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Author Topic: To drop fruit or not, that is the question. (aka it's all in the balance)  (Read 3249 times)

Mark in Texas

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Rather than hijack a thread, gonna start with a reply to Carlos regarding balancing a tree or plants foliar/root production with the fruit.  Using my young Oro Negro as an example......

I would remove most if not all of them. Don't give in to the pressure!


I understand, but again, I think dropping or retaining fruit is a grower's call based on the vigor and mass of roots and foliage no matter if it's a pecan tree, peach,  mango or avocado.  There is no black and white protocol when it comes to gardening IMO.....you have to learn to read your plants.  They'll tell what they need if you're smart enough to observe and "listen".  If they're weak, then by all means drop their fruit.

I have excellent, very vigorous roots and foliage with a huge flush of foliage going on, so I think it can support the fruit.  I'll wait until the first cold snap which means the heat's gone for 2013 and done it's dirty deeds (dropped fruit), and then make another call. 

Bottom line, a grower must learn how to balance his fruit load with the vigor, health, root mass and foliar mass of his plant material.  Give you an example, I also grow wine grapes and if I have a wimpy vine I make sure and drop all of its young clusters so that the vines resources can rebuild that vine.  I have almost killed vines by overloading them.  Takes a long time to recover too.  Same with peaches but I let my gusty winds knock the fruit off and about 60% is dropped by the winds.  My wimpy looking Gwen is one precocious mom and it took me forever to pluck all the blossoms off it.  Now it's exploding with new foliage where it was pretty much a bare little tree while blooming.

Just took these photos of an Oro Negro that was planted last March in my greenhouse in bottomless RootBuilder pots.  It has 24 beautiful fruit.  Discussion welcome!

Mark






« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 08:39:07 AM by Mark in Texas »

johnb51

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Aren't avocado (and mango) trees pretty good at dropping on their own fruit they can't support?
John

Mark in Texas

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Aren't avocado (and mango) trees pretty good at dropping on their own fruit they can't support?

Most fruit trees are and I think that includes those mentioned.  Fruit will also curb plant/tree vigor, and that's the point I'm trying to make - finding the right balance.

This tree has a very robust root system.  I saw it first hand when I added 3 RootBuilder panels to the pot this spring and exposed the root system as I was attaching those new panels to go from a pot about 20" to 30".

I've been growing for 45 years and may now cave into peer pressure and drop half the fruit myself!   ;D

 
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 08:38:14 AM by Mark in Texas »

zands

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        Last year my young Neelam mango put out 15 nice fruits. I never should have allowed this because the first one I got to taste was so vile I picked off all the fruits so it could put its energy into foliage and growth. I wasted 3 months of better growth for Neelam by allowing such heavy fruiting for its size. This year no fruits which is fine by me, let it grow some more and put out more roots to support fruit growing is your (Mark's) point

Mark-- My grapes-- I have 4 muscadine vines growing, two are climbing a trellis on a south facing wall. And just bought 2 more yesterday. Tara and Triumph varieties. Lowes still has some Tara and Triumph. Lowes near Sample and 441 in Broward. They also have a lot of conventional grapes which I doubt you can grow this far south. It was a grape you make wine out of. All grapes/muscadines were $6.99
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 09:24:04 AM by zands »

johnb51

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        Last year my young Neelam mango put out 15 nice fruits. I never should have allowed this because the first one I got to taste was so vile I picked off all the fruits so it could put its energy into foliage and growth. I wasted 3 months of better growth for Neelam by allowing such heavy fruiting for its size. This year no fruits which is fine by me, let it grow some more and put out more roots to support fruit growing is your point

Yes, I've noticed that as long as the young mango trees are carrying fruit, they don't produce new growth.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 09:21:29 AM by johnb51 »
John

zands

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        Last year my young Neelam mango put out 15 nice fruits. I never should have allowed this because the first one I got to taste was so vile I picked off all the fruits so it could put its energy into foliage and growth. I wasted 3 months of better growth for Neelam by allowing such heavy fruiting for its size. This year no fruits which is fine by me, let it grow some more and put out more roots to support fruit growing is your point

Yes, I've noticed that as long as the young trees are carrying fruit, they don't produce new growth.

I have another young mango and am allowing only one fruit to mature. So it is putting out decent foliage. Just my experience but the first fruit from a small mango tree can be awful (has happened 3-4 times) so why waste your trees resources on fruiting.

Mark in Texas

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Mark-- My grapes-- I have 4 muscadine vines growing, two are climbing a trellis on a south facing wall. And just bought 2 more yesterday. Tara and Triumph varieties. Lowes still has some Tara and Triumph. Lowes near Sample and 441 in Broward. They also have a lot of conventional grapes which I doubt you can grow this far south. It was a grape you make wine out of. All grapes/muscadines were $6.99

Good luck with your grapes Zands!  Sounds like you scored some good buys.

  I grow viniferas, have the best Merlot clone from Beaucastel France, Grenache, Mouvedre, Viognier, Aglianico, Tannat, Syrah, Petite Verdot,  etc.  I sell to amateur winemakers who are making some premium wines.  Such fun!

FWIW, dropped most of the ON fruit today.

Mark

zands

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Mark-- My grapes-- I have 4 muscadine vines growing, two are climbing a trellis on a south facing wall. And just bought 2 more yesterday. Tara and Triumph varieties. Lowes still has some Tara and Triumph. Lowes near Sample and 441 in Broward. They also have a lot of conventional grapes which I doubt you can grow this far south. It was a grape you make wine out of. All grapes/muscadines were $6.99

Good luck with your grapes Zands!  Sounds like you scored some good buys.

  I grow viniferas, have the best Merlot clone from Beaucastel France, Grenache, Mouvedre, Viognier, Aglianico, Tannat, Syrah, Petite Verdot,  etc.  I sell to amateur winemakers who are making some premium wines.  Such fun!

FWIW, dropped most of the ON fruit today.

Mark

You can't fool me. You grow zero muscadines. You are growing real grapes. Too hot+humid here South Florida for real grapes. Muscadines have thick skin that protects against fungus. You are in Hill Country (visited there and saw the tearrain) or close to it. Last I looked the precipitation is 22 inches/year in that part of Texas. So dry enough to grow your vinifera w irrigation but must be hot for extended months where you are. Almost too hot for European vinifera but with all the grafting and alteration of the classic European vines probably not a big deal these days

Nice you have such good Merlot grapes. Only wines I really like are Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon. White wines, blush etc don't float my boat but obviously others love them

Mark in Texas

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You can't fool me. You grow zero muscadines. You are growing real grapes. Too hot+humid here South Florida for real grapes. Muscadines have thick skin that protects against fungus. You are in Hill Country (visited there and saw the tearrain) or close to it. Last I looked the precipitation is 22 inches/year in that part of Texas. So dry enough to grow your vinifera w irrigation but must be hot for extended months where you are. Almost too hot for European vinifera but with all the grafting and alteration of the classic European vines probably not a big deal these days

Nice you have such good Merlot grapes. Only wines I really like are Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon. White wines, blush etc don't float my boat but obviously others love them

Nope, you can have the muscadines. :)  You could grow Black Spanish, Lomanto and Blanc du Bois, both making good wines.

I grow Rhone types - Mourvedre, Syrah, and Grenache plus Petite Verdot, Viognier, Vermentino, Tannat (think tannins, signature red of Uruguay), Merlot and the noble south Italian, Aglianico.  We are second to Napa for wine tourism, it's a huge biz.  Average rainfall is supposed to be 28".  Elevation is 1,800' where I'm at.   Speaking of drought, the 2011 drought killed off everything - native foliage that had grown for decades, livestock, crops,  creeks/wells went dry and we had like 89 consecutive temps over 100F in Austin.  I had 5" of rain in a 12 month period.  Argggggggghhhhh!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 09:10:53 AM by Mark in Texas »

BMc

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Some fruit trees and selections are good at self-thinning. Others, particularly those that are selected for their extreme cropping ability, will not shed enough fruit to keep themselves healthy and letting a heavy first or second set develop - even half-way - can set them back. In some cases young trees can fruit themselves to death. Its usually pretty easy to tell if a tree is too small to hold a certain amount of fruit though...

johnb51

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You guys convinced me to knock most of the mangos off my year-old Neelam.  I left 8.  We'll see what happens, but my Pickerings were so incredible that I'm hopeful. 

Mark, I lived in Grapevine, TX, for five years--a great town.  The very best grapes in TX are being grown in the High Plains, or so I've been told.
John

Mark in Texas

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You guys convinced me to knock most of the mangos off my year-old Neelam.  I left 8.  We'll see what happens, but my Pickerings were so incredible that I'm hopeful. 

Mark, I lived in Grapevine, TX, for five years--a great town.  The very best grapes in TX are being grown in the High Plains, or so I've been told.

3 freezes and the biggest grape growing area in the High Plains is now toast.

Thanks for touching base!

Oh.....the very best grapes are being grown on my farm! ;)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 08:04:31 AM by Mark in Texas »

 

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