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Author Topic: Maha Chanok Mango Origin  (Read 4798 times)

behlgarden

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Maha Chanok Mango Origin
« on: March 27, 2012, 05:10:42 PM »
ok, old post but worth the discussion. My uncle lives in Singapore and he visited me recently. I toured him my garden and he saw Nam Doc Mai mango plant. He asked if I have planted Rainbow mango. I said never heard of it, we googled and found that Rainbow Mango is english name of Maha chanok. My Uncle swears that Maha chanok has flavour and aroma besides sweetness, Nam Doc Mai is plain sweet and big. He didnt understand either why Asians loved Nam Doc Mai which supposedly sells at premium to Maha chanok.

I need Maha chanok!!!!! Dont want to spend $200 for it including delivery from Florida to Ca. My best bet is grafting onto some seedling here and hope for the best.


Mod Edit: I split this topic from another topic in the buy, sell, trade forum because I figured it had a lot of good info that should be on this board.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 06:45:15 PM by murahilin »

bsbullie

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Re: Mahachanok Mango Origin
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 07:17:32 PM »
ok, old post but worth the discussion. My uncle lives in Singapore and he visited me recently. I toured him my garden and he saw Nam Doc Mai mango plant. He asked if I have planted Rainbow mango. I said never heard of it, we googled and found that Rainbow Mango is english name of Maha Chanok. My Uncle swears that Maha Chanok has flavour and aroma besides sweetness, Nam Doc Mai is plain sweet and big. He didnt understand either why Asians loved Nam Doc Mai which supposedly sells at premium to Maha Chanok.

I need Maha Chanok!!!!! Dont want to spend $200 for it including delivery from Florida to Ca. My best bet is grafting onto some seedling here and hope for the best.
never heard of Mahachanok being called Rainbow mango.  Maha means king, I believe.  Absolutely Mahachanok has flavor and aroma in addition to being very sweet.  Its flavor profile is very complex.  NDM also has a flavor profile in addition to a honey sweetness.  Wile both from Thai origin, they are two totally different fruits in terms of flavor and aroma.  There are also multiple NDM varieties.

I am not sure what you mean by, "Asians loved Nam Doc Mai which supposedly sells at premium to Maha Chanok".

If you are in California, you will either have to pay a premium, have someone ship to you (which may not be the easiest with Cali's guidelines), or find someone out there with a tree, get some bud wood and graft yourself....or, move to South Florida.  ;) ;D :P
- Rob

Squam256

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Re: Mahachanok Mango Origin
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 09:12:32 PM »
ok, old post but worth the discussion. My uncle lives in Singapore and he visited me recently. I toured him my garden and he saw Nam Doc Mai mango plant. He asked if I have planted Rainbow mango. I said never heard of it, we googled and found that Rainbow Mango is english name of Maha Chanok. My Uncle swears that Maha Chanok has flavour and aroma besides sweetness, Nam Doc Mai is plain sweet and big. He didnt understand either why Asians loved Nam Doc Mai which supposedly sells at premium to Maha Chanok.

I need Maha Chanok!!!!! Dont want to spend $200 for it including delivery from Florida to Ca. My best bet is grafting onto some seedling here and hope for the best.
never heard of Mahachanok being called Rainbow mango.  Maha means king, I believe.  Absolutely Mahachanok has flavor and aroma in addition to being very sweet.  Its flavor profile is very complex.  NDM also has a flavor profile in addition to a honey sweetness.  Wile both from Thai origin, they are two totally different fruits in terms of flavor and aroma.  There are also multiple NDM varieties.


I suspect that Maha might actually be some kind of Indian/SE Asian hybrid. Its monoembryonic trait, flavor profile, and blush color suggest at least some Indian parentage.

bsbullie

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Re: Mahachanok Mango Origin
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2012, 10:30:14 PM »
ok, old post but worth the discussion. My uncle lives in Singapore and he visited me recently. I toured him my garden and he saw Nam Doc Mai mango plant. He asked if I have planted Rainbow mango. I said never heard of it, we googled and found that Rainbow Mango is english name of Maha Chanok. My Uncle swears that Maha Chanok has flavour and aroma besides sweetness, Nam Doc Mai is plain sweet and big. He didnt understand either why Asians loved Nam Doc Mai which supposedly sells at premium to Maha Chanok.

I need Maha Chanok!!!!! Dont want to spend $200 for it including delivery from Florida to Ca. My best bet is grafting onto some seedling here and hope for the best.
never heard of Mahachanok being called Rainbow mango.  Maha means king, I believe.  Absolutely Mahachanok has flavor and aroma in addition to being very sweet.  Its flavor profile is very complex.  NDM also has a flavor profile in addition to a honey sweetness.  Wile both from Thai origin, they are two totally different fruits in terms of flavor and aroma.  There are also multiple NDM varieties.


I suspect that Maha might actually be some kind of Indian/SE Asian hybrid. Its monoembryonic trait, flavor profile, and blush color suggest at least some Indian parentage.
????
- Rob

Squam256

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Re: Mahachanok Mango Origin
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2012, 12:53:24 AM »
ok, old post but worth the discussion. My uncle lives in Singapore and he visited me recently. I toured him my garden and he saw Nam Doc Mai mango plant. He asked if I have planted Rainbow mango. I said never heard of it, we googled and found that Rainbow Mango is english name of Maha Chanok. My Uncle swears that Maha Chanok has flavour and aroma besides sweetness, Nam Doc Mai is plain sweet and big. He didnt understand either why Asians loved Nam Doc Mai which supposedly sells at premium to Maha Chanok.

I need Maha Chanok!!!!! Dont want to spend $200 for it including delivery from Florida to Ca. My best bet is grafting onto some seedling here and hope for the best.
never heard of Mahachanok being called Rainbow mango.  Maha means king, I believe.  Absolutely Mahachanok has flavor and aroma in addition to being very sweet.  Its flavor profile is very complex.  NDM also has a flavor profile in addition to a honey sweetness.  Wile both from Thai origin, they are two totally different fruits in terms of flavor and aroma.  There are also multiple NDM varieties.


I suspect that Maha might actually be some kind of Indian/SE Asian hybrid. Its monoembryonic trait, flavor profile, and blush color suggest at least some Indian parentage.
????

Just saying that while it may be from Thailand (I thought it was from Singapore but maybe it did originate in Thailand), I don't think it is purely descended from the Thai-line as NDM, Okrung, Sia Tong, etc etc. Its a monoembryonic mango according to Harry, which is relatively unheard of for mangoes originating in Indochina and generally a trait inherited from at least one monoembryonic parent, and its blush characteristics can vary from yellow to a nice bright red (see Harry's avatar as an example). Few indochinese types develop that kind of color (in fact I'm pressed to think of any that do off hand).
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 12:56:52 AM by Squam256 »

bsbullie

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Re: Mahachanok Mango Origin
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2012, 07:15:13 AM »
ok, old post but worth the discussion. My uncle lives in Singapore and he visited me recently. I toured him my garden and he saw Nam Doc Mai mango plant. He asked if I have planted Rainbow mango. I said never heard of it, we googled and found that Rainbow Mango is english name of Maha Chanok. My Uncle swears that Maha Chanok has flavour and aroma besides sweetness, Nam Doc Mai is plain sweet and big. He didnt understand either why Asians loved Nam Doc Mai which supposedly sells at premium to Maha Chanok.

I need Maha Chanok!!!!! Dont want to spend $200 for it including delivery from Florida to Ca. My best bet is grafting onto some seedling here and hope for the best.

never heard of Mahachanok being called Rainbow mango.  Maha means king, I believe.  Absolutely Mahachanok has flavor and aroma in addition to being very sweet.  Its flavor profile is very complex.  NDM also has a flavor profile in addition to a honey sweetness.  Wile both from Thai origin, they are two totally different fruits in terms of flavor and aroma.  There are also multiple NDM varieties.



I suspect that Maha might actually be some kind of Indian/SE Asian hybrid. Its monoembryonic trait, flavor profile, and blush color suggest at least some Indian parentage.

????


Just saying that while it may be from Thailand (I thought it was from Singapore but maybe it did originate in Thailand), I don't think it is purely descended from the Thai-line as NDM, Okrung, Sia Tong, etc etc. Its a monoembryonic mango according to Harry, which is relatively unheard of for mangoes originating in Indochina and generally a trait inherited from at least one monoembryonic parent, and its blush characteristics can vary from yellow to a nice bright red (see Harry's avatar as an example). Few indochinese types develop that kind of color (in fact I'm pressed to think of any that do off hand).

The Mahachanok is definitely of Thai origin.  I know Harry's seem to have a rosy blush on the shoulders however the fruit grown at Excalibur don't.  Below is a sample of an Excalibur Mahachanok.





- Rob

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Re: Mahachanok Mango Origin
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2012, 08:38:03 AM »
Remember that my avatar is not Maha Chanok.....but rather a Maha Chanok seedling.  Here is the GW thread about my Maha Chanok seedling project....which, when I get a chance, I will try to update with this year's fruiting.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tropicalfruits/msg0218064232467.html

Harry
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pj1881 (Patrick)

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HMHausman

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Re: Mahachanok Mango Origin
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2012, 08:44:27 AM »
Another marketing name...like Champagne mango, etc.

Harry
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Tim

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Re: Mahachanok Mango Origin
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2012, 09:48:54 AM »
I have to get this out of the way... it's NOT Chinook, it's Chanok ... there  ;D

Maha Chanok does get a very nice pink blush with sun exposure.  I believe Harry had referenced this blog in the past on GW, but here it is again.  Just blogging from MOM & Daughter.
Tim

murahilin

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Re: Mahachanok Mango Origin
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2012, 10:40:15 AM »
I think I found what we were looking for...

"Genetic relationship of 16 mango cultivars including Mahachanok, Nga(2), Sunset, Keitt, Karabao, Kiewsawoi and 9 unknown cultivars from Mr. Prapat Sithisung orchard was studied to identify the origin of the Mahachanok cultivar. Using 10 AFLP primer pairs, were generated DNA profiles of 16 mango cultivars and found 125 polymorphic DNA bands which were used for genetic similarity analysis. We found cultivars Mahachanok and Sunset to be closely related but the rest of the cultivars were distant apart. We used the co dominant DNA markers MG470P to assess the relationship among 16 cultivars and found that cultivar Nga showed the DNA band of 800 base pairs. On the other hand, Sunset and other cultivars showed the DNA band of 620 base pairs, while Mahachanok had both 800 and 620 bp bands. These results indicate that Nga and Sunset to be highly likely Mahachanok's parents."

Here is some info on the sunset: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunset_%28mango%29

This verifies Squams hypothesis that it's a Indian/SE Asian Hybrid.

HMHausman

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Re: Mahachanok Mango Origin
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2012, 12:08:44 PM »
Good find, Murahilin.....I knew there was a reason we kept you around.

Harry
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Squam256

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Re: Mahachanok Mango Origin
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2012, 05:13:59 PM »
Good find indeed Murahilin.....I have edited the 'Sunset' wiki article to reflect that info.


behlgarden

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Re: Mahachanok Mango Origin
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2012, 05:40:06 PM »
here is the link confirming that Maha Chanok infact is called Rainbow Mango as well. Check out this link http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/112965397/Mango_Mahachanok_Rainbow_Mango_.html

On premim, in Asia (Singapore and Thailand) for some reason my uncle said that Maha Chanok sells cheaper than Nam Doc Mai, which is first choice of Asian folks there.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 05:55:07 PM by murahilin »

bsbullie

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Re: Mahachanok Mango Origin
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2012, 06:14:16 PM »
here is the link confirming that Maha Chanok infact is called Rainbow Mango as well. Check out this link http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/112965397/Mango_Mahachanok_Rainbow_Mango_.html

On premim, in Asia (Singapore and Thailand) for some reason my uncle said that Maha Chanok sells cheaper than Nam Doc Mai, which is first choice of Asian folks there.

That website only shoes it is called Rainbow Mango by that distributor, not that it is another "common name" for it.  Marketing ploy, just as is Champagne mango.
- Rob

behlgarden

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Re: Maha Chanok Mango Origin
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2012, 07:25:11 PM »
could me marketting ploy. but my uncle lives in Singapore and has never heard of Maha Chanok, but he says Rainbow Mango is the best, and we searched and ended up at Maha Chanok. Funny

BMc

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Re: Maha Chanok Mango Origin
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2012, 07:40:06 PM »
This info is from commercial growers here:

http://www.tousgarden.com.au/primary-produce/tous-garden-maha-chinook
The maha chanok mango is trademarked by Tou's Garden in Australia based on a clone of the original Thai maha chanok, a natural clone of Sunset, which was first identified at Lampoon, Northern Thailand.

The big wholesale nursey that stocks the major chains with plants here sells it under the name 'King Thai'.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 08:15:25 PM by murahilin »

murahilin

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Re: Maha Chanok Mango Origin
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2012, 08:18:13 PM »
This info is from commercial growers here:

http://www.tousgarden.com.au/primary-produce/tous-garden-maha-chinook
The maha chanok mango is trademarked by Tou's Garden in Australia based on a clone of the original Thai maha chanok, a natural clone of Sunset, which was first identified at Lampoon, Northern Thailand.

The big wholesale nursey that stocks the major chains with plants here sells it under the name 'King Thai'.


If they sell it under the name "King Thai", that is probably that they have the trademark under unless you were referring to two different nurseries. I doubt they could trademark the maha chanok name. They may be able to trademark "maha chanok" as they have it spelled.

What they said about "a natural clone of Sunset" makes no sense. I would be a sunset then if it was a clone.

Edit: Upon doing some further research it seems as though they have registered an Australian trademark for "Tou's Garden Mahachanok". I am unsure of whether it is for the full name including "Tau's Garden" or not. If so, it's a pointless trademark. Frankly, those people are idiots because they register the trademark under maha chanok but spell it on their own website as chinook.

http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/atmoss/Falcon_Details.Show_tm_Details?p_tm_number=1225204&p_search_no=4&p_ExtDisp=D&p_detail=DETAILED#t1225204c31

Edit2: I hate frivolous trademarks. 'Sweetheart' is my main enemy. Anyways, after skimming through Australian trademark law, it basically states that the original variety name can't be trademarked. You can check the law yourself here: http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/pdfs/trademarkmanual/trade_marks_examiners_manual.htm
Go to section 32A. That would mean that mahachanok is not a valid trademark. Now the question is, is the trademark for "Tau's Garden Mahachanok". If so, would that make the entire long useless phrase valid? At least we know "mahachanok" is not trademarked as it can not be. It also makes me dislike this Tau's Garden people even more for being total idiots. Why waste their time trademarking "Tau's Garden Mahachanok" if that is the case. Who else would sell something as "Tau's Garden"?

Oh well....
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 08:36:31 PM by murahilin »

BMc

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Re: Maha Chanok Mango Origin
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2012, 08:54:59 PM »
Yep. Trademarking and PBRs are a strange thing here. You can PBR an entire species if you wish.

King Thai is the name used by a nursery that sells the trees. Makes some sense as no one but mango nuts would know or care to purchase a Maha Chanok/chanok/chinok/Chanok when it is sitting next to Bowen, KP, NDM or Keitt. Anglocising the name works for the industry here, as many good plants have been introduced, but have quickly fallen into obscurity due to the lack of consumer awareness - more so if its an unfamiliar foreign name. 'King Thai' is not subject to PBR or trademarking.

murahilin

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Re: Maha Chanok Mango Origin
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2012, 09:05:08 PM »
Yep. Trademarking and PBRs are a strange thing here. You can PBR an entire species if you wish.

King Thai is the name used by a nursery that sells the trees. Makes some sense as no one but mango nuts would know or care to purchase a maha chanok/chanok/chinok/Chanok when it is sitting next to Bowen, KP, NDM or Keitt. Anglocising the name works for the industry here, as many good plants have been introduced, but have quickly fallen into obscurity due to the lack of consumer awareness - more so if its an unfamiliar foreign name. 'King Thai' is not subject to PBR or trademarking.

I doubt anyone in Australia could get PBRs for the maha chanok. That would easily be thrown out if anyone challenged it.

I think PBRs and Trademarks are very important and are needed but I do not like it when it abused and a company tries to get them for established cultivar names such as the maha chanok.

You're right, I think more people would buy a King Thai mango before a mahachanok.

natsgarden123

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Re: Maha Chanok Mango Origin
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2012, 09:05:52 PM »
Uh, out of curiosity...why is the only source Excalibur here? 
 ???

murahilin

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Re: Maha Chanok Mango Origin
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2012, 09:09:04 PM »
Uh, out of curiosity...why is the only source Excalibur here? 
 ???

Well, no one cared about the maha chanok in Florida until Harry starting posting about his favorite mango the maha chanok. Also, Excalibur had it mislabled for a few years as mahachanole and mahachanois. Lol. Once the connection was made that the mahachanole was in fact the Mahachanok, they started to sell like crazy. Richard got the trees a few years back in Thailand and grew them and grafted them but no one showed any interest and the trees never sold. Once it was advertised that Excalibur had the mahachanok, they all practically sold out within a few weeks.

I think other nurseries will probably start grafting it soon if many people have been asking for it due to the popularity on the internet.

Squam256

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Re: Maha Chanok Mango Origin
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2012, 09:11:55 PM »
Uh, out of curiosity...why is the only source Excalibur here? 
 ???

It is still *relatively* new in the US and to my knowledge, hasn't been propagated by the major wholesaler(s) yet on any significant scale.

As it inevitably becomes more well known and in demand, I expect that to change. There probably weren't very many sources for NDM in Florida 35 years ago.


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Re: Maha Chanok Mango Origin
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2012, 09:23:24 PM »
I want to taste one :) before (?) I buy the tree.   You never know what varieties will be where. I was at Home Depot last week and they had a bunch of mango varieties: Po Pyu Kalay, Ice Cream, Nam Doc Mai, Kent.   I was surprised. Next year it could be a Maha Chanok.

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Re: Maha Chanok Mango Origin
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2012, 09:43:14 PM »
I want to taste one :) before (?) I buy the tree.   You never know what varieties will be where. I was at Home Depot last week and they had a bunch of mango varieties: Po Pyu Kalay, Ice Cream, Nam Doc Mai, Kent.   I was surprised. Next year it could be a Maha Chanok.

Yes, the major garden centers are getting better at offering more options rather than just 'Haden' and 'Tommy Atkins'.

Only reason they are selling Ice Cream though is its name. Which is why I think the new Zill releases have some potential from a purely marketing standpoint.

 

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