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Messages - mikkel

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1
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Frost hardy citrus in Poland, zone 6
« on: June 11, 2025, 01:58:34 AM »
yes that`s the paper I had in mind.  Japan though, not China :)

2
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Frost hardy citrus in Poland, zone 6
« on: June 10, 2025, 05:51:00 AM »
Thorniness is genetically determined, in experiments in China thornless plants were produced by inbreeding. This FD may also be suitable for producing thornless seedlings through self-pollination.

3
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Konatsu
« on: June 02, 2025, 08:58:08 AM »

4
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 Citrandarin (X-639) winter hardiness trial
« on: June 01, 2025, 04:51:07 PM »
I think citrus growing is an exciting area and a real passion, but it is still an exotic niche, at least for the time being, as long as there is only halfway edible fruit. That will certainly change abruptly as soon as the first hardy varieties appear.
I think after many years it's easy to understand if other things become more important at some point. Bernhard once said to me that now, with the tree care, there is finally a reliable income, something that was very reassuring. I can well understand that. Bernhardt now maintains a citrus collection (the former Fabian collection) beside the tree care where there are many of his own varieties.
Thank you Usirius for the information about Dr Frey, this is the first time I can read any information about him.

All this preparatory work by these many people brings me once again to the thought that I have been thinking about for a long time
how to deal with the possibility of an edible hardy citrus?
How can this breeding work be secured without a few, big ones, taking the credit and, above all, the financial harvest?
I experience this problem with other fruit varieties and have already had my negative experiences.
There are so many of us and an invaluable amount of preparatory work has been done without which this breakthrough would not be possible. I think it would also make sense to secure this work through open source licences in the interests of open exchange and cooperation? https://www.opensourceseeds.org/en/breeder-information
Would this be helpful?

5

I have a kumquat hybrid grown from seeds of a supermarket fruit. The leaves are trifoliate, suggesting it is either a direct hybrid with Pt or a secondary hybrid involving a Pt- hybrid parent. I consider the latter more likely.

7
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The pistil of citrange Rusk
« on: May 24, 2025, 05:10:06 PM »
This afternoon I had another look and actually found flowers that looked like yours

8
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The pistil of citrange Rusk
« on: May 24, 2025, 04:38:38 AM »




9
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Breeding a blood yuzu
« on: May 15, 2025, 03:29:07 AM »
Amoa8 is a hybrid of Moro orange and Avana mandarin.
so, according to the previous considerations, this would possibly mean that the rubi gene of Moro is dominant over the rubi gene of Avana (and  possibly also other mandarins).
Are there other crosses of Moro and mandarins where the hybrids also have blood fruits or not?

Maybe it would be useful and quicker to use citrandarines for crossing blood types?

10
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Breeding a blood yuzu
« on: May 13, 2025, 04:24:41 PM »
I have wondered the same thing, but the literature mentions a single dominant gene. Presumably there is another mechanism behind it that influences inheritance, your explanation sounds plausible.
Another possibility would be to exclude by chance that only the seedlings that did not inherit the gene became varieties.
I think this is less likely, but it cannot be ruled out.

11
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Breeding a blood yuzu
« on: May 12, 2025, 05:52:24 PM »
this would be basically the same procedure, with a dominant gene Ruby, the difficulty is more to maintain the characteristics of the target variety and not simply to produce a new hybrid.

12
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Breeding a blood yuzu
« on: May 12, 2025, 08:45:18 AM »
There is a variety called Tahizu, which is quite similar to Yuzu, but of course not identical. Tahizu is Otahaite x I P or vice versa.
Perhaps it would be helpful to cross a pseudo-yuzu that already contains the Ruby gene...? That would save a generation.
If Ruby is dominant, it will be fairly quick to create a Blood-Yuzu hybrid. It will take longer to restore the Yuzu characteristics by backcrossing...

13
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Breeding a blood yuzu
« on: May 12, 2025, 04:20:59 AM »
That's interesting—then the F1 should potentially produce 50% blood-colored fruits. That seems straightforward; the real challenge is incorporating the remaining Yuzu characteristics.

14
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Breeding a blood yuzu
« on: May 11, 2025, 04:47:16 PM »
So an F1 hybrid should also be blood?

15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Breeding a blood yuzu
« on: May 11, 2025, 04:31:11 PM »
If it only depends on one gene, a possible scheme would be

Yuzu x Blood Variety                          Yuzu x Blood Variety
        I                                                       I
      Rr                           x                         Rr
                       I            I            I
                     RR          Rr           rr

this is idealised and not divided up correctly in proportion, just to convey the idea

isn`t red coloration on new shoot correlated with sour fruits? At least in Passiflora it seems so.




16
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Trifolis
« on: May 09, 2025, 01:49:35 AM »
Thank you, Boris.

17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Trifolis
« on: May 08, 2025, 03:41:42 AM »
I can't really remember — it was way back when I first got into hardy citrus.
I didn't particularly appreciate it at the time, but I think that was just because I was expecting something more like commercial fruit. It wasn’t bad though. I’d probably appreciate it more now.

18
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 08, 2025, 03:36:13 AM »
Morton's orange parent is supposedly also 'Ruby.'

According to this source, Ruby is one parent of Morton, (page 7, second column)

https://journals.flvc.org/fshs/article/download/100828/96780

"Reciprocal crosses were made of P. trifoliata and Ruby sweet orange; 54 citrange hybrids were produced. Eleven different citranges—Norton, Morton, Sanford, Willitts, Phelps, Coleman,
Rustic, Savage, Saunders, Cunningham, and Etonia—were grown from seeds of a single fruit of P. trifoliata crossed with pollen from a single flower of Ruby sweet orange (Swingle 1913)."

C35 also has Ruby as a parent, but probably not the same Poncirus variety as it was release only 1987

https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/crc3912

19
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Trifolis
« on: May 07, 2025, 03:55:14 PM »
I don't have the plant myself, but I got to see it at Andreas Voss’s place a few years ago and even tried one of the fruits.
Some of the photos are his.

The plant originally came from the citrus collection at the University of Prague and was shared around by Bernhard Voss.
It probably came from the Soviet Union originally.





20
If Dimicelli is highly nucellar, try using I.P. It might be able to overcome that.

21
HRS-899K Citrandarin – very interesting! Please keep us updated. Maybe you could share a photo too?

C. ichangensis produces a lot of pollen, which can be stored for a few days. I would recommend using it only as a pollen donor. My I P plants tend to drop their fruits. This might be due to growing conditions, but but ice verse I had always good success.

If you want to use I P as the mother plant, it's best to remove the pollen-bearing anthers before the flowers open. In I P flowers, the stigma and the anthers are very close together, making self-pollination highly probable.

22
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Carolina lime questions
« on: May 02, 2025, 03:19:45 PM »
However, Stan McKenzie said he got it from Europe a long time ago.


all that is known for sure is that it is a seedling that came from Bernhard Voss in Germany. I have spoken to Bernhard about it, but he doesn't know where the seeds came from either. It will probably remain a secret forever.

23
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Use Morton for hardy, good-tasting crosses
« on: May 02, 2025, 12:24:24 PM »
that would be another possibility, but it is probably better to use Morton, as Morton inherited different gene combinations than Sanford, which may be missing in Sanford. When selfing Sanford, the combination is limited to the genes inherited from Sanford, theoretically only 50% of the genes per parent are present. In combination with Morton, the spectrum of inherited genes would be larger. The fact that Morton looks more like an orange also suggests that it has inherited other genes.

Of course, this is a simplified approach, but I think it is quite useful as a basis for further considerations. In breeding there is a term for this method, unfortunately I can't think of it. It should mean something with sibling crossbreeding, I think

(It should be noted that oranges are not a genetically uniform species, which complicates inheritance patterns and limits the applicability of strict Mendelian models. The fact that the same parent combination produced two distinct offspring—Sanford and Morton—clearly illustrates this point. In crosses involving true-breeding species, all F1 offspring (in this case, the citranges) would be expected to be uniform in appearance and traits.

24
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Use Morton for hardy, good-tasting crosses
« on: May 02, 2025, 11:55:31 AM »
I think it might makes sense to cross Morton with Sanford. Since both varieties share the same parentage, a direct cross could recombine the genes of Poncirus and orange, potentially resulting in favorable new combinations.
With a sufficiently large number of offspring, it might be possible to achieve a desirable mix of traits from both parents.
Sanford is zygotic and thus well-suited as the seed parent, while Morton could serve as the pollen donor.
Crossing with other citrus varieties increases the range of possible trait combinations, raising the probabilities

A recombination of F1 traits through sibling crosses could theoretically steer results more precisely in a desired direction.
But it is theory and everything is worth trying.

25
one bad movement
of the knife broke the pistil :(.



You can still apply pollen to a damaged stigma. To do this, simply cut off a small portion of the stigma and apply the pollen directly. This method is well-known for overcoming pollen incompatibility issues and often yields good—sometimes even better—results.

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