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Author Topic: Avocado 24/7 Thread  (Read 146728 times)

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #75 on: June 02, 2013, 03:19:33 PM »
If it is the same fruit I saw last year it was March-April. I will top work a tree in January and we'll know for sure unless some one is growing it now ans gives the information.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #76 on: June 03, 2013, 02:17:18 AM »
When Zands pointed to ECHO's avocado list, I was like, why didn't I think of that. Good thinking Zands. That's a good, informative avocado Chart list; I've been to ECHO Nursery before and bought a good deal of fruit trees from them.

Carlos appropriately focused on the Winter-Mexican avocado, also found in the same avocado ECHO Chart list that Zands pointed out.
Carlos, your observation may be correct. This may be the avocado cultivar that we've been looking for and that will fill the avocado gap for the months of February to April. As you suggest, there most likely are (many?) other fruit tree enthusiasts who have this cultivar and can share some light, once and for all, as to whether it does fill the avo. gap of Feb. to April.

As Johnb51 noticed, there is a disparity between the information about the Winter Mexican avocado cultivar given in the Chart list and the information mentioned in the text. Good observartion John. I plan to give ECHO Nursery a call tomorrow and I'll see what I can find out, about whether the Winter-Mexican avo. fruit riping season is Feb.-April or Oct.-Dec.

"If" ECHO can confirm a Winter-Mexican avocado fruit maturity of Feb.-April, the quality factor remains, as mentioned in the ECHO text: "The fruit quality is not as good as most of the other varieties we carry, thus it is not a recommended variety."

The best way to determine Winter-Mexican avocado quality, would be as Carlos mentioned, to find others who own this cultivar and have first hand knowledge/experience of it and/or, as Carlos also said, obtain a grafted cultivar (or budwood), plant it and grow it. The question would then be: is the fruit quality acceptable? But, first thing first, let's find out if fruit maturity is really Feb.-April.

Nevertheless, I can't sign off tonight before thanking and congratulating you guys, Zands, Carlos, Johnb51 ... Your help is really appreciated by myself and others for sure.
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #77 on: June 03, 2013, 08:26:41 AM »
They may be right on the quality. Usually varieties that have been around for a while don't propagate for a reason. If you talk to ECHO find out the flowering period. Since its a B flower may be a good pollinator for A.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #78 on: June 03, 2013, 08:34:23 AM »
Anyone growing (Kona) Sharwil in Florida?  It might fill that spring gap you're looking for.  I'm growing it in a greenhouse which hits 100F quite a few times and it loves it with huge glossy leaves 10 1/2" long on yet a small tree.  Here's what they say about it - "The Sharwil season in West Hawaii generally runs from December to June."  http://www.ranchoaloha.com/hawaii-sharwil-worlds-best-avocado/

Don't know if anyone caught a previous link I gave but I'd sure give Kathy or her husband a call at their nursery op.  Deep south Texas with a clime very similiar to yours.  RH is a little lower but the heat is way up there.   They are experimenting with budwood they brought back from Hawaii, Nishikawa was one of them.  http://www.riversendnursery.com/

Mark

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #79 on: June 03, 2013, 11:19:27 AM »
Some one told me they have Sharwil in the Fruit and Spice Park in Homestead.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #80 on: June 04, 2013, 02:52:38 AM »
Carlos, I just realized that I didn't call ECHO, but I will tomorrow. And, I'll make sure to ask them about the flowering period for the Winter-Mexican avocado cultivar, as you suggested. By the way, if it's called Winter-Mexican, it makes more sense that the fruit maturity period should be from Feb.-April, I guess will see.

Mark in Texas asked if anyone is growing the Sharwil (Kona) avocado cultivar in Florida. First of all, let me say that because of the contribution(s) of Mark and others alike, towards this endeavor/mission/goal, we may be at a tipping point. That is, we may find more than one quality avocado cultivar that will fill the avocado void in the winter months of Zone 10, that would be great. Now, according to the great article that Mark pointed to, it's too bad that Hawaii is not currently exporting the excellent Sharwil avocado cultivar to the mainland U.S.A. (just have some professional horticulturist(s) bring Sharwil-budwood to the mainland USA; unbelievable  >:()
But, according to the same article, there may be hope: "The Hawaii Avocado Association is working with the Hawaii Department of Agriculture and US Senator for Hawaii Dan Inouye’s office to open access for Sharwils to mainland markets." The article is dated April 18, 2011, I wonder if there's been any further progress on this. I think I might just follow your good idea and give Kathy and her husband a call, at Rivers End Nursery and see where that goes. Good job Mark, brilliant. Please keep your good research and ideas coming.

Carlos, about whether the Sharwil is planted in the Fruit and Spice Park, this past year I made an effort to study the winter behavior of all of the avocados planted there.
I ended the study when I was allowed by a F.&S.P. representative to pick off a tree, the last remaining, hanging avocado, of all the trees in the park, of the variety Lula.
This was approximately at the end of February, or the beginning of March (I think I put the exact date somewhere on this thread). And, I don't remember seeing an avocado tree labeled Sharwil. Now, of all of the avocado cultivars that they have planted there, some are not labeled, so I suppose it's possible. Anyways, I really wish the Sharwil avocado cultivar were here in the mainland USA. And, that it did fill the aocado void in South Florida's Zone 10; but you already know this.  :)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 11:56:49 PM by LEOOEL »
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #81 on: June 04, 2013, 11:04:47 PM »
I wonder if Oscar has Sharwill?
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

ScottR

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #82 on: June 04, 2013, 11:17:55 PM »
Carlos, i have Kona Sharwil, need some wood? ;D

LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #83 on: June 05, 2013, 12:32:59 AM »
Ah, Carlos, please allow/indulge/permit me to answer that question for you: " Y E S !" (I couldn't resist).

Seriously, I want to say, for the record, that Carlos is and has been an invaluable factor/force, in the search for a quality avocado cultivar that fills the avocado void in Zone 10, South Florida. No disrespect to others, your great contributions have been noted. But, without Carlos' help, in my opinion, I'm sure this endeavor would be that much more of a challenge. Personally, I consider myself, gladly, endebted to Carlos for his willful and crucial involvement/contibution/assistance/help, not only in this endeavor, but for years of playing such an important role in the progress of fruit tree propagation/development... in our South Florida area and elswhere. I am truly honored and privileged to have you, Carlos, involved in this noble collaboration. When we reach our goal (God willing), I'm sure that I'll miss all the excitement of this journey. With all due respect sir, you are a treasure. Thank you very much for everything you do.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 02:36:13 AM by LEOOEL »
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

johnb51

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #84 on: June 05, 2013, 07:42:08 AM »
(Carlos, stop blushing.)

For real though, Carlos is THE MAN--THE AVOCADO MAN!
John

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #85 on: June 05, 2013, 08:16:43 AM »
Thanks for your kind words, but some of us have in our genetic code the insatiable desire to push boundaries. When this gets done we'll find a few more.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #86 on: June 07, 2013, 12:51:02 AM »
ScottR and Intel415, both have mentioned that they have the Sharwil avocado, thank you for doing so. This is a reputable quality avocado that has a lot of promise for South Florida. And, may be a quality cultivar that can fill the winter-avocado-void that we have here.

From the information that ScottR and Intel415 have given, it looks like there's a nursery/entity in California that is propagating this cultivar.

ScottR, you put your location at Arroyo Grande, California, and that you have the Sharwil avocado. If you could please tell us more about it, like fruit production, season/time of year, quality and which nursery(ies)/entity(ies) has it, etc. it would really be appreciated. Thank you for the information, the more the merrier.

Intel415, whose given location is in Los Angeles, California, mentioned on another thread, started by Nullzero, that he also has the Sharwil. If you could also give please give your input on your experiences with this cultivar and how you came upon it, that would be great information to know. Then, we could speculate about how it would do in South Florida.

Although the Sharwil is reported to be already in the USA mainlland (California, to be specific), it's yet to be determined whether its distribution has reached Florida.
All this new information begs the question: Does anyone in Florida already have the Sharwil avocado cultivar?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 12:54:53 AM by LEOOEL »
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

ScottR

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #87 on: June 07, 2013, 10:49:16 PM »
Leooel, my tree has not fruited yet I grafted it to Mexican rootstock almost five years ago now! Growing pretty well and has taken frost 27f for 3hrs or so. I'm waiting! As far as where I obtained scion wood was Orange County CRFG scion exchange around the end of Jan. usually. I've never seen it I don't think any where in Nurseries but that doesn't mean that someone dosen't, I can't believe that someone is not propagating that variety in Ca. My location is close to the Pacific Ocean so we have cool summers, typically fog in mornings then clear in afternoons. Late Summer and early Fall are our warmest times besides weird off shore winds that can seen us into the 90F for a few days! Sorry I can't fell in more infor. for you. 

fruitlovers

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #88 on: June 07, 2013, 10:51:44 PM »
Sharwil is the main commercial variety here. I believe we're part of USA?  ::) :o
Oscar

nullzero

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #89 on: June 07, 2013, 11:41:26 PM »
I got Sharwil  as a 1 gal from a CRFG OC fruit tree stand (2 years ago) at Green Scene. So far its still small, trying to baby it along to get some growth on it.
Grow mainly fruits, vegetables, and herbs.

LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #90 on: June 08, 2013, 12:34:08 AM »
Nullzero, you're the man, thank you for the good news, please take care of that valuable, looked for, cultivar (O B One, you're our only hope). With all due respect, I'm really looking forward to learning how it behaves in our South Florida climate Zone(s). I've said it before and I'll say it again, you're the best. May you live a thousand years.
You made my day with this news, thank you.

Oscar, good point, Hawaii is an important part of the U.S.A. So, why isn't the Sharwil avocado tree commercially available in the mainland U.S.A? It seems that Sharwil scion budwood has been distributed for years to fruit tree enthusiasts. It's hard to believe that, in that time, some fruit tree nursery hasn't got its hands on it and commercialized this quality avocado cultivar.

The Following Article Sheds Some Light on Sharwil Propagation in the Mainland USA in 2006

Looking for Kona Sharwil Avocado Tree
Hello,
I discovered the Kona Sharwil avocado while searching on the web for the perfect small avocado tree to grow containerized in a greenhouse in upstate New York. Unfortunately, I have not found where one can purchase one. There was a post on this site last year by a person who had one, and I was wondering if anyone out your way knows of a nursery or farm that sells this wonderful tree or knows more about its growing habits, yield, etc. I tried responding to the thread from last year, but was told I could not respond to archived postings.
The following thread was started by Cecelia on July 21, 2006 at 1:33 pm PST
________________________________________
Source
Check with CRFG Orange Cty chapter.
The above followup was added by pitangadiego on July 21, 2006 at 8:52 pm PST.
________________________________________
 
CRFG OC
http://crfg.org/local/chapters/ca_oc.html
The above followup was added by pitangadiego on July 23, 2006 at 3:07 pm PST.
________________________________________
Thanks for the information
Thank you to pitangadiego for the great website. I'm pretty sure I can find what I am looking for now.
The above follow up was added by Cecelia on July 23, 2006 at 7:13 pm PST.
________________________________________
Sharwil Avocado
Cecelia, we are lucky around here. We have the University of Ca Riverside as well as CRFG. I got my first "Kona" Sharwil from Julie Frink, the small one you see in the pics of the prior post. It was one of her grafted trees. I brought it home and while prepping the area I was going to plant it in, I broke off a limb with the water hose. I had some seedlings ready to be grafted and I used the limb I broke off and grafted two seedlings with the limb. Those two are now larger and taller than the original plant. The other Sharwils I have came from UCR. I was granted permission to cut some scions. I cut six and they all took.
From what I have learned they are not small plants. They are an average size avocado tree. However, what I am seeing from my personal experience is that the seedling or rootstock used is what controls the size of the plant more than the grafted scion.
To give you an idea of what i mean, I have two Carmen Hass growing on Dusa II clonal rootstock. The plants are identical in size and shape they almost look like twins. I have about ten Hass all grafted on to seedlings and everyone is different in size of trunk, height, bushiness etc. I "had" four Gillogly that were grafted on to seedlings they were all different. I kept the one that I thought had the best seedling rootstock traits for future experimentation this coming spring, boy that sounds evil.
One thing I can tell you, is that Sharwil is probably one of the best tasting cados I have ever tried.
Hope any of this helped, good luck.

The above followup was added by AlexG on July 23, 2006 at 8:33 pm PST.

"Sharwil" Avocado
I hate to play the pedant, but (for those who care about such things) the name of the cultivar is just plain "Sharwil". It originated in Australia, but became popular in Hawaii. Growers (or someone) there slapped "Kona" onto the name.
Frink is the CRFG's current avocado expert, and she speaks very highly of "Sharwil". While I don't want to put words in her mouth, I get the impression that she might rank "Sharwil" as her favorite: and I'm sure that she's tasted hundreds of cultivars at the U.C. South Coast Field Station avocado groves!
Cecilia,
I don't know of any other organization that propagates and sells "Sharwil" trees *other* than the CRFG Orange County chapter. (Although such nurseries may be out there somewhere in California, or possibly Florida.) However, CRFG Orange County sells their plants at local (Southern California) plant sales; they're not a mail-order nursery.
But perhaps if you wrote them and pleaded persuasively enough, and agreed to arrange for shipping yourself, they might be willing to sell and send you a tree.
The above followup was added by Ashok on July 23, 2006 at 11:30 pm PST.
________________________________________
Thanks to all for your help
Thank you to pitangadiego, William, AlexG and Ashok for the information on Sharwils. I located one source for them in Hawaii, but they are pricey due to the cost of containerizing and shipping them so far; and they are not yet old enough to send at this time. So . . . . if anyone knows an actual merchant who sells them stateside USA, I would be most grateful to receive that information. p.s. Holidays take 18 months to ripen. Does anyone know of a tasty, easy to grow (in a container), self-pollinating, fast ripening, long season (fruits mature over a long period of months) small-dwarfish variety? I dont want much, do I?
The above followup was added by Cecelia on July 29, 2006 at 4:25 am PST.
________________________________________
Please note that you are viewing posts from the vintage Cloudforest forum.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 01:21:27 AM by LEOOEL »
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

johnb51

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #91 on: June 08, 2013, 11:56:36 AM »
I got Sharwil  as a 1 gal from a CRFG OC fruit tree stand (2 years ago) at Green Scene. So far its still small, trying to baby it along to get some growth on it.

Are you going to plant the Sharwil in Port St. Lucie?
John

fruitlovers

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #92 on: June 09, 2013, 01:54:43 AM »
The reason Sharwil is not available for purchase in continental USA is that Hawaii is not cleared to export them. USDA gives fruitfly as excuse. But as most of you probably know, avocado is not a vector for fruit fly unless the fruit has been damaged. The real reason we're not able to export avocados from here is: California Avocado Growers Association. This is a politically very influential organization and they've done everything in their power to stop any exportation from here. I guess they know we would easily put them out of business! Water here is very cheap, unlike California, and avocados grow wild here. Hawaii could grow enough avocados to easily supply the whole continental USA. They would be way better and cheaper than California avocados. It's only politics that stops this from happening.
About Kona Sharwil, yes the folks in Kona like to add their name to every crop they grow. For example, coffee becomes Kona coffee, sugarloaf pineapple becomes Kona sugarloaf. But those aren't the real names, just advertising gimmicks.
Oscar

LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #93 on: June 09, 2013, 02:39:30 AM »
Oscar, I think you've hit the nail on the head, as they say. There is definitely something wrong with this story/picture. It's upsetting and sad, when people/organizations play politics and interfere with supply and demand markets.

It seems that their political solution to the demand for Sharwil, is for those in the mainland to grow it themselves. In this way, there is a slow introduction/propagation of the cultivar, instead of a market disruptive avalanche invasion of Sharwil imports from Hawaii.

We already know that (thanks to Nullzero) the Sharwil avocado cultivar is already here in Florida (bless him for that).
Since avocado is such a popular fruit, I suppose there may be a good chance, that there are others in Florida that also have the Sharwil avocado.
If this is the case, it would really be helpful if they could come forth and comment on their location and experiences with the Sharwil avocado in Florida.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 01:36:08 AM by LEOOEL »
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

fruitlovers

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #94 on: June 09, 2013, 05:27:12 AM »
Sharwil has been around for a long time. If California Growers Association wanted to grow it they would have done so already for several decades. But their strategy is completely fixated on only one cultivar and its variants: Hass. My guess is that Sharwil will grow and produce a lot better in Florida than in California, since it does so well in Hawaii.
Oscar

Mark in Texas

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The "Texas Sharwil"
« Reply #95 on: June 09, 2013, 10:47:21 AM »
Hey ya'll, here's mah "Texas Sharwil".  She was grafted March 2012 and is growing like a weed.  The huge size of the leaves is interesting, they just seem to be getting bigger, a good thang.  :)  Some are 10 1/2" long.  At the rate this thing is growing I expect fruit next year.  I'm especially proud of the graft as I've never done a veneer before.

Wish me luck!







Oscar, you're spot on.  CALAVO is one strong lobbying group.  Doesn't take much of a lie for the politicians (and Dept. of Ag.) to cave into their bullying.  What's amazing is how they fought Chile and Mexican fruit for so long and then finally gave in.   They now call those south of the border growers "my partners".  Well, if the latino growers can be "partners", what's going on with the Hawaiians who indeed could supply tons of high quality cados?  Is the governor of Hawaii and his buds not doing their job?

Mark

« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 11:03:14 AM by Mark in Texas »

Zambezi

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #96 on: June 09, 2013, 11:05:25 AM »
Mark, what's a good source of Avo scions in the USA? Do you grow your own rootstock and if so, any particular one? Most suited for Texas?


Another Question I have for Avocado Experts, is what rootstock do you guys prefer to use?

I know that most commercial growers selling avo plants use Lula as rootstock for it's faster growth (but it's not that cold hardy - Upper/mid 20's?). Sometimes when shopping for plants, I ask the nurseries what rootstock the avo's are on, and I only get blank stares. 

I've been reading up on the races and was looking into maybe using a Mexican race for cold tolerance, like Mexicola or Winter Mexican. Do you guys foresee any problems with using it rather than the usual Lula?  Any Help in this area of how to choose a right  base plant for grafting will help. 

Thanks..:)
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 01:01:50 PM by GreenThumb »

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #97 on: June 09, 2013, 03:45:30 PM »
First question you need to address: What is the source and quality of your irrigation water. Once you have that information you can start selecting root stock. Temperature is not everything.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

Zambezi

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #98 on: June 09, 2013, 06:07:19 PM »
Carlos,

Water is from a pumped well source. What in the quality of the water am I looking for that can be detrimental? I know that it is hard water, and chlorinated, but i can request a report...
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 06:09:04 PM by GreenThumb »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #99 on: June 09, 2013, 10:40:41 PM »
Mark, what's a good source of Avo scions in the USA? Do you grow your own rootstock and if so, any particular one? Most suited for Texas?

I got my scions from Dr. MaryLu Arpaia.

My rootstock is grocery bought Florida cados.  It does extremely well with my hard well water, which suggests it is mostly W. Indies.

Not knowing your growing conditions, it's hard to recommend a particular rootstock.

Mark
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 10:43:10 PM by Mark in Texas »

 

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