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Messages - Squam256

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1
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: NDM vs NDM#4
« on: July 28, 2023, 12:01:23 PM »
There are more than 30 numbered- types of Nam Doc Mai in Thailand.

The first ones to be introduced to the US in the 1970s by Robert Knight were NDM #8 and 11. These are vigorous, vertical growers and not very precocious. They account for most of the older (talking 30+ year old) NDM trees youíll find in Florida.

The #4 is now the dominant NDM in the nursery trade here, due to a more compact growth habit and higher precocity. I personally do not like it due to the tendency for fruit splitting.

We currently grow the #4, Nam Doc Mai Sia Tong (the ďGoldenĒ NDM) and the NDM Mun. The Mun has been the most productive of these, produces fuller size fruit compared to Sia Tong and rarely ever splits. Supposedly it can be eaten green as the other iterations of NDM arenít typically consumed this way, but Iíve only had it ripe. I donít find much difference in flavor in any of them personally though I imagine thereís some minute differences.

2
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Sensation mango from South Florida
« on: April 28, 2023, 12:27:07 AM »
About 11 years ago, I used to harvest an old orchard in Jupiter that once belonged to the Pennock family. Among the the various older cultivars in that orchard (which included multiple Haden, Edward, Kent, Keitt, Zill, and even one rare Fascell) were several large Sensation trees.

The fruit were beautiful, and the trees extremely productive in on years. I consider it as one of  the worst mangos Iíve ever had the displeasure of working with, and we never added it to the collection in West Palm at the Sturrock property because itís such a piece of garbage.

Now I want it, would be placed next to the road with a sign please take one and only one.  Kidding.

But, do share Alex, what made it so bad?  Production, taste, ....... all of the above???

It was mealy, bland, developed internal breakdown easily and generally tasted nasty because it went overripe quickly .

3
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Sensation mango from South Florida
« on: April 26, 2023, 11:24:57 PM »
About 11 years ago, I used to harvest an old orchard in Jupiter that once belonged to the Pennock family. Among the the various older cultivars in that orchard (which included multiple Haden, Edward, Kent, Keitt, Zill, and even one rare Fascell) were several large Sensation trees.

The fruit were beautiful, and the trees extremely productive in on years. I consider it as one of  the worst mangos Iíve ever had the displeasure of working with, and we never added it to the collection in West Palm at the Sturrock property because itís such a piece of garbage.

4
Happy to report an update on the white piri scions from TAF! I've purchased Mahachanok scions from a forum member 3 weeks ago with no pushing activity yet. One of the white piri scions I got from TAF 1 week ago has already pushed through the buddy tape!!!! Didn't expect to see that happen so quickly, but definitely glad with this result 😀








Thank you for ordering from us and for sharing, Congratulations on your success. White Piri is really great.

5
Peach cobbler- mine, no flowers, 5' tall, in ground 2yrs.  It's definitely growing, but no panicles.. yet.
M4- dozen fruit & 2 flowering panicles
Pickering- dozen fruit

Alex, how's Bombay with mbbs & anthracnose for you?
Thanks for your great post.

Bombay is very resistant to MBBS and doesnít have anthracnose problems in our location. It is extremely prone to powdery mildew but given how easy that is to control, it wouldnít be what would deter me from growing it.

Its big drawbacks are that it develops into a hyper vigorous tree (even with no N or irrigation) and struggles to bloom consistently in SFL. We have two mature Bombay trees, one had a full bloom and looks to have a very good crop, the other larger one had very little bloom at all.

In areas that receive more cool weather than us (west coast and central FL) it will have a better opportunity to fruit more consistently as long as the grower has space for it and is willing to make a few anti-PM applications in winter.

6
I currently have 5 grades for ease of flowering for mango in south Florida:. A few examples provided with each category. Some are disputable as to which group they belong but this is a rough projection based on recent past behavior. Stem age plays a major role as well, and I canít emphasize enough that you want to get your pruning done before the end of August here to avoid late flushes of growth, and to avoid over feeding the trees to lessen the likelihood of that as well.

Grade 1/Very Easy : These are precocious, and frequently blooming before the New Year regardless of what kind of weather we see. Rosigold, Edward, Dwarf Hawaiian, Rosa

/Grade 2/Easy : these can achieve decent blooms off less than a week below 60F depending on the age of their stems. A solid week will make most of them achieve majority blooms.
Angie, Pickering, Ah Ping, Jean Ellen, Ice Cream, Super Julie

Grade 3/ Medium some bloom after a week or less but not majority of canopy depending on stem age. 10 days with lows below 60F is typically enough to get a majority bloom.
Haden, Baileyís Marvel, Glenn, most Thai mangos and most old Florida varieties

Grade 4/ Difficult Will flower inconsistently unless they receive multi-week cold fronts. Usually very unprecocious. Sweet Tart, Alphonso, Mulgoba, Peach Cobbler, Bombay

Grade 5/ Extremely Difficult/ Near Impossible These likely require 2+ weeks *untinterupted* lows in the 50s/40s plus optimal stem age and 6+ years of total tree maturity to achieve full blooms here(growth flush needs to be hardened off before end of August and cold front must be January or later). In reality, Most winters here theyíll either fail to bloom completely or just throw a couple panicles here or there. Sindhri, Dasheri, Gilas, Anything from northern India or Pakistan.




Groups 3 and 4 are the problem for people in Palm Beach, Broward, and Miami-Dade, and maybe even the Treasure Coast now too. Due to a lot of trees in the nursery trade being in those categories.

On the other hand, trees in group 4 and 5 should do well in California and some group 4 maybe central /West Florida
I have grafted Ah Ping and taking a look at Jean Ellen. Is there any other varieties that could be added to grade 2 maybe Cecilove?

Cecilove appears to be in group 2 yes.

We actually had some significant drought stress bloom on some of our Cecilove trees this month.

7
Flavor:
1. White Piri
2. Ice Cream

3. Little Gem

Tree performance:

1. Little Gem

2. White Piri








3. Ice Cream

8
Dam those are all good!Ice cream for me gets very bad MBBS

Ice Cream is an MBBS magnet and the yield sucks even when it fruits well because of how small the fruit is.

 I can only imagine how many Florida home owners have planted Ice Cream trees they bought from Home Depot or whatever and never see fruit from them.

9
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Creme Brulee Mango
« on: April 16, 2023, 08:46:20 PM »
Nice to hear.

Do you think it has benefited from the lack of rain for the last several weeks? (although that has changed this week)

How have other mango that you have tasted so far this season compared to par for the variety in the past?

The dry weather would have been good for it but the rain while the fruit was maturing would have had a deleterious impact on the fruitís quality. As far as I can tell though there was no noticeable effect from the rain.

 I didnít let it tree ripen though, harvested it while fully firm with just the smallest hint of yellow color break. When Creme BrŻlťe tree-ripens itís more likely to get uneven ripening. This o e was perfect.

Everythingís been pretty good so far. Prior to this Creme BrŻlťe the best fruit so far this year has been Ugly Betty. But the dwarf Hawaiian, Rosigold, Edward and early Carries have all been on point as well, and some early Pivas Iíve been eating are tasting above average for that variety.

10
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Creme Brulee Mango
« on: April 16, 2023, 06:33:09 PM »
Ate one of these today. Flavor was incredible. Just indescribably awesome.

Measured the Brix and it was about 26.

Some pics of the developing summer crop on the topworked tree:






11
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Amrapali Mango
« on: April 15, 2023, 04:55:40 PM »
Iím now convinced our planted one is a fake, foliage looks different from our real Amrapali . It was always suspect, and we never took budwood from it for this reason. Whatever it is, it Still has yet to fruit.

Our real Amrapali, which is a topwork, has fruited every year despite getting badly outgrown and overcrowded by its stump mate, and always tastes superb. I think itís definitely an Indian variety worth trialing here but hardly anyone has them.
Ok, that's good to know.  Thanks, Alex.  Could you remove a lot of the stump mate so you get more Amrapali to propagate?

We will likely topwork a different stump into Amrapalli. The stump mate on the existing tree is Juliette, and we need it to help extend the season on our Indian-flavored shipping boxes.

12
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Amrapali Mango
« on: April 15, 2023, 11:49:21 AM »
This must be one of the Indian varieties that needs cold weather to stimulate bloom.  I considered it when Alex told me it was a small tree, but it's probably a good thing I never ordered it.

Iím now convinced our planted one is a fake, foliage looks different from our real Amrapali . It was always suspect, and we never took budwood from it for this reason. Whatever it is, it Still has yet to fruit.

Our real Amrapali, which is a topwork, has fruited every year despite getting badly outgrown and overcrowded by its stump mate, and always tastes superb. I think itís definitely an Indian variety worth trialing here but hardly anyone has them.

13
We got pummeled by the monsoon today. Made it very difficult to get anything done. Lots of fruit on the ground of course but the crop is so strong that it shouldnít matter too much.

 Hopefully no more of it anytime soon though

14
Also want to note that With regards to this discussion about the checklist ďfeeĒ , itís really just a deposit towards the cost of the first scion. It only becomes a fee if people decide not to pay the invoice. Thatís not what this situation was about .

15
Pretty sure that they will refund you and you will have to place another order that's how their system works. 30 minutes after I place my order I realized that I wanted to add more. I just made another order and paid the fee. I'm thinking he has many things going on and I don't want to trouble him with something miniscule as the price of a cup of coffee and a donut.☕️🙂

Even if you place 2 separate orders in the same week, both fees get applied as a credit towards the invoice. Although we are likely going to change the deposit figure for larger orders.
Hi Alex,
Since I was not refunded yet, is it possible to swap to a different variety? I have a lot of cultivars I am looking for.

Alex

Unfortunately Youíll need to submit a new checklist on the website. We do all the budwood checking on Sunday only. We processed the refunds this evening.

We do allow people to request dormant material in lieu of scions with active buds when they arenít available for specific varieties, but you have to contact us in advance to let us know.

16
Pretty sure that they will refund you and you will have to place another order that's how their system works. 30 minutes after I place my order I realized that I wanted to add more. I just made another order and paid the fee. I'm thinking he has many things going on and I don't want to trouble him with something miniscule as the price of a cup of coffee and a donut.☕️🙂

Even if you place 2 separate orders in the same week, both fees get applied as a credit towards the invoice. Although we are likely going to change the deposit figure for larger orders.

17
I requested and paid for my scions over a week ago. How long does taf typically take to contact you to ship them, and ship them?

The request lists get checked on Sundays and invoices emailed on late Sunday nights and Monday.

Mine must have got forgotten. It's been 2 Sundays and Mondays with no invoice or anything.

If you didnít receive any invoice and itís not in your spam folder , then the list likely checked as nothing ready, in which case youíll receive a refund on the deposit this week. Normally you would have been notified of this by now but we are running behind after receiving checklists for close to 1,000 scions this last week and were short staffed on Sunday.

18
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Maria Black avocado
« on: April 09, 2023, 11:23:20 AM »
I tried this avocado around November or December and it was pretty nice. Not better or even comparable to Hass though. That strikes me as hyperbole. Like when the so-called Carla avocados get compared to Hass.

It was more comparable to a better quality Monroe or Choquette. Maybe somewhere between that and Oro Negro.

19
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mangos - trouble with new growth
« on: April 09, 2023, 11:20:11 AM »
Likely damage from Thrip-type insects. Very common this time of year unfortunately.
Subsequent growth flushes should be okay, right?

Most likely assuming they occur a month + from the current one, at least thatís how itís been historically.

They can be difficult to treat without really hardcore stuff but since itís temporary we donít bother. Frustrating for young trees though.

20
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mangos - trouble with new growth
« on: April 08, 2023, 07:35:15 PM »
Likely damage from Thrip-type insects. Very common this time of year unfortunately.

21
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango April bloom
« on: April 08, 2023, 10:46:21 AM »
Weíve got lots of drought stress bloom going on. All the Carrie trees come to mind but lots of other stuff too like Cecilove, Saigon, San Felipe, Mahmoud Vikarabad and a bunch of others.

22
I requested and paid for my scions over a week ago. How long does taf typically take to contact you to ship them, and ship them?

The request lists get checked on Sundays and invoices emailed on late Sunday nights and Monday.

23
My orange sherbet over the last two seasons has had partial bloom. Does orange essence bloom more consistently than OS?

Not really from what weíve seen.
Thank you Alex! As far as the Citrus profile OS and PPK are as about as good as it gets in consistency of bloom. I still have the Lemon Zest that you grafted onto Piva for me. It is having the desired effect of throttling LZ a tad bit. I guess with adding Super Julie and Ah Ping and maybe Rosi Gold I will have fine tuned My Personal Collection as much as possible. The only thing I may do differently next season is use Dynapro bloom.


Thatís encouraging to read, because the other Lemon Zests we grafted onto Piva just seemed to grow like normal vigorous trees.

24
My orange sherbet over the last two seasons has had partial bloom. Does orange essence bloom more consistently than OS?

Not really from what weíve seen.

25
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2023 Mango Season
« on: March 29, 2023, 10:14:52 AM »
Anyone have a forecast from what they're seeing now as to the peak of the season this year? I am considering a trip out to FL again, was a blast last year but was at the tail end. Don't want to miss it this year if it's truly as epic as y'all are saying.

Mid-June in West Palm Beach.

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