Author Topic: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?  (Read 7511 times)

Forester

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2020, 04:09:13 AM »
Does anyone know at what age the first flowering occurs?
❀ Sergey ❀

wangyouqin

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2020, 08:29:21 AM »
Does anyone know at what age the first flowering occurs?


Hello there. In China, it only takes 2 years from seed to fruit, to 3 years, most of the plants are monoecious. There are just a bunch on my own mountain, don't believe in the Internet, the information is wrong. If you need seeds, you can find me, and the shipping fee will do. Almost past season ;D

Forester

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2020, 08:56:32 AM »
Hello there. In China, it only takes 2 years from seed to fruit, to 3 years, most of the plants are monoecious. There are just a bunch on my own mountain, don't believe in the Internet, the information is wrong. If you need seeds, you can find me, and the shipping fee will do. Almost past season ;D
Thanks for the info and your seed proposal. Personally, I have six plants today, so seeds are not needed. I think you can find a buyer on this forum.
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wangyouqin

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2020, 09:20:40 AM »
Hello there. In China, it only takes 2 years from seed to fruit, to 3 years, most of the plants are monoecious. There are just a bunch on my own mountain, don't believe in the Internet, the information is wrong. If you need seeds, you can find me, and the shipping fee will do. Almost past season ;D
Thanks for the info and your seed proposal. Personally, I have six plants today, so seeds are not needed. I think you can find a buyer on this forum.

. . . . You got it wrong. I said sharing seeds for free. These are wild fruits and are not valuable. China has no seeds worth trading. In forums, sharing is the main focus,  :-X

Forester

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2020, 09:35:34 AM »
Ok ;D
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wangyouqin

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2020, 09:11:06 AM »
Today I went up the mountain to harvest the fruits ::) ;D




wangyouqin

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2020, 09:15:16 AM »
Green skin is sweeter


wangyouqin

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2020, 09:17:11 AM »
Green skin is sweeter


wangyouqin

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2020, 09:18:28 AM »
Different taste and different seeds


vnomonee

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2022, 03:52:57 PM »
First kadsura sprouting, took over 4 weeks in ground. And it's been poking out like this for the past week trying to break out of the seed coat. Only 1 out of 10 seeds so far that I can see. Will check my containers where I planted the rest.

Got rid of a small blackberry cane to put this guy in. Hope it will harden off before winter very slow growth.

Edit* 5 out of 10 sprouts so far. 1 in ground and 4 in containers. The rest in the ground must be working their way toward the surface.


« Last Edit: June 17, 2022, 04:00:33 PM by vnomonee »

W.

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2022, 05:40:11 PM »
First kadsura sprouting, took over 4 weeks in ground. And it's been poking out like this for the past week trying to break out of the seed coat. Only 1 out of 10 seeds so far that I can see. Will check my containers where I planted the rest.

Got rid of a small blackberry cane to put this guy in. Hope it will harden off before winter very slow growth.

Edit* 5 out of 10 sprouts so far. 1 in ground and 4 in containers. The rest in the ground must be working their way toward the surface.



I did not get an outstanding germination rate with my seeds, so 50% might be all you get. Hopefully, you will get more. I had a couple of seedlings die off at the cotyledon stage, just a little older than your in-ground seed. So, this is a crucial time for it, as to whether it will survive and thrive. I hope it does. I am excited about this fruit and hope to see more people growing it.

elouicious

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2022, 01:16:51 PM »
I put my Kadsura in the ground now that I have trialed one through a winter here, and now that I have my drip irrigation system set up-

I have an alley like side of my house that gets almost no direct sun that seemed like a good spot for it-

This one I grew from seed from tradewindsfruit and is the only one that has truly started vining- ignore the Justicia pectoralis var. stenophylla it is growing quite well here despite the reported cold intolerance


These two are from RevivalR00ts- one yellow and one ice white





W.

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2022, 01:58:31 PM »
I put my Kadsura in the ground now that I have trialed one through a winter here, and now that I have my drip irrigation system set up-

I have an alley like side of my house that gets almost no direct sun that seemed like a good spot for it-

This one I grew from seed from tradewindsfruit and is the only one that has truly started vining- ignore the Justicia pectoralis var. stenophylla it is growing quite well here despite the reported cold intolerance


These two are from RevivalR00ts- one yellow and one ice white





Based on my plants, once they start putting out vining growth, they take off like rockets. Mine are now established two-year-old plants, both putting out several vines from their bases. The larger one put out about three feet worth of growth on four different vines during May and June. That seems to line up with the few accounts I found of Kaduras, that they are vigorous growers once established, similar to grapes and kiwis.

elouicious

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2022, 02:21:02 PM »
cheers W- hopefully mine do the same


Epicatt2

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2022, 03:11:45 PM »
Nate, thanks for the photos of your Kadsura!

Yours seems to be acting more like a ground cover in those two photos.

Does it show any inclination yet to try to climb up the adjacent fence?

Cheers!

Paul M.
==
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 03:16:39 PM by Epicatt2 »

K-Rimes

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2022, 04:36:49 PM »
I had two in ground, one died this year, the other is just getting going now and really leafing out hard - but no vining activity yet.

Ted B

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2022, 09:35:36 PM »
I have been growing Kadsura coccinea and Kadsura heteroclita in Alabama, USA for several years. K. coccinea seeds I've seen on the web are the wild type. I have these, as well as a commercial hybrid that produces much larger fruit. My plants have been container grown and overwintered indoors to this point, but I have some planted outdoors for their first winter test this season (Zone 7b/8a). The first flowers appeared in 2021 (see image). My plants have been situated in a location that receives only direct morning sun. 

I grow six different species of Schisandra as well, and reports of this genus being dioecious are incorrect, which I suspect may apply to Kadsura as well. Saunders clarified this in his monograph on the Schisandra genus (2000). While plants may appear dioecious, only plants large enough and with sufficient energy produce female inflorescence, but those will have male flowers too. They are only sparingly self-fertile (wild types anyway), which is a factor. 



elouicious

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2022, 10:32:08 PM »
Thanks for the info and a BEAUTIFUL flower picture ted-

have you tasted the fruit?

any chance on distributing some of the seeds from the commercial variety?

I have a few different "colors" planted in the ground in houston now and they are starting to take off

cdin12

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2022, 11:07:55 AM »
This genus intrigues me, vining fruit in general seems uncommonly grown except for grapes and a handful of other; they can add another layer to the garden.

My understanding is they are dioecious. I have heard Kadsura is growing successfully in Australia. It seems to be all over the Asian continent, Japan, China, Indonesia, etc, so cold hardiness could be a species specific trait and there certainly doesn't seem to be that much information out there yet.  Generally I have herd they are cold tolerant, but not sure of the reliability of that information.

I also purchased the same species on eBay from Thailand I think as well as some other species from Trade Winds. Trade winds recommended cold stratifying, so I did a some stratified and some not. There was some delay in getting my germination set up together, but I set several of those seeds last month. I planted them just under the soil and a sneak peak revealed germination in the coccinea but it has not yet broken through the soil so we shall see.

I purchased a few more mature specimens of unknown species from another member earlier this season. He said they were 2 years old. Very small for the age, all well under a foot. They have grown for me slightly, but look similar to when I originally purchased, alive but not thriving, they only hold about 2-3 leaves each. Previous posts on this site have had conflicting information, some have said they are quick growers and others have similar experiences with the plants that I purchased.

Hopefully we can figure out more about this species together.




Ted B

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2022, 11:51:57 AM »
From Monograph of Kadsura (Schisandraceae), Richard M.K. Saunders; Systemic Botany Monographs, Vol 54 (June, 1998):
"Species of Kadsura are generally described as monoecious, although they often superficially appear to be dioecious. The only study of the sexuality of the genus was conducted by Okada (1971), who found separate monoecious and dioecious plants of K. japonica in natural populations in Japan. This would appear to be similar to the results reported for the related species Schisandra chinensis, which, although monoecious, has the capability to change sex expression over several years of growth (Ueda 1988). Sex expression is known to be flexible in many plants (Schlessman 1988) and to be affected by various hormonal and environmental factors (Meagher, 1988, and references therein)."

I hope that helps to clarify any confusion. This publication is downloadable on the web (free) in pdf format, as is Saunders' monograph for Schisandra.

My wild type plants are in the ground (second photo). Two flowers appeared last season - no fruit. Flowers are unisex, and these flowers were almost certainly staminate. My two hybrids are in containers and are growing well into the canopy of a Japanese maple. I will cut these before bringing them in for the winter. What I will do is root the cuttings over the winter, and make those available to buy in the spring. The seeds of the hybrids are distinctly larger than those of the wild type, as are the fruit. I was only able to obtain a few hybrid seeds because I was acquainted with someone in the trade in Taiwan who sadly, is no longer with us. I have two strong hybrid plants (first photo) and a dozen or so wild type. The only reliable horticultural information I've found I've had to translate from Chinese, but K. coccinea is not difficult to grow. I've had zero losses. I have three strong K. heteroclita plants as well, which produce a greenish fruit, and I have a good hunch that quite a few of the "K. coccinea" seeds that get sold through the web are in fact K. heteroclita.





elouicious

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2022, 12:20:59 PM »
more great info cdin-

I believe you got the plants from RevivalR00ts, where I sourced two of mine-

in my experience they have two "phases" of growth. the first is what you described, the second is when they start to vine and really take off-

if you look at my previous post in this thread you will see the first plant from tradewinds has entered the second "phase" while mine from RevivalR00ts are still in the first "phase". my tradewinds plant was 3y before it took off, putting it in the ground helped a lot

W.

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2022, 04:14:42 PM »
From Monograph of Kadsura (Schisandraceae), Richard M.K. Saunders; Systemic Botany Monographs, Vol 54 (June, 1998):
"Species of Kadsura are generally described as monoecious, although they often superficially appear to be dioecious. The only study of the sexuality of the genus was conducted by Okada (1971), who found separate monoecious and dioecious plants of K. japonica in natural populations in Japan. This would appear to be similar to the results reported for the related species Schisandra chinensis, which, although monoecious, has the capability to change sex expression over several years of growth (Ueda 1988). Sex expression is known to be flexible in many plants (Schlessman 1988) and to be affected by various hormonal and environmental factors (Meagher, 1988, and references therein)."

I hope that helps to clarify any confusion. This publication is downloadable on the web (free) in pdf format, as is Saunders' monograph for Schisandra.

My wild type plants are in the ground (second photo). Two flowers appeared last season - no fruit. Flowers are unisex, and these flowers were almost certainly staminate. My two hybrids are in containers and are growing well into the canopy of a Japanese maple. I will cut these before bringing them in for the winter. What I will do is root the cuttings over the winter, and make those available to buy in the spring. The seeds of the hybrids are distinctly larger than those of the wild type, as are the fruit. I was only able to obtain a few hybrid seeds because I was acquainted with someone in the trade in Taiwan who sadly, is no longer with us. I have two strong hybrid plants (first photo) and a dozen or so wild type. The only reliable horticultural information I've found I've had to translate from Chinese, but K. coccinea is not difficult to grow. I've had zero losses. I have three strong K. heteroclita plants as well, which produce a greenish fruit, and I have a good hunch that quite a few of the "K. coccinea" seeds that get sold through the web are in fact K. heteroclita.

Ted, glad you've joined the forum, and thanks for this great Kadsura information. Good to see another Alabama grower on the forum. I have been too chicken to plant mine outside, yet; I am still afraid my winters will kill them off. They are reaching the point where it is getting impractical to keep them as container plants; they really grew a lot over this summer.

How easily does Kadsura root from cuttings? That might be a way I can plant mine outside while keeping backup rooted cuttings in containers.

Ted B

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2022, 06:25:19 PM »
And until now, I was so sure I was the only one in the state that had K. coccinea. I'll have to scratch that taxon off my "I'm surely the only one..." list.  ;)

My problem is similar - too many and too large. The ones in the ground (wild type) are well established, having been there since June, and will soon get a heavy mulching. We'll see what happens.

As for my container plants (hybrids), the mainstems are too large not to attempt rooting (see photo) when I cut them to bring them inside. My success rate in rooting various Schisandra spp. is close to 100%, so I'm thinking there is a good chance of success, especially since K. coccinea apparently remains evergreen in tropical climates, which implies that unlike most Schisandra spp., the time of year may not be a factor in propagating via cuttings.



W.

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2022, 06:31:12 PM »
And until now, I was so sure I was the only one in the state that had K. coccinea. I'll have to scratch that taxon off my "I'm surely the only one..." list.  ;)

My problem is similar - too many and too large. The ones in the ground (wild type) are well established, having been there since June, and will soon get a heavy mulching. We'll see what happens.

As for my container plants (hybrids), the mainstems are too large not to attempt rooting (see photo) when I cut them to bring them inside. My success rate in rooting various Schisandra spp. is close to 100%, so I'm thinking there is a good chance of success, especially since K. coccinea apparently remains evergreen in tropical climates, which implies that unlike most Schisandra spp., the time of year may not be a factor in propagating via cuttings.



You can still claim you were the first person in Alabama to grow Kadsura. I only started growing mine in 2020. Notice earlier in the thread that I quoted your Dave's Garden review from 2017. That review was basically the only bit of practical growing advice I could find online.

Ted B

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Re: any kadsura coccinea successfully planted ?
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2022, 07:57:02 PM »
Ah yes, I see that now. This is one of several new ethnobotanical species I contributed to the Dave's Garden website.

Now that I see there is some interest in this plant, I will make a serious effort to clone each of my two commercial hybrids and will provide updates. One thing about rarities is it's never a good thing to be the only one growing them.

 

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