Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Author Topic: How are new Mango types "created"?  (Read 348 times)

Homeby5

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • Key Largo, Florida
    • View Profile
How are new Mango types "created"?
« on: August 07, 2020, 08:16:19 PM »
Can someone explain the process. As an example ...... if I graft a branch of my Valencia Pride to my Carrie.....will it produce a cross between the two?
Help me understand the process.
Thanks

Nyuu

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • Florida , lake placid 9b
    • View Profile
Re: How are new Mango types "created"?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2020, 09:50:33 PM »
Are you thinking about making a hybrid

Finca La Isla

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1374
    • Costa Rica, Southern Caribbean coast
    • View Profile
    • finca la isla
Re: How are new Mango types "created"?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2020, 10:19:07 PM »
Grafting is asexual reproduction.  It doesn’t produce new material.
The process involves pollinating one plants flower with the pollen from another.  The fruits that result will be the same as what that tree always produces.  But, the seeds will have characteristics of the two.  So you grow out the seeds and see what you get when those trees fruit.
In practice it takes a lot of knowledge and/or luck and you would grow out a lot of trees, hoping to get something good.
Hybridization projects are very long term by nature.  There’s techniques to speed up the process but it is still very long term and not always rewarding at all.
Peter

Orkine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 583
    • Jupiter, FL, USA
    • View Profile
Re: How are new Mango types "created"?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2020, 11:59:31 PM »
Boy mango meets girl mango, they have a baby.  If it is a single,, it is a new mango sharing traits of both, some good some bad.  If it is twins or triplets or more, 1 is a new mango and the others are clones of the girl mango.

Jokes aside.

Search on this forum for Polyembryonic or Monoembryonic with mango, especially the later and you will see lots of nice posts explaining.

To cross two mangos, the pollen from one must be introduced to the flower from the other.  The seed of the fruit they make may make a clone of the mother if the variety is polyembryonic but will make a different variety if it is monoembryonic.  Note that at least one of the plants the sprouts from a poly seed may also be a mix of both parents.

A graft should produce the clone of the tree that contributed the scion (though I have seen posts from Simon discussing how the rootstock may somehow affect the grafted variety, if he sees this perhaps he might share a link to his old posts)

Oolie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 710
    • San Diego
    • View Profile
Re: How are new Mango types "created"?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2020, 03:10:10 AM »
If that's all you want, I am growing Valcarrie. Did you want scions?

Francis_Eric

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
    • 40 miles west of Chicago Aurora IL ZONE 5
    • View Profile
    • https://myspace.com/undisclosedforthetime/
Re: How are new Mango types "created"?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2020, 06:32:13 AM »
Yes A long term thing , but time does pass so why not grow out the seed of you experiments,.

I was reading something yesterday , but really do not think you should over complicate it with some scientific stuff.


It does not have to be that complicated though
After you get your seedlings you can graft those onto a large tree to speed up the process
(Like Okrain said certain plants can make clones of the Mother tree, even if they where pollinated )

People also Back cross (like Inbreeding)
That is A (mango ) crossed with b mango =c
Breed the offspring C mango with Mango A (or B)

Also Most the people that talk about breeding here talk about citrus here
(maybe mango, but I do not follow mango here  much or lately 
 Coconut He hybridized Latex less Jack fruit Very Funny Posts,,
 but not sure you could learn off them No offence , but I do not think He explained his Technique ..)

You may be able to even make a hybrid of a Mango, with the one of many  different mango species.

This is pretty easy to read (explains sterile Mule of a Horse, and donkey.)
https://www2.palomar.edu/users/warmstrong/hybrids1.htm
« Last Edit: August 08, 2020, 06:52:36 AM by Francis_Eric »

Francis_Eric

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
    • 40 miles west of Chicago Aurora IL ZONE 5
    • View Profile
    • https://myspace.com/undisclosedforthetime/
Re: How are new Mango types "created"?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2020, 06:41:50 AM »
Can someone explain the process. As an example ...... if I graft a branch of my Valencia Pride to my Carrie.....will it produce a cross between the two?
Help me understand the process.
Thanks

That would only happen if the genectics where not close , and it made a Chimera  Bizzaria (just for picture)
(two fruits mutated all into the same fruit.)

https://www.naturemuseum.org/Media/Default/BlogPost/the-museum/blog/compressed/bizzaria%20copy.jpg



Nyuu

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • Florida , lake placid 9b
    • View Profile
Re: How are new Mango types "created"?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2020, 01:33:24 PM »
They usually try to use monoembryonic mango varieties because a lot easier to make new hybrids .depends on how you want to do it there's the easy way in a harder way . Because monoembryonic seeds always different from the mother plant easier to guarantee a new hybrid with cross pollination.

Nyuu

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • Florida , lake placid 9b
    • View Profile
Re: How are new Mango types "created"?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2020, 01:47:11 PM »
But you make a hybrid with Polyembryonic but you need find a way rule out the clones . What some do is use monoembryonic as a mother plant and use Polyembryonic as father in the cross . The next thing is how much effort do you want to put into it . You can find a whole bunch of them start paintings random seeds and leaving it through chance or hand pollinate .

Nyuu

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • Florida , lake placid 9b
    • View Profile
Re: How are new Mango types "created"?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2020, 02:03:05 PM »
Even though hand pollinating a lot more work . It has a better chance of being a cross you might like more but still chance of random undesirable traits . They normally select male flowers in the morning and look female flowers later on the same day . It may be possible save the pollen usually what they would do put in a jar seal it with some silicon gel and put it in the refrigerator but I don't know how well works with mango pollen.

Francis_Eric

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
    • 40 miles west of Chicago Aurora IL ZONE 5
    • View Profile
    • https://myspace.com/undisclosedforthetime/
Re: How are new Mango types "created"?
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2020, 03:54:38 AM »
You can search here In quotations Hybrid Mango . (see next post.)
What are you looking to cross anyways ?

People also Back cross (like Inbreeding)
That is A (mango ) crossed with b mango =c
Breed the offspring C mango with Mango A (or B)

https://www2.palomar.edu/users/warmstrong/hybrids1.htm

I made a Mistake, I was meaning to say
 (for a example American Persimmon X Chinese persimmon = C -- c x American persimmon )
 I Meant this with Hybrids not crosses of the same species
 (usually in my personal choice to refer to same species crosses as crosses ,
 and 2 different species as hybrids Not that others do that, or it is the correct or not correct.)


That does not mean people do not back cross two of the same plants like I said
I know eventually can cause Inbreed depression Just saying is all.
(Inbreed depression can happen in the wild,
 and cause the genetics to change wildly natures way of fixing its Genes.)
,

Of coarse you can do anything you want or breed like you'd want to
 like cross a  certain characteristic with another,
and with the offspring cross back to the parent
 or even with another cultivar with that characteristic.
if that's what you want to do.

Francis_Eric

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
    • 40 miles west of Chicago Aurora IL ZONE 5
    • View Profile
    • https://myspace.com/undisclosedforthetime/
Re: How are new Mango types "created"?
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2020, 04:13:50 AM »
Here is a topic with other Mango breeding pairing, and a Quote too.
I thought this was longer, but may have been another topic of breeding pairings I read)
(you can also see the compact mango topic)

Just use the search "mango hybrid", here, and you could find a lot of different idea's.

Quote Murahilan
Quote
Hey,
Here is the link to a post where I described the process in a little more details: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tropicalfruits/msg1214171915143.html

Here is the text from that post:
"Manual cross pollination was done to a large extent in Australia by Dr. Ian Bally. They manually pollinated individual flowers with pollen from other mangos and related mangifera species in order to develop new mangos for Australia. They were all pretty much crosses with Kensington Pride.

If you would like to manually cross pollinate a mango the process isnt too difficult. Here is a basic rundown of the process. It is much easier to explain visually but this is the best I can do at the moment.
1)During the afternoon of the day before you plan to cross pollinate remove all of the open flowers from the panicle and then bag it to prevent pollination.
2)The next morning, remove bag and identify all the hermaphrodite flowers and remove all other flowers. Take off all the anthers.
3) Pollinate with male flowers.

If I remember correctly there is above a 99% correct cross using that process. The less precise method was to take a small potted plant of the variety you want the male pollen from and put it under a netted tent with the "female" tree and then throw a carcass of some sort under the tent and let the flies do the work for you. That process is not as effective as manually pollinating. I will try to find some more information on the actual work that was done in Australia. It was very interesting stuff."



I know I have a pdf with picture instructions somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.


Here is a link of something else
http://www.virtualherbarium.org/tropicalfruit/WildMangosBorneo.html

Also I do not know of Mango, 
but just because the Offspring isn't good doesn't mean a backcross wont be
Just look at what Floyd Zaiger did did with stone fruit took some grown already,
having a head start and backcrossed again.
I'm sure there are over looked fruit (that was crossed) just waiting to be breed better.


Guanabanus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2551
  • SE Palm Beach County, East of I-95, Elevation 18'
    • USA, Florida, Boynton Beach, 33435, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: How are new Mango types "created"?
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2020, 01:00:55 PM »
I have actually done hand-pollination of mango flowers, with directions from the best.  From hours of work, we got one seed.  I have never recommended this technique to anyone, as I don't consider it to be practical.
Har

roblack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1037
    • Miami, FL 10B
    • View Profile
Re: How are new Mango types "created"?
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2020, 02:28:19 PM »
Dr. Ledesma told me during a Fairchild Farm tour years ago that they would place 2 trees close to each other in a netted area with bees. Or something like that. She made the bees do all the work.

skhan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1423
    • United States, Florida, Coral Springs, 10b
    • View Profile
    • Yard as of Jan 2019:
Re: How are new Mango types "created"?
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2020, 04:19:24 PM »
I think the most practical way to do it is to multigraft a desired mono-embryonic seed parent into the desired pollen parent tree.

For example, I completely top worked my front yard Kiett to CAC. I noticed a single branch coming from below the top worked section.

Hopefully next year I can plant out some KiettxCac crosses,

I'll call the tree Kitkat, lol
Khan's Edible Oasis
Yard as of Jan 2019

 

Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers