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Author Topic: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?  (Read 2023 times)

huertasurbanas

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1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« on: June 14, 2013, 11:31:22 AM »
Hi! here is a big question to the forum:

With a friend we plan to create a "food forest" in approximately one acre.

The climate is subtropical with frost usually -2 º C but sometimes -6 º C and rarely -9 ° C. In summer temperatures sometimes reach 39 ° C, but the maximum is 34 ° C generally.

There are methods with water (ponds), rocks, buried organic matter to heat up and stuff to lower the incidence of frost damage, we may apply, perhaps pitanga could survive there (say that resists -7 º C), but would it yield right?

which trees would you choose? Would you use an anti-frost?
I thought of the following sub-tropical:

name (frost hardy)

feijoa (-11 º C)
guabiju (-10 º C or so)
pitanga (-7 º C)
cherry of the rio grande (-6 ° C?)
strawberry guava (-6 ° C?)
guava (-4 º C mmm ... maybe not possible)
setecapotes (-4 º C?)
Uvaia (? the same as pitanga?)
Ubajay (?)

These are all native fruit trees from the north of Argentina. Then we would plant also all traditional fruit: crítrics, peach, apricot, plum, pear, cherry, apple, etc..

That's 1/3 of what is important in a forest of food in relation to trees, then the other third would be perhaps trees with edible leaves do you know some?

the other third would be devoted to walnuts, almonds, chestnuts, etc.. What do you recommend?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 12:06:09 PM by huertasurbanas »

nullzero

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2013, 01:11:59 PM »
Hi! here is a big question to the forum:

With a friend we plan to create a "food forest" in approximately one acre.

The climate is subtropical with frost usually -2 º C but sometimes -6 º C and rarely -9 ° C. In summer temperatures sometimes reach 39 ° C, but the maximum is 34 ° C generally.

There are methods with water (ponds), rocks, buried organic matter to heat up and stuff to lower the incidence of frost damage, we may apply, perhaps pitanga could survive there (say that resists -7 º C), but would it yield right?

which trees would you choose? Would you use an anti-frost?
I thought of the following sub-tropical:

name (frost hardy)

feijoa (-11 º C)
guabiju (-10 º C or so)
pitanga (-7 º C)
cherry of the rio grande (-6 ° C?)
strawberry guava (-6 ° C?)
guava (-4 º C mmm ... maybe not possible)
setecapotes (-4 º C?)
Uvaia (? the same as pitanga?)
Ubajay (?)

These are all native fruit trees from the north of Argentina. Then we would plant also all traditional fruit: crítrics, peach, apricot, plum, pear, cherry, apple, etc..

That's 1/3 of what is important in a forest of food in relation to trees, then the other third would be perhaps trees with edible leaves do you know some?

the other third would be devoted to walnuts, almonds, chestnuts, etc.. What do you recommend?

-9c is going to limit some stuff. Here is what I would do

Avocado: cold hardy ones like Mexicola and Mexicola grande. Hardy to about 18-20F

Edible greens: Toona sinensis, Silene Inflata, Plantago lanceolata (Buckhorn's Plantain), Tree Kale, Egyptian Walking Onions, Horseradish.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 02:27:07 PM by nullzero »
Grow mainly edible and herbal plants. Favorites are the fruits, vegetables, and tea plants.

TriangleJohn

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2013, 01:52:50 PM »
I'm in zone 7b US which is about that temperature range and the only plant on your list I grow outside in the ground is Feijoa and it does get leaf burn when the nights are frosty and there is wind. I does recover the next summer but I wouldn't call my climate ideal for growing them.

What I do that is easy for me is use a large hoop house or simple plastic sheeting greenhouse, sometimes called a high tunnel. They are easy to cover completely when winter is severe and easy to uncover when the weather is mild. Mine is 20 feet wide, 30 feet long and has a 15 foot ceiling at the peak - high enough for trees as long as you prune them. I heat it with an old wood burning stove (fire wood is free for me - but I have to chop it and haul it. And keeping a fire going all night gets old real quick).

Most of the lemon farms in Italy are done in a frosty area (I don't think they are as cold as what you are talking about) they have all sorts of tricks to keep their trees happy. A lot of them even grow their trees in large pots.

You have to pay attention to more than just the lowest temperature at night, wind matters, humidity matters and how long plants are exposed to below freezing temps.

I have a one acre garden which grows more than enough food. My biggest problem is that everything seems to get ripe at the same time. It can be very hard to get it all harvested and put away (frozen, dehydrated, canned). In my hoophouse I have a dozen citrus and guava trees which produce enough fruit for me to give some away to friends - and my trees are young, in a few years they will really be producing.

You might want to add Kiwi vines - both hardy kiwi and fuzzy kiwi, each vine can produce up to 150 pounds of fruit.

Tropicdude

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2013, 02:08:46 PM »
Do not forget the root crops, like Yacon, Potatoes etc.

Herbs both culinary and medicinal ,  so many.
Nuts, like Pecans. and Pachira acuatica ( -2C )
Southern low chill varieties of Peaches, Apples..
Berries, black berries, raspberries, mulberry.
Cherries
Ground cherry, I had some wonderful ground cherry preserves from Colombia.
Lucuma can take -3C
Some palms, like Peach-palm (Bactris gasipaes)
Grapes.
Cherimoya
Persimmons.
Cocona ( can take short periods of cold ).

My suggestion is you try to also include support trees, that are NFT, that can be coppiced and used as mulch, and compost, to have a self sustainable system.  permaculture style.

I hope you post many updates to your project, I am really interested in this, do you have a youtube channel? it would be great if you could document the progress.

William
" The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.....The second best time, is now ! "

Felipe

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2013, 05:59:59 PM »
I agree on chirimoya, avocado, lucuma, white sapote, kaki...

LEOOEL

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2013, 01:13:45 AM »
You're off to a great start. That list you're putting together is very important. With all due respect, I wish I knew your Temperature Zone, that way I may have a reccomendation(s). Although you're just starting, it's an important and exciting thing to be making decisions about your choice of fruit varieties and the locations where they'll be planted, based on their ultimate mature tree size and other factors. The better you make these choices and decisions now, the bigger the payoff in fruit enjoyment later.
'Virtue', learn/teach/propagate it, you'll save others and yourself.

fruitlovers

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2013, 01:40:39 AM »
Junin, Argentina = 34.5 S. latitude. That's going to make his location colder probably than any place in Florida. Probably more equivalent to latitudes in Georgia. Atlanta is 33.7 N latitude for comparison. Also Junin same latitude as Santa Barbara, California, but not coastal, so colder than that also.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 01:42:43 AM by fruitlovers »
Oscar

huertasurbanas

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2013, 09:43:06 AM »
You're off to a great start. That list you're putting together is very important. With all due respect, I wish I knew your Temperature Zone, that way I may have a reccomendation(s). Although you're just starting, it's an important and exciting thing to be making decisions about your choice of fruit varieties and the locations where they'll be planted, based on their ultimate mature tree size and other factors. The better you make these choices and decisions now, the bigger the payoff in fruit enjoyment later.


Hi, very thanks, here you are:




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jun%C3%ADn,_Buenos_Aires_Province#Climate

DurianLover

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2013, 10:35:22 AM »
Surprise no one mentioned pomegranate. Selected varieties are very nice. I think cherimoyas won't make it. Reportedly even mature tress are killed at -3 C.  I would plant some most cold hardy avocados. Probably need to say a prayer for them to make it :)
I think the best quality fruits out of all suggested would be: various berries, cherries, grapes, pomegranates and persimmons. I would especially go heavy on persimmons. Ripened to perfection good variety persimmon makes my top 10 favorite. By selecting different varieties you can extend persimmon season to almost 4 month, than another 1 month in storage. They are also very good when dried.

huertasurbanas

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2013, 11:52:48 AM »
Surprise no one mentioned pomegranate. Selected varieties are very nice. I think cherimoyas won't make it. Reportedly even mature tress are killed at -3 C.  I would plant some most cold hardy avocados. Probably need to say a prayer for them to make it :)
I think the best quality fruits out of all suggested would be: various berries, cherries, grapes, pomegranates and persimmons. I would especially go heavy on persimmons. Ripened to perfection good variety persimmon makes my top 10 favorite. By selecting different varieties you can extend persimmon season to almost 4 month, than another 1 month in storage. They are also very good when dried.

Hello, thank you very much for the advices, the purpose of this food forest is as follows:

It is assumed that 1 acre of food forest can feed 10 people (as says Martin Crawford), the goal is to test whether it can be done in this climate where frosts rarely reach -7 ° C, humidity is 74% annual, rainfall is 1500mm, etc..

Ideally, a person should be able to enter the forest any day and leave it to the food needed for the day. Could it be possible? For this, we can not rely only on fruit, it is important that there are many nuts, and leaves of trees are also important.

Regards

huertasurbanas

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2013, 11:55:38 AM »
I hope you post many updates to your project, I am really interested in this, do you have a youtube channel? it would be great if you could document the progress.


For sure! this is a social project too, so we will free all the experience in some way.

For now, this is my personal channel in youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/user/marcosmusixpcmusicam

Maybe I will create a special website for the project, or maybe I will document it just in huertasurbanas.com

Cheers!

huertasurbanas

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2013, 11:57:17 AM »
I'm in zone 7b US which is about that temperature range and the only plant on your list I grow outside in the ground is Feijoa and it does get leaf burn when the nights are frosty and there is wind. I does recover the next summer but I wouldn't call my climate ideal for growing them.

What I do that is easy for me is use a large hoop house or simple plastic sheeting greenhouse, sometimes called a high tunnel. They are easy to cover completely when winter is severe and easy to uncover when the weather is mild. Mine is 20 feet wide, 30 feet long and has a 15 foot ceiling at the peak - high enough for trees as long as you prune them. I heat it with an old wood burning stove (fire wood is free for me - but I have to chop it and haul it. And keeping a fire going all night gets old real quick).

Most of the lemon farms in Italy are done in a frosty area (I don't think they are as cold as what you are talking about) they have all sorts of tricks to keep their trees happy. A lot of them even grow their trees in large pots.

You have to pay attention to more than just the lowest temperature at night, wind matters, humidity matters and how long plants are exposed to below freezing temps.

I have a one acre garden which grows more than enough food. My biggest problem is that everything seems to get ripe at the same time. It can be very hard to get it all harvested and put away (frozen, dehydrated, canned). In my hoophouse I have a dozen citrus and guava trees which produce enough fruit for me to give some away to friends - and my trees are young, in a few years they will really be producing.

You might want to add Kiwi vines - both hardy kiwi and fuzzy kiwi, each vine can produce up to 150 pounds of fruit.


Hi!, very thanks, what do you think of this advice?

"http://www.jackiefrench.com/groves.html

Read through this article by Jackie French – she is an awesome Australian gardener and has a very similar climate to you – although you do not say whether you are in a humid or dry environment and that would make a difference to your approach. Groves work really well in dry climates but spacing trees that closely will induce mould in humid environments.

She has avocados and macadamia nuts and many other tropical trees that will not tolerate any frost and they survive in groves.

You should look at the work of Sepp Holzer as well – he creates microclimates in Austria and grows fruit he should never be able to grow in his climate these methods as well. Large ponds/dams and large rocks make the difference…

Good luck, I am very envious!

Cheers, Linda"

DurianLover

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2013, 12:20:05 PM »
Surprise no one mentioned pomegranate. Selected varieties are very nice. I think cherimoyas won't make it. Reportedly even mature tress are killed at -3 C.  I would plant some most cold hardy avocados. Probably need to say a prayer for them to make it :)
I think the best quality fruits out of all suggested would be: various berries, cherries, grapes, pomegranates and persimmons. I would especially go heavy on persimmons. Ripened to perfection good variety persimmon makes my top 10 favorite. By selecting different varieties you can extend persimmon season to almost 4 month, than another 1 month in storage. They are also very good when dried.

Hello, thank you very much for the advices, the purpose of this food forest is as follows:

It is assumed that 1 acre of food forest can feed 10 people (as says Martin Crawford), the goal is to test whether it can be done in this climate where frosts rarely reach -7 ° C, humidity is 74% annual, rainfall is 1500mm, etc..

Ideally, a person should be able to enter the forest any day and leave it to the food needed for the day. Could it be possible? For this, we can not rely only on fruit, it is important that there are many nuts, and leaves of trees are also important.

Regards

I don't think you can enter into forest any time of the year and leave with the food. Not in your climate at least. You can build some greenhouses for veggies, and that would make it much more doable in winter. By leaving 1/4 acre for something else other than trees your goal is very attainable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfnzV4n1_xk

Tropicdude

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2013, 02:01:07 PM »
Linda
You have obviously been researching this for some time,  the current planning stage as LEOOEL mentioned is important,  its like a mental time travel, looking ahead and imagining how everything will look, years from now.

questions to ask yourself when "designing" these systems, is, will there be enough water during the dry season, where will the water flow during a storm? are there measures to prevent erosion?, will you have a pond?  animals?  what about the nutrients for the plants?

Most of the projects I have seen of reclaiming land to make a food forest usually starts off by preparing the land some how, with swales, then adding some nitrogen short term ground covers to build soil fertility. then adding misc trees and shrubs, in certain ratios, but typically at first, you may only have 10% fruiting trees to 90% service trees, which over time gradually is reduced and more and more fruiting trees are added.  the end ratio I believe depends on the environmental factors, but the idea is to be self sustaining where no outside nutrients are needed.  If I am not mistaken I think that is your intention.

Service trees build the soil, both from the leaves they drop, but also when you coppice them, by being pro active, you are speeding up the natural process. in a few years, even the nastiest soils can be fertile again.  of course if your soils are not that bad, a different strategy can be taken. and less time will be needed to build the soils up before many fruit trees go in.  but its still important that you have support trees that will be able to "feed" your fruit trees. 

I think animals can be useful here, even if you do not consume the animals, a small pond can supply lots of fish, Tilapia grow fast, and are a good source of protein.  in and around the pond, you can have plants that like marshes,  for example Lotus grow in the water, are beautiful, but the seeds and roots are edible, some are medicinal.  the location of the pond can help regulate temperatures, the reflected light used to keep some areas warmer.

Ducks can keep some pest in control, like snails. duckweed in the pond is another source of food for the ducks.  the duckweed gets its nutrients from the pond from the tilapia waste. 

Fungi in my opinion is very important, inoculating with many different types of beneficial fungi will benefit the whole system. 

Pages could be written on all the things you can do, and plants that can be used. for example, Comfrey, is a wonderful medicinal, that also makes a great natural fertilizer, as it brings up minerals from deep in the ground.   vetivar grass is good for creating borders and preventing erosion,  just make sure you use non spreading versions of these plants.
William
" The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.....The second best time, is now ! "

huertasurbanas

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2013, 06:07:17 PM »
It will be very useful William, by the way, can you tell us about some "service trees"?


BMc

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2013, 07:47:53 PM »
loquats

Tropicdude

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2013, 10:39:38 PM »
It will be very useful William, by the way, can you tell us about some "service trees"?


By service trees, I mean tree that have usefulness other than having something to eat from them although they may have something edible,  example would be (tropics ) Inga edulis, Tamarind,  Moringa, Leacaena.    some are NFT ( Nitrogen fixing trees ) and will store nitrogen at the roots, where other plants can benefit.

Other just shed tons of leaves, and grow fast, you can coppice them 1-4 times a year and just drop the stuff on the ground around other fruit trees, ( Chop and drop ). this ads bio mass to the soil, will decompose and feed your other trees. etc. also some are good for timber and poles, to make fences, charcoal, or just feed your worms, or toss in compost pile.

Here are some useful links:

http://www.pfaf.org/user/edibleuses.aspx
http://www.worldagroforestry.org/resources/databases/agroforestree
http://www.agroforestry.net/pubs/speciescharac.html

most research I have done has been for the tropics.

Lawton's Guide To Permaculture Design and Strategy - Part 1

William
" The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.....The second best time, is now ! "

huertasurbanas

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2013, 09:39:50 AM »
Hi, thanks Tropicdude/William; Martin Crawford works in a non tropical zone, so I will study that and Sepp Holzer, etc.

I post what Linda from Fukuoka Farming list replied now:

"Yes I have been reading about food forests for a long time, but haven't been very active for a few years now. This is an area where there have been various upsets over the years on this forum, with some believing that you shouldn't `design' the system (aka permaculture or similar) as it is not `natural farming'. I disagree with this entirely and believe natural farming can only be really effective if the `spaces' are designed well from the beginning to ensure efficient energy flows including water, human, nutrient etc.

You do have my intention right – completely self-sufficient area of food producing land, requiring no inputs on a long term basis. All of the points you mention/quote below being relevant and important.

I would first say that every plot of land is unique and will require a slightly different approach – swales are not effective in all environments for instance. So reading the landscape and understanding the soil are the first vital skills you need to design a site well. That is why in permaculture you shouldn't `do' anything for the first year. You need to see how the landscape changes and responds to the different seasons – as you indicated with observing storm water flows etc. Having said that, there are things you can do that will not interfere with any future design plans – number one is to increase the fertility of the soil. So if possible, and certainly from a natural farming perspective, use cover crops. If not possible (which it wasn't where I started one food forest) then mulch – as deeply as possible, using any natural materials you can that will break down over time. Even one year of deep mulch can radically change the soil (from either rock hard or almost sand) to one that will absorb moisture and sustain a tree being planted within it.

I would absolutely always incorporate bodies of water – for microclimate development, for integrated pest management, for food, for mulch production, for irrigation etc.

In food forests established plants trees create their own moisture and the humidity stays significantly higher within the `forest' than it is outside – as you can experience in a natural rainforest. So water through rainfall is less of an issue using food forest design principles, although getting the initial cover trees established in a hot dry environment will most likely require support, depending also on the levels of mulch etc you support the growing trees with.

Designing a food forest can be very complex – Edible Forest Gardens by Dave Jacke and Eric Toensmeiers has a wealth of information for example on the interactions between tree roots (some like being planted with others of their own family, others don't). It also has incredible tables in the appendix detailing vast information about a huge number of edible plants for a food forest. They go through a very detailed design process as well – more than I am interested in… I don't have a scanner

Or you can make it really simple and entirely natural. Use your knowledge and intuition. Plant some trees, set up your microclimate areas, put in your water sources, plant some more trees, provide protection for those that you believe will/may need it and observe the results. Keep planting, keep observing and build on the knowledge you learn. This way you may get a closer bond with your land and the little unique spaces within it as well…

Here is a list of trees with edible leaves:
http://www.terrapermadesign.com/wp-content/userfiles/Trees-with-Edible-Leaves.html


Cheers, Linda
"

Guanabanus

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2013, 11:34:21 AM »
If your location reaches water-freezing temperature, 0 C, or lower every year, it is better described as Temperate Zone.  Sub-Tropical areas have some freeze-free years.

Good fruits for you:

Asimina triloba, northern Pawpaw (plant at least two varieties for pollination);

Diospyros virginiana, Persimmon;

Diospyros kaki, Caqui or Kaki or Oriental-Persimmon;

Elaeagnus species, such as Autumn-Olive, which also reclaim poor soil;

Morus nigra, Black Mulberry, which is both a fruit tree and a service tree.
Har

mangomike

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2013, 01:49:42 PM »
Based on your weather data I would also try a jackfruit or failing that a kwai muk. You would need to protect them for a few years, but if it could establish, a jackfruit would give a lot of food. If the winter lows rule out Artocarpus, you could certainly grow mulberries.

Does Geoffraea (chanar) grow in your area? I know it is native to Argentina. That would be a great service tree; N-fixing, useful food, shade, windbreak.

Speaking of windbreak, what are the winds like at the site? It seems your humidity is fairly high year-around; if there is significant windy periods this might translate into condensation, increasing you total precipitation.

Good luck with your project. Keep us posted on your progress.

huertasurbanas

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2013, 06:49:57 PM »
If your location reaches water-freezing temperature, 0 C, or lower every year, it is better described as Temperate Zone.  Sub-Tropical areas have some freeze-free years.

Good fruits for you:

Asimina triloba, northern Pawpaw (plant at least two varieties for pollination);

Diospyros virginiana, Persimmon;

Diospyros kaki, Caqui or Kaki or Oriental-Persimmon;

Elaeagnus species, such as Autumn-Olive, which also reclaim poor soil;

Morus nigra, Black Mulberry, which is both a fruit tree and a service tree.


Hi, very thanks! didnt knew pawpaw, very frost resistant! I loved it. We thougth about kaki, for sure will plant them, and if we get some autumn-olive, for sure too.

Morus nigra: of course... but maybe too difficult to control? (I mean: wouldnt it spread like a weed?)

About zone:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Koppen_World_Map_Cwa_Cfa.png

we are into a subtropical zone, but some others call it "clima pampeano" or so...

huertasurbanas

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2013, 10:10:38 PM »
Based on your weather data I would also try a jackfruit or failing that a kwai muk. You would need to protect them for a few years, but if it could establish, a jackfruit would give a lot of food. If the winter lows rule out Artocarpus, you could certainly grow mulberries.

Does Geoffraea (chanar) grow in your area? I know it is native to Argentina. That would be a great service tree; N-fixing, useful food, shade, windbreak.

Speaking of windbreak, what are the winds like at the site? It seems your humidity is fairly high year-around; if there is significant windy periods this might translate into condensation, increasing you total precipitation.

Good luck with your project. Keep us posted on your progress.

Thanks Mike, yes, we love chañar but we didnt got it yet :-S

What is the jackfruit's frost hardiness? Regards

BMc

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2013, 11:47:30 PM »
Wow, -9c in the sub-tropics? I dont think we get that very often in our 'alpine' regions here...
We had our coldest morning in 5 years today, with a chilly 4.4c, but by the time I left for work it was t-shirt weather...

I agree that Eleagnus is a very tough family. Start with Oscar's So-Shang, Taiwan Sweet Olive, Goumi and the regular Autumn Olive. Most need male and female, but I think all are very forgiving in their care, fertilization and water requirements and bear heavily.

I would also stick in a self-pollinating carob, Red Shahtoot Mulberry (its dwarf and non-weedy - must be grafted), maybe Japanese Raisin, Loquats, Nuts (Pecan, Chestnut) and for a long term project I would stick in a few Bunya nuts near a fence line.

fruitlovers

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2013, 01:56:16 AM »
I agree with Har. i woudn't call your area sub tropics, you are too cold and too far from equator. Whatever you call it good luck with your project. I think you have received a lot of good suggestions already.
Oscar

huertasurbanas

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2013, 11:15:41 AM »
Hi, Junin is always into subtropical zone maps:

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clima_subtropical_h%C3%BAmedo








 

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