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Author Topic: annona rootstock  (Read 451 times)

Nyuu

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annona rootstock
« on: February 16, 2021, 09:11:54 PM »
I want to ask about rootstock I know some use the pond Apple / Annona glabra and mountain soursap / A. montana but want to ask what's the best rootstock for most Annona and why ?
 I asked cuz I know some people don't like using the pond Apple .

Galatians522

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2021, 09:23:04 PM »
I was told that Zill HPP prefers to use Cherimoya rootstock for their atemoya trees. I imagine that the best rootstock will vary by species and maybe even variety.

achetadomestica

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2021, 01:20:47 AM »
It makes most sense to use the same annona as the rootsock.
i.e. graft atemoya on atemoya and graft ilama on ilama whenever possible
There is a graph that has compatibilty of annonas in an older post if you
search,

Nyuu

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2021, 08:06:03 AM »
It makes most sense to use the same annona as the rootsock.
i.e. graft atemoya on atemoya and graft ilama on ilama whenever possible
There is a graph that has compatibilty of annonas in an older post if you
search,


But that still doesn't answer my question .
The reason why I brought up the topic is because I get a lot pond Apple seed from a friend
I was thinking of using them for two reasons .
First reason is we get quite cold here ?
Second reason is we have sometimes long drought period but also really long wet period ?
So plant may end up sitting in water for pretty long periods of time .

skhan

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2021, 10:15:12 AM »
Talking about the Atta series specifically (Cherimoya, Sugar Apple, Custard apple, llama, Poshte I think)
From the old research papers, industry practices, and even forum members' experiences, Cherimoya seems to be the most compatible. 
Sugar apple works too but it seems to impart less vigor on the trees. I haven't seen much success with Custard apple but it isn't studied much. (I would love if it worked)
Varieties differences play a role too

Pond apple does sort of work as a rootstock but we have seen long term incompatibility with various species (Atemoya, Illama, Dream)
I personally would want to sell something that requires my customer to constantly strip off suckers.
Again the variety matters here too.


One route to explore is using interstocks
ZHPP was selling San Pablo on A. Glabra, I plant one two years ago, and not one rootstock sucker emerged.
My atemoya which was planted at the same time (on pond apple) is still only two feet and suckers a lot.
We'll see how Cherilata works long on Pond apple over the next few years.
I figured recticulata interstock is worth a try

There are quite a few of us on here experimenting with annonas here so maybe we'll hear of some good news in the coming years

This is all based on South Florida conditions

« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 10:18:32 AM by skhan »
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bsbullie

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2021, 10:17:22 AM »
Not all pond apple is created equal.  For instance,  at ZHPP, they use only one specific "cultivar" of pond apple for grafting ilama.  They rest have incompatibility issues (as do other annona rootstocks they have experimented with).

I would also say different locations, ie States, may be different.  I would want Har to chime in on this subject as he has been involved in the experimenting and testing.
- Rob

skhan

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2021, 10:20:20 AM »
Not all pond apple is created equal.  For instance,  at ZHPP, they use only one specific "cultivar" of pond apple for grafting ilama.  They rest have incompatibility issues (as do other annona rootstocks they have experimented with).

I would also say different locations, ie States, may be different.  I would want Har to chime in on this subject as he has been involved in the experimenting and testing.

Yup, Har would have the most knowledge on the subject.
Would love to take a class on this stuff, lol
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Nyuu

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2021, 02:20:40 PM »
What about using double grafting pond apple as rootstock then cluster Apple as interstock lastly the Scion on top I know this was doing exclude atemoya .
I'm pretty sure I heard something about using interstock can be use  sometime grafted things together that you should not compatible with each other
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 02:22:30 PM by Nyuu »

Tropical Bay Area

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2021, 03:51:25 PM »
Attae group annonas better off using cherimoya, guanabanus annonas use mountain soursop of pond apple, Rollinia annonas just use any of those two
Keep in mind all of these are groups of annonas in the genus annona and some people put them in different genera however most people put all of these into one genus, annona
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Orkine

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2021, 10:31:28 AM »
Nyuu, I was where you are about 3 or 4 years ago and this is my finding.

Pond apple may take atemoya but in my experience it is not a good match.  You may need to graft in the high teens to get any to take and you may lose the graft in short order.  I have a tim took for a while.  I am watching to see if it comes back after it dropped leafs and dies back (not all the way to the graft) over the winter.  I am not holding out hope.

Pond apple will take guanabana, ilama and cherilata or hunucma.  I have these grafted on and so far so good.  There moy be long term incompatibility but for now they look good. 

Pond apple may also take cherimoya.  I tested extensively with many varieties and for now I have a Dr White that is serving as interstock on 3 pond apple trees. 

I think planting atemoya  or cherimoya seeds and grafting atemoya on them may be your best bet.

Good luck.

Nyuu

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2021, 05:33:11 PM »
I want to say thank you to all you guys can help me out .

Guanabanus

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2021, 09:11:14 PM »
Pond-Apple is not drought hardy.

You-all have pretty well covered the topic of this thread, already.
Har

ryanscion

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2021, 12:25:15 PM »
A word to the wise - try using the search function on the top of the landing page to search for answers to your questions. Like Har mentioned, there have been great discussions on topics in the past which offer great insight. No need to create new threads when previous threads have already been created.  ;)

CherimoyaDude

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2021, 04:59:33 PM »
Is there any consensus on the best type of cherimoya cultivar to use as rootstock? I've seen a few places say Dr White but curious if any others

Seanny

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2021, 05:51:33 PM »
There is no consensus.
We go by research.

Chaffee best in the cold.
White best in the heat.
Seedlings of Chaffee x White have both genes.

Best is seedlings above.


hammer524

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2021, 06:09:37 PM »
After trying cherimoya for the first time this week I'm gonna be on the lookout for Dr. White seeds. Thanks for the tip.

New_Jungle

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2021, 10:13:12 PM »
Here in hawaii, a lot of the old timers used pond apple rootstock, cherimoya scion, then the Atemoya on to the cherimoya for a double graft. Reason Iíve heard was there was compatibility issues with Atemoya directly on pond apple. I guess they didnít have access to those specific varieties we have now.
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Orkine

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Re: annona rootstock
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2021, 10:57:40 PM »
The old timers knew what they were doing.  They used the cherimoya as interstock and it is still being done today, and for the same reason.  As I noted in an earlier post, I tried a number of different cherimoyas and the Dr White turned out to be a good one to graft on my pond apple and to graft atemoya on to.

 

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