Author Topic: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2  (Read 897 times)

Upurock

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Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« on: March 28, 2023, 11:37:25 PM »
Hello all,
Need some help getting it done right.
I’ve rooted close to 40-50 cuttings, so fairly new, but at the same time have some experience.
I got stage one almost perfect - once I receive or cut scions, get them rooted within 2 weeks with about 95% success rate, most of them have thick nice roots, a few will have just a few roots and 1 or 2 No roots, so stage 1 is not a problem.
Stage 2 however, planting them in a small pot is not as successful - I only get about 35% survive. They all start out great - getting nice and green ( I root them in a dark box to promote root growth over leaves and berries, so sometimes they grow shoots that are white), but then after 4-5 days I get a few wilt and die, then more and more.
I think I overwater them. I keep them on a balcony with plenty of light and air, but not in direct sunlight, don’t get mold or anything.
So trying to figure out if they get root rot, because when I pull dead ones out, the bottom is stripped, almost no roots or they are hair-like, dry.
Any input will be appreciated.
I root easy varieties - Shangri La, Worlds Best, Thai Dwarf and Chiang Mai 60
Thank you!
Mulberries: Pakistani, White Shahtoot, Thai Dwarf, Worlds Best, Jan’s Best, Valdosta, Maui
Banana: Dwarf Namwah, Ice Cream, Unknown
Mangos: Cogshall, Honey Kiss, Neelam, Ice Cream
passion fruit
Mysore raspberries
Evergl tomatos
Hass Avocado
Jamaican cherry
Barbados cherry
Sugar Apple

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2023, 11:42:19 PM »
Why don't you start them in the pot first so you don't have to transplant them. That seems to be the factor limiting your success.

K-Rimes

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2023, 12:55:28 AM »
Kings mix as a rooting medium, wrap cutting in buddy tape to where it hits the soil, plant in 1 gallon pot. You will not have as many issues going forward.

Some mulberries are not as easy to root. White is very challenging and impossible for most people without lots of experience, Himalayan is not easy either, Pakistani fairly easy. Don't know how many others are for rooting, but World's Best / Dwarf / Thai is by far the easiest. Can't go wrong with rooting lots of those and then grafting them when they're young. They heal very nicely from pencil size and you will have a hard time detecting the union.

You need to stop checking the cuttings for roots as well. If it doesn't pop off and start growing vigorously, be patient, leave it alone till it dries out and dies or pops.

nullzero

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2023, 04:15:40 AM »
Rooted Himalayan Red using Hormex, bottom heat 75F, humidity dome, and peatmoss seedling mix. However still getting less then 50% rooting taking.
Grow mainly fruits, vegetables, and herbs.

fruit nerd

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2023, 05:23:04 AM »
I am a simpleton. I just get a cutting, sharpen a point with a machete then hammer the cutting into the ground. If was guess, I probably have 50% success rate. Could probably improve that with a bit more watering. I use the cuttings for posts and to shade young fruit trees.

Upurock

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2023, 07:26:59 AM »
Why don't you start them in the pot first so you don't have to transplant them. That seems to be the factor limiting your success.
I guess I can try that
I use peat moss/perlite only mix to root in bags, should I use the same for pots? And then use fertilizer after 4-5 weeks before uppotting or transplanting unground after 2-3 month?
Mulberries: Pakistani, White Shahtoot, Thai Dwarf, Worlds Best, Jan’s Best, Valdosta, Maui
Banana: Dwarf Namwah, Ice Cream, Unknown
Mangos: Cogshall, Honey Kiss, Neelam, Ice Cream
passion fruit
Mysore raspberries
Evergl tomatos
Hass Avocado
Jamaican cherry
Barbados cherry
Sugar Apple

skhan

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2023, 07:53:23 AM »
If you have some pictures of your set up that would be helpful.

I would guess that the shock from a humid dark area to a brighter drier area might do a lot of them in.
Consider gradually changing the conditions one at a time.
So expose them to more light gradually but don't also up pot them

roblack

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2023, 09:49:52 AM »
I just shove several fresh cut sticks into dirt filled pots and water like crazy, dappled sunlight. Great takes. Wait till they grow a bit, lots of roots, then pull them up and separate the roots and repot. Can't recall ever losing one when repotting.

Upurock

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2023, 03:12:39 PM »
I just shove several fresh cut sticks into dirt filled pots and water like crazy, dappled sunlight. Great takes. Wait till they grow a bit, lots of roots, then pull them up and separate the roots and repot. Can't recall ever losing one when repotting.
I’ll try that next. Will be trimming Pakistani and worlds best soon
Mulberries: Pakistani, White Shahtoot, Thai Dwarf, Worlds Best, Jan’s Best, Valdosta, Maui
Banana: Dwarf Namwah, Ice Cream, Unknown
Mangos: Cogshall, Honey Kiss, Neelam, Ice Cream
passion fruit
Mysore raspberries
Evergl tomatos
Hass Avocado
Jamaican cherry
Barbados cherry
Sugar Apple

Aiptasia904

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2023, 06:40:34 PM »
I clone a bunch of Thai everbearing every year for people when I prune back my mulberry after first flush. It's almost time for me to do it this year but the flush this season has been so vigorous, we've been picking mulberries for a solid month. Every. Day. I've been reading your posts in this thread and might have a few suggestions.

Peat moss and perlite is a very dry soil mix. They're both hydrophobic, so you might consider doing a slightly different mix for your cuttings and transplants. Maybe go with rinsed/flushed coco coir and the perlite, or mixing in vermiculite instead of perlite if sticking with the peat moss. Vermiculite absorbs water while still keeping the soil loose and friable, so it has it's uses. Even adding in some pine bark fines can add a little moisture to the substrate.

How I do it is lop off a pruned branch, cut the branch into five inch sections, strip off all of the leaves and use my thumbnail to scrape off the bark at the base to expose some of the green cambium layer. Usually, I don't dip it in any rooting hormone at all. I pre-moisten the substrate in a five gallon pot to field capacity (moist, not wet) and jam in the 5" cuttings usually around ten or so to a pot. I stick the pots in full shade for a month before attempting the first tug test. No direct sun. Re-watered if and when I water the rest of my garden depending on rains.

Sometimes the cuttings push new growth immediately and/or stress flower. If they do, I will let them keep one leaf and strip flowers off. Eventually, the majority of them will push out new growth and if it's getting towards the end of the month in the pot, I let them push normally. Then they get the tug test. If there's resistence I will very carefully tease them out of the pot with a spoon or a chopstick or whatever I have handy. Then, I continue to the next. If no resistence and no new growth, I toss the stick. If new growth but no root resistence, I let them sit longer. With no rooting hormone, my average is about 50/50% take. With rooting hormone at 3% I can get about 80% to take.

Phase #2 goes in my own mix these days, which is: Two parts coco coir/peat moss (50/50%), one part vermiculite, one part organics (leaf mulch, pine bark fines, scooped up topsoil from the woods, etc.). I also add either chicken poop compost or osmocote to the mix. Once they start getting fed with a little organic material and compost, their growth is explosive. I put them in 1 gallon pots and then 3 gallon pots after a few months of growth.

One last thing. When they get transplanted into the one gallon pots, you'll want to harden them off. The way I do it, i put them in full sun for an hour, then move them back into full shade. I do that for 3-4 days, then bump it up for 2 hours full sun, then back into the shade. Repeat another 3-4 days increasing the light exposure in full sun by an additional hour. Rinse, repeat. Once you hit six hours full sun, the plants should be hardened off for full sunlight. 

Upurock

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2023, 10:26:20 PM »
I clone a bunch of Thai everbearing every year for people when I prune back my mulberry after first flush. It's almost time for me to do it this year but the flush this season has been so vigorous, we've been picking mulberries for a solid month. Every. Day. I've been reading your posts in this thread and might have a few suggestions.

Peat moss and perlite is a very dry soil mix. They're both hydrophobic, so you might consider doing a slightly different mix for your cuttings and transplants. Maybe go with rinsed/flushed coco coir and the perlite, or mixing in vermiculite instead of perlite if sticking with the peat moss. Vermiculite absorbs water while still keeping the soil loose and friable, so it has it's uses. Even adding in some pine bark fines can add a little moisture to the substrate.

How I do it is lop off a pruned branch, cut the branch into five inch sections, strip off all of the leaves and use my thumbnail to scrape off the bark at the base to expose some of the green cambium layer. Usually, I don't dip it in any rooting hormone at all. I pre-moisten the substrate in a five gallon pot to field capacity (moist, not wet) and jam in the 5" cuttings usually around ten or so to a pot. I stick the pots in full shade for a month before attempting the first tug test. No direct sun. Re-watered if and when I water the rest of my garden depending on rains.

Sometimes the cuttings push new growth immediately and/or stress flower. If they do, I will let them keep one leaf and strip flowers off. Eventually, the majority of them will push out new growth and if it's getting towards the end of the month in the pot, I let them push normally. Then they get the tug test. If there's resistence I will very carefully tease them out of the pot with a spoon or a chopstick or whatever I have handy. Then, I continue to the next. If no resistence and no new growth, I toss the stick. If new growth but no root resistence, I let them sit longer. With no rooting hormone, my average is about 50/50% take. With rooting hormone at 3% I can get about 80% to take.

Phase #2 goes in my own mix these days, which is: Two parts coco coir/peat moss (50/50%), one part vermiculite, one part organics (leaf mulch, pine bark fines, scooped up topsoil from the woods, etc.). I also add either chicken poop compost or osmocote to the mix. Once they start getting fed with a little organic material and compost, their growth is explosive. I put them in 1 gallon pots and then 3 gallon pots after a few months of growth.

One last thing. When they get transplanted into the one gallon pots, you'll want to harden them off. The way I do it, i put them in full sun for an hour, then move them back into full shade. I do that for 3-4 days, then bump it up for 2 hours full sun, then back into the shade. Repeat another 3-4 days increasing the light exposure in full sun by an additional hour. Rinse, repeat. Once you hit six hours full sun, the plants should be hardened off for full sunlight.

Great write up! Thank you.
Do you wrap cuttings in parafilm to prevent moisture loss?
I mean right now it’s fine, but in the summer we get brutal heat in South Florida.
 I was talking more about fall cuttings to get them propagated inside to be ready for spring planting. 
Mulberries: Pakistani, White Shahtoot, Thai Dwarf, Worlds Best, Jan’s Best, Valdosta, Maui
Banana: Dwarf Namwah, Ice Cream, Unknown
Mangos: Cogshall, Honey Kiss, Neelam, Ice Cream
passion fruit
Mysore raspberries
Evergl tomatos
Hass Avocado
Jamaican cherry
Barbados cherry
Sugar Apple

achetadomestica

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2023, 10:57:56 PM »
Everyone seems to have their own way they prefer to root mulberries.
The four types you are rooting are usually fairly easy.
Do you think the Chiang 60 is different than the World's Best?
I was told the Chiang 60, World's Best and Thai dwarf are all the same?
I have all 3 but the Chian 60 and World's Best are small and I can't compare
the fruit yet. They all 3 look identical
One way I have done them not mentioned is to cut the ends diagonally
and place 4-5 cuttings in a glass of rainwater. I put them on a southern
window ledge. In a month or so they begin to root. Change the water every
3-5 days Once I see some roots I put in a one gallon pot.

this year I did some contorted, Jan's Best and Valdosta mulberries.
I placed the cuttings one per 3 gallon pot with barely damp peat.
Only water maybe once a week at first and don't drench. If you keep them too
wet they rot before they can root. I got 9 out of 10 contorted to root
2 out of 6 Jan's Best and 5 out of 6 Valdosta to take. I put them on the West side of
a large Thai jujube so the cuttings are getting 1/2 day of afternoon sun.

I am getting one garbage can of free dirt each week so once I set them up
it's fairly low maintenance. I did do 7 Shangri La this week but I put them on
my porch in indirect light

Upurock

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2023, 07:07:44 AM »
To tell you the truth, my Worlds best are exactly 1 year old this month and they are loaded with beautiful 1.5-2 inch berries that do look and taste like Thai dwarf. WB is by far more prolific than Thai dwarf that I got from nursery and is older than WB but been in the ground the same time.
CM 60 just getting big enough to be put in a ground or pot so can’t comment on that yet.
Mulberries: Pakistani, White Shahtoot, Thai Dwarf, Worlds Best, Jan’s Best, Valdosta, Maui
Banana: Dwarf Namwah, Ice Cream, Unknown
Mangos: Cogshall, Honey Kiss, Neelam, Ice Cream
passion fruit
Mysore raspberries
Evergl tomatos
Hass Avocado
Jamaican cherry
Barbados cherry
Sugar Apple

Aiptasia904

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2023, 08:06:22 AM »

Quote

Great write up! Thank you.
Do you wrap cuttings in parafilm to prevent moisture loss?
I mean right now it’s fine, but in the summer we get brutal heat in South Florida.
 I was talking more about fall cuttings to get them propagated inside to be ready for spring planting.

Nope, stripping off the leaves is sufficient to halt transpiration. I don't cover them or enclose them for fear of roasting/steaming them in the summer. I just put their pots in full shade and water the pot twice a week or so. Starting them inside or pruning while they're dormant for winter starts would be fine. I might be tempted to use a heating pad under their pots.

Quote
One way I have done them not mentioned is to cut the ends diagonally
and place 4-5 cuttings in a glass of rainwater. I put them on a southern
window ledge. In a month or so they begin to root. Change the water every
3-5 days Once I see some roots I put in a one gallon pot.

I wish I had better luck doing that. Even if I change out the water and add 3% hydrogen peroxide to the water jars, my plants usually don't root in full water and succumb to rot. So, I tend to stick to soil or vermiculite. For harder-to-root plants, I like to make cuttings at second year growth and then use a much stronger rooting hormone, either Dip-n-Gro or Hormex #16. Hormex comes in several different strengths and #16 is their next-to-highest concentration of indole-butric acid (sp?), recommended for difficult woody plants and tree clones. Dip n Gro is a liquid concentrate and can be mixed for higher dosage dipping. The only thing I hate about dip-n-gro is the very short shelf life once it's mixed up with water. I don't use it unless I have a crap ton of cuttings to do because of so much wasted product as it only keeps for about an hour after it's prepared.

achetadomestica

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2023, 09:34:52 AM »
Rooted Himalayan Red using Hormex, bottom heat 75F, humidity dome, and peatmoss seedling mix. However still getting less then 50% rooting taking.

Have you or  Aiptasia904
or anyone else rooted White shatoot with the hormex or dip n grow?

Oolie

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2023, 02:32:47 PM »
Rooted Himalayan Red using Hormex, bottom heat 75F, humidity dome, and peatmoss seedling mix. However still getting less then 50% rooting taking.

Have you or  Aiptasia904
or anyone else rooted White shatoot with the hormex or dip n grow?
I've tried and failed on several occasions.

roblack

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Re: Help with rooting mulberries - stage 2
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2023, 04:06:04 PM »
With most varieties I've tried, good ole stick-it-in-the-dirt method is best because cheapest and easiest, with great outcomes. No need to unnecessarily overcomplicate things.

 

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