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Author Topic: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree  (Read 1051 times)

sapote

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Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« on: February 09, 2021, 07:44:03 PM »
I planned this Maha grafted tree -- bought from Toptropical in FL --  in ground 7 yrs ago and it is only 24" tall. I finally dug it up and planted a small seedling to graft on after it having fruits. The rootstock from FL is kind of weird: Peach Cobbler and Lancetilla are 11 ft tall while Maha only 24".



hawkfish007

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2021, 08:23:33 PM »
Maha looks severely rootbound. Is that a U shaped taproot?

sapote

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2021, 03:20:13 PM »
Maha looks severely rootbound. Is that a U shaped taproot?

It's U shaped taproot -- it curved growing in the pot when young. I planed it as soon as I got the potted tree. I don't think it had root bound issue, but a very slow, and whippy branches is the main issue. Nobody want a tomato vine mango crawling on ground.

sapote

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2021, 03:23:50 PM »
The same with Iman Pasand grafted on turpentine rootstock growing in SoCal. 

Tropical Bay Area

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2021, 06:08:50 PM »
Why do you think it was so slow/unhealthy?
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Galatians522

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2021, 09:50:21 PM »
For what its worth, I worked in a citrus nursery for a short time and when we up potted our seedling rootstock we had to throw out any seedlings that had J shaped roots. I was told that they would never grow properly out in the field. It looks like this mango had that same issue.

Tropical Bay Area

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2021, 11:57:08 PM »
For what its worth, I worked in a citrus nursery for a short time and when we up potted our seedling rootstock we had to throw out any seedlings that had J shaped roots. I was told that they would never grow properly out in the field. It looks like this mango had that same issue.
Oh no my seedling has this shaped root
It does fine though
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bsbullie

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2021, 01:13:53 AM »
A couple issues, Florida rootstock in California and that location with the aidewalk/driveway and the house could very well be a major contributing factor why it never "took off" and grew.
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Seanny

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2021, 01:25:40 AM »
I thought high pH from the bricks and pavers matches Fl soil perfectly.

simon_grow

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2021, 01:37:09 PM »
It could just be that particular rootstock was not vigorous or itís because of the specific rootstock and scion influences on each other. Specifically, more vigorous scion varieties appear to pair better with the Florida Turpentine rootstock.

Just off my memory, the following varieties have done well on Florida Turpentine rootstock:
Edward, Lemon Zest, Orange Sherbet, PPK, Sweet Tart, Venus, K3, VP, ValCarrie, Harvest Moon and a bunch more of the vigorous varieties.

Often, these trees will still be very droopy so they will grow vigorously and then with each additional flush, the branches start to droop from the weight of the previous flush or bloom.

If you already have a Florida tree, just make sure you stake up the scaffolding branches pre-bloom because it is the weight of the blooms that causes the majority of the drooping.

The branches holding fruit will naturally droop and every year, a maintenance pruning to remove old dried blooms, crossing and inward pointing branches along with removal of branches dropping toward the ground will help you achieve a healthier and better shaped tree.
Simon

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2021, 11:50:01 AM »
Several good comments above.

Also, did you prune circling roots when you removed the rootball from the pot?
Har

sapote

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2021, 07:16:55 PM »
For what its worth, I worked in a citrus nursery for a short time and when we up potted our seedling rootstock we had to throw out any seedlings that had J shaped roots. I was told that they would never grow properly out in the field. It looks like this mango had that same issue.

Mango seedling has very long tap root, and so all potted seedlings will have J shape roots no if or but.

I don't think the J root is the problem, but the compatibility of scion and rootstock growing in SoCal weather causing this slow growing.

I have Maha grafted on Home Depot seedling and they grow quite vigorously.

sapote

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2021, 07:34:06 PM »
A couple issues, Florida rootstock in California and that location with the aidewalk/driveway and the house could very well be a major contributing factor why it never "took off" and grew.

For comparison, here are two other trees that were planted even closer to the house wall -- less than 6" from the wall:
1) Glenn grafted on turpentine rootstock doing very well, but I don't like the fruit taste and so top off the head and grafted Maha , Edward, and Okrung Tong on Glenn branches



2) Here is a kent seedling rootstock with Maha, Alphonso grafted on.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 07:35:51 PM by sapote »

bsbullie

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2021, 08:41:22 PM »
That is ridiculous to plant a tree that close to your house.
- Rob

sapote

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2021, 08:46:59 PM »
That is ridiculous to plant a tree that close to your house.

Believe it or not, this is how I read the advices from California Rare Fruit Growing article of how to grow mango in California, for the heat in the winter. In our climate I'm not afraid of the giant mango tree eating up my house.

I wouldn't plant a white sapote like this.

850FL

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2021, 09:22:54 PM »

Believe it or not, this is how I read the advices from California Rare Fruit Growing article of how to grow mango in California, for the heat in the winter. In our climate I'm not afraid of the giant mango tree eating up my house.

I wouldn't plant a white sapote like this.

The house heat factor in 9a or 9b might be something to consider but in 10a..? Might as well have planted soursops there and put those the mangos further out..

850FL

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2021, 09:26:59 PM »
For what its worth, I worked in a citrus nursery for a short time and when we up potted our seedling rootstock we had to throw out any seedlings that had J shaped roots. I was told that they would never grow properly out in the field. It looks like this mango had that same issue.
Say what? I was under the impression all these big citrus propagators use rooted cuttings as rootstocks for more consistency?? Sure seedling have stronger roots but less overall consistency..?

Galatians522

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2021, 10:00:41 PM »
For what its worth, I worked in a citrus nursery for a short time and when we up potted our seedling rootstock we had to throw out any seedlings that had J shaped roots. I was told that they would never grow properly out in the field. It looks like this mango had that same issue.
Say what? I was under the impression all these big citrus propagators use rooted cuttings as rootstocks for more consistency?? Sure seedling have stronger roots but less overall consistency..?

The citrus industry largely uses seedlings for rootstock unless the selected rootstock is new and there is not enough seed to go around. Part of this is because that is what growers prefer and part of it is because it requires less labor (no need to set up special mist beds). Consistency has not been an issue to my knowledge. The varieties used for rootstock are highly polyembryonic and probably have 98% or higher probability of being true to type. In addition to checking for deformed roots, we also rouged "off types." The grower I worked for has probably grown close to 1,000,000 trees by now and has a reputation for producing a quality product. I value his input highly.

sapote

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2021, 12:20:56 AM »
The house heat factor in 9a or 9b might be something to consider but in 10a..? Might as well have planted soursops there and put those the mangos further out..

I love to have a soursop but it was too cold and they all died; same for Jackfruits. I can't even have sugar apple. My sister house 55 miles away in Zip code 92704 has a larger Jackfruit, sugar apple, and a giant Royal Poinciana. I had tried and these all died in the winters.

850FL

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2021, 08:51:15 AM »
For what its worth, I worked in a citrus nursery for a short time and when we up potted our seedling rootstock we had to throw out any seedlings that had J shaped roots. I was told that they would never grow properly out in the field. It looks like this mango had that same issue.
Say what? I was under the impression all these big citrus propagators use rooted cuttings as rootstocks for more consistency?? Sure seedling have stronger roots but less overall consistency..?

The citrus industry largely uses seedlings for rootstock unless the selected rootstock is new and there is not enough seed to go around. Part of this is because that is what growers prefer and part of it is because it requires less labor (no need to set up special mist beds). Consistency has not been an issue to my knowledge. The varieties used for rootstock are highly polyembryonic and probably have 98% or higher probability of being true to type. In addition to checking for deformed roots, we also rouged "off types." The grower I worked for has probably grown close to 1,000,000 trees by now and has a reputation for producing a quality product. I value his input highly.
Wow okay thatís  quite interesting. What were these common rootstocks? Just thing like sour orange, swingler citrange/citrumellos, volkomer and rough lemons? Or am I missing something
« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 09:53:19 AM by 850FL »

850FL

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2021, 09:01:32 AM »
The house heat factor in 9a or 9b might be something to consider but in 10a..? Might as well have planted soursops there and put those the mangos further out..

I love to have a soursop but it was too cold and they all died; same for Jackfruits. I can't even have sugar apple. My sister house 55 miles away in Zip code 92704 has a larger Jackfruit, sugar apple, and a giant Royal Poinciana. I had tried and these all died in the winters.

Does it freeze very often in your 10a environment? Iíve had quite a few 1-3 gallon soursops take multiple light frosts, and not really protected much either, before they defoliated.. but didnít die (brought em inside after that).. that happened both last year and this year after 5 light frosts of 30-32.. and if I i recall correctly 10a hardly freezes at all and really nothing under 30ish? And jackfruit is consistently grown in zone 10, and itís even a few degrees hardier than soursop (which I admit start to dwindle even in the upper 30s, jackfruit and sugar apples ainít even that much of a wuss..) basically what Iím saying is this doesnít seem to add up.

850FL

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2021, 09:05:51 AM »
Also I have seen a lot of nursery saplings get strangled by their plastic grafting tape and support stake tapes. Perhaps that happened near the graft union of your lil Maha which slowed its growth way down?

Cookie Monster

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2021, 09:32:11 AM »
Yah that's really close to the house. Could cause foundation issues as the tree gets older. Planting close to the home is good for cold protection, but staying a few feet away from the foundation / walls will also protect your home.
Jeff  :-)

850FL

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2021, 10:02:16 AM »
Yah that's really close to the house. Could cause foundation issues as the tree gets older. Planting close to the home is good for cold protection, but staying a few feet away from the foundation / walls will also protect your home.

My old landscape boss build a cabin around 2 magnolias. With them sticking through the roof

Julie

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2021, 01:34:32 PM »
Yah that's really close to the house. Could cause foundation issues as the tree gets older. Planting close to the home is good for cold protection, but staying a few feet away from the foundation / walls will also protect your home.

I have a soursop planted close to my home for cold protection (2.5 feet away), of course I never thought about the foundation! Are soursop roots a problem as well?  I have a house built on a slab with no basement.

Cookie Monster

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2021, 08:11:53 PM »
The trees in the photos above look like they're a couple of inches away from the home. 2.5 feet for a soursop? I think you're fine. Those trees aren't very aggressive.

Yah that's really close to the house. Could cause foundation issues as the tree gets older. Planting close to the home is good for cold protection, but staying a few feet away from the foundation / walls will also protect your home.

I have a soursop planted close to my home for cold protection (2.5 feet away), of course I never thought about the foundation! Are soursop roots a problem as well?  I have a house built on a slab with no basement.
Jeff  :-)

Galatians522

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2021, 09:09:29 PM »
For what its worth, I worked in a citrus nursery for a short time and when we up potted our seedling rootstock we had to throw out any seedlings that had J shaped roots. I was told that they would never grow properly out in the field. It looks like this mango had that same issue.
Say what? I was under the impression all these big citrus propagators use rooted cuttings as rootstocks for more consistency?? Sure seedling have stronger roots but less overall consistency..?

The citrus industry largely uses seedlings for rootstock unless the selected rootstock is new and there is not enough seed to go around. Part of this is because that is what growers prefer and part of it is because it requires less labor (no need to set up special mist beds). Consistency has not been an issue to my knowledge. The varieties used for rootstock are highly polyembryonic and probably have 98% or higher probability of being true to type. In addition to checking for deformed roots, we also rouged "off types." The grower I worked for has probably grown close to 1,000,000 trees by now and has a reputation for producing a quality product. I value his input highly.
Wow okay thatís  quite interesting. What were these common rootstocks? Just thing like sour orange, swingler citrange/citrumellos, volkomer and rough lemons? Or am I missing something

From what I remember the common ones were Smooth Flat Seville (basically an improved sour orange), Swingle Citrimello, Carizzo Citrange, Cleopatra Mandarin,  Volkamer Lemon, Rough Lemon, X639, and a bunch of others that I can't remember. There are dozens of new hybrid rootstocks out now in an attempt to combat greening.

Julie

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2021, 09:29:21 PM »
Ok great, thanks Cookie Monster!

Tropical Bay Area

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2021, 03:55:08 PM »
A lot of annonas in the genus annona tend to have pretty weak, small, and shallow root systems that can easily blow over in a hurricane
You chose a good spot!
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sapote

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2021, 09:15:10 PM »
Yah that's really close to the house. Could cause foundation issues as the tree gets older. Planting close to the home is good for cold protection, but staying a few feet away from the foundation / walls will also protect your home.

Hey Jeff,

I had tried to grow mango many years before and they all died after the winter. Most were graft type from FL and some were seedling by me. Don't know if the weather back then was colder or I was doing something wrong, but now I don't have this problem any more.

So I tried everything to get some good mangoes to eat, including planting them very close to the house -- 8" or less. Part of the reasons is they are along the driveway and not much space in between. Those trees in the pic are around 7 years old and the trunk are  4" or less. Mango has vertical deep roots as compare to avocado and white sapote which have more horizontal and destructive roots for the house. I don't think these trunk will touch the wall in my lifetime, and there is no moisture under the house foundation to attract the roots. Enjoy the good fruits first and deal with the tree size late as I'm lucky the only one in the whole neighborhood to have some mangoes to enjoy every year.

Tropical Bay Area

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Re: Dig up and throw away 7 yrs old grafted mango tree
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2021, 09:15:50 PM »
The house heat factor in 9a or 9b might be something to consider but in 10a..? Might as well have planted soursops there and put those the mangos further out..

I love to have a soursop but it was too cold and they all died; same for Jackfruits. I can't even have sugar apple. My sister house 55 miles away in Zip code 92704 has a larger Jackfruit, sugar apple, and a giant Royal Poinciana. I had tried and these all died in the winters.

Does it freeze very often in your 10a environment? Iíve had quite a few 1-3 gallon soursops take multiple light frosts, and not really protected much either, before they defoliated.. but didnít die (brought em inside after that).. that happened both last year and this year after 5 light frosts of 30-32.. and if I i recall correctly 10a hardly freezes at all and really nothing under 30ish? And jackfruit is consistently grown in zone 10, and itís even a few degrees hardier than soursop (which I admit start to dwindle even in the upper 30s, jackfruit and sugar apples ainít even that much of a wuss..) basically what Iím saying is this doesnít seem to add up.
Youíre right, maybe because his plants were small?
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