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Messages - Squam256

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango variety similar to Peach cobbler?
« on: January 03, 2023, 12:20:02 AM »
As John mentioned, I loosely group Peach Cobbler with a few other mangos under the classification ďGary citrusĒ, including Seacrest, Orange Essence, and Gary itself depending on growing location and vintage. This is distinctive from what Iíve called the ďBurmese citrusĒ group. PPK, Orange Sherbet, Lemon Zest, and  the Indian mangos Mallika, Dasheri being examples of this.

Seacrest and Orange Essence are both fairly vigorous trees in our experience, while Gary is more of a collectorís mango.

One of the Zill hybrids we grow, 40-17, is pretty impressive and probably belongs in this Gary citrus group with its tangelo notes. The tree has been a pretty compact grower relative to the others mentioned. Much less vigorous. Weíve received very few inquiries about it since itís unnamed and we havenít had much info to offer on it.

Iíve always felt the name Peach Cobbler was a misnomer. Sampled blind, almost nobody would make the peach comparison when trying it.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruit trees I gave up on
« on: December 30, 2022, 11:33:03 PM »
This coming spring I plan on making room in my yard for as yet undetermined varieties. 

Slated for the axe are:

Excalibur Mamey. After 12 years of die back and no fruit, this one goes for sure.

Thatís too bad . Our Excalibur mamey has fruited and itís outstanding, albeit a slow growing/compact tree (which I suppose is a benefit to some). Very bright red flesh too.

Are you growing other mamey varieties? I ask because some donít self pollinate well.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pineapple Pleasure Productivity
« on: December 26, 2022, 09:41:04 PM »
Squam256, why do you think they were disappointing in flavor last summer?  What changed by the end of the season?


We had a really bad week of rain in the early part of June around the time a tropical system rolled through much of the southern part of our state. Itís not unusual for sustained heavy rainfall to have a negative impact on the flavor of many mangos. However, this impact is usually gone within a week or less of dry weather pattern returning.

This year though, that effect on the flavor actually spanned several weeks. Most varieties had recovered by the end of June but Pineapple Pleasure didnít turn the corner until sometime in July, by which time most of its crop was through.

We knew the rain was the culprit because the fruit harvested in April and May was very good.

Hi lighted section is the disappointment:

Meaning you wanted the cold weather to last longer?

Correct. 5 nights below 60F will trigger bloom on sensitive and ďtropicalĒ cultivars. For example, all the remaining uninitiated canopy on our Edward, Rosigold, Rosa and Dwarf Hawaiian trees will go, as well as some amount of canopy on varieties like Angie and Pickering , mostly the very mature stems on those.

But a good chunk of varieties with a normal or difficult trigger will do little or nothing off of this. The only benefit to them will be that it will help keep them dormant despite the rainfall. Most of the stuff that had late growth flushes in Fall will also stay put, which is another reason why you want to get your mango pruning done before the end of August in this part of Florida.

So hopefully weíll have a nice extended period of sub-60F temps here at some point in January.

Hi lighted section is the disappointment:

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pineapple Pleasure Productivity
« on: December 22, 2022, 09:07:52 PM »
Weíve had very little trouble getting the Pineapple Pleasure trees to flower in coastal West Palm Beach, even in mild winters.

But without proper disease control and good nutrition, most back yarders wonít see much fruit from them.

Theyíve been one of the best of the Zill hybrids in flavor, and their flavor/size combination is unparalleled. Canít think of another variety capable of producing 2, sometimes 3 pound fruit with that level of flavor.

This year they were a surprising dud on taste though for about 80% of their season. They finally rebounded towards the end but I actually stopped harvesting them for a few weeks because I was so disappointed in them last summer.

Iím expecting a major comeback from them in 2023 Though.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Colder than normal winter in Florida 22/23?
« on: December 22, 2022, 11:34:38 AM »
Any thoughts on who was right at this point? Was it Farmer's Alminac or the TV guy?

So far in the tricounty southeast area where weíre located, I believe weíve been above historical average in our nightly low *every single night* this month. This cold front thatís approaching will give us a week of temps below or right about at historic average.

 After 1 week, the lows shoot up to the upper 60sF (so basically 10+ degrees above average).

So thus far Iíd say weíve had yet another warm winter. Weíve also seen a little too much rainfall as well. This one week event will spring some bloom on some trees here while plenty others will stay dormant.

Hopefully the second half of January brings enough cold to get a good bloom on both mangos and lychees. An uninterrupted 2 weeks with lows below 60F is what we want (and almost never get anymore). The central and gulf coast part of Florida will probably get that at least.

In Florida, Alampur Baneshan and Imam Passand are the same mango, so in actuality youíd be choosing between Imam Passand and Ice Cream. I would probably choose Imam Passand over Ice Cream even though Imam Passand cracks open on the tree a lot. Ice Creamís yields are a joke and itís prone to mango bacterial black spot.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Colder than normal winter in Florida 22/23?
« on: November 14, 2022, 08:57:13 AM »
We can only hope. Currently weíre well above average in nighttime lows.

My (unscientific) prediction is for another warm winter where we are in Southeast Florida. We donít really get winters here anymore.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Taralay Mango
« on: November 13, 2022, 09:07:07 PM »
I have a tree planted, its around 10ft.
I should get fruit next year so if i forget to mention let me know.

I haven't had it in a while but in the world of indochinese flavors, Zinc and Cac have my heart

Those two are great, and a lot better than Taralay

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Taralay Mango
« on: November 06, 2022, 01:00:53 AM »
Well the taralay mango seems to grow super well here but it barely set any fruit and many of them were mis shaped.  Have you guys in FL seen the deformed fruit? 

I'm going to have to top work several taralay trees.  It's one of the strongest growers too but seems like the fruit are a fail here.

Not that impressed with the fruit. Iíve had good ones but a number of mediocre examples as well that tasted like early season Duncans. We have one producing-size tree in the ground that has failed to fruit multiple years,  though in its defense it is planted in a bad spot.

Itís been out in the wild long enough that you should be hearing some feedback on it from the general public by now. The fact that you arenít seeing that is probably a red flag, but the jury is still out.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Avocado Scion Wood
« on: October 17, 2022, 11:33:48 PM »
Weíve fruited Nishikawa and Malama here. Both are excellent. We have a San Miguel with fruit on it for the first time.

Nishikawa has fruited successfully in other parts of Florida (particularly southwest Florida). I think the Hawaiian cultivars deserve more trial here and thereís probably a market for their budwood.

(Can't remember my YouTube login) but wanted to know why Kathy is no longer on your list. That mango moved into my top five this year.

We still grow Kathy but the tree has been too unhealthy to take budwood from the last several years. I have a second one in a pot that I had been intending to plant and remove the old one but the old one has looked better as of late.

Does Sophie frey produce better than Julie. Why did the Zill family choose that particular seedling. Was there any particular trait that they observed with that particular seedling.

I think it produces more female flowers than Julie so itís capable of fruiting better than Julie with a full bloom. But it hasnít flowered as easily as Julie thus far. Itís also a clearly more vigorous tree.

I think it got selected because it had a different flavor than Julie but Iím not sure the Zills were terribly high on it. They had planted a bunch of Sophie Frey seeds in a patch that they intended to use for rootstock but they became overgrown. One of these was the original Carrie mango.

8:00pm eastern time
Anyone is welcome to participate , here is the YouTube link:

Sweet Tart
Purchased from Excalibur. Now hereís a mango whose reputation precedes itself.  My family grows this mind-blowing fruit so I have really high expectations.  The mango I acquired looked a bit undersized and perhaps picked early.  Still very green exterior, but it was getting soft so it was time to eat.  Once cut open, it was clear that I waited too long to open this one.  Deep orange color with the flesh near the skin starting to get overly ripe.  All tartness had departed with only sweetness remaining.  I would swear this was a small Mexican Kent based on flavor, fruit appearance, and some fiber near the seed.  Even the seed was Mono.  There was, however, some Indochinese flavor still near the skin.    All said and done, I was thoroughly disappointed with this Sweet Tart.  Iíve had overripe homegrown Sweet Tart and it was nowhere near this poor quality.  Most of the mangos from Excalibur looked like they were picked early (all very green), so Iím a bit apprehensive about future tastings from their selection.  Iím rating this underwhelming experience a 5.5/10 with 2 point loss for flavor, 1 point demerit for eating at the wrong stage of ripeness, another 1 point for breaking my heart, and half a point for potential mislabeled Sweet Tart based on observed characteristics.  In case it needs to be said, do not base your tree buying decision on this review.  I can personally vouch that this is normally a top tier mango that belongs in every backyard.

I would venture to guess that that is an immaturely picked Carrie.

Glad you were able to get some fruit for us, I know itís not easy and the stuff sells quickly.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Guava mango
« on: May 05, 2022, 12:07:30 PM »
I've been wondering what the growth behavior of Guava would be classified as. I have it grafted in on one branch, from that I would guess it would be lanky (long internodes), open and spreading with medium vigor. I've been debating grafting it to it's own seedling and growing the tree (since it seems like ~one of~ the highest quality early season mangoes), but I want an early variety that is easy to manage and is somewhat attractive. My guess is Guava fails in one of those aspects. Anybody that's been growing it for awhile have any feedback on the tree?

Open canopy, spreading habit with long internodes and moderately vigorous rate of growth.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Guava mango
« on: May 03, 2022, 10:42:09 PM »
I'm going to bump this thread up because I think the information that Alex shares in this video is very interesting and I couldn't find it in the forum: Guava is actually Sein Ta Lone from Myanmar:
OK, so why does he classify Guava as Indian/West Indian flavor and Sein Ta Lone as Indochinese flavor?  That sounds contradictory, but maybe he can explain.

I need to edit that entry. Itís a difficult mango to classify in terms of flavor group.

But Guava is definitely the same mango as Sein Ta Lone.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: please help me to ID these mango types
« on: April 23, 2022, 09:11:25 AM »
In the very first photo, the second mango appears to be Peach and the bottom one is likely Haden.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Is this a M-4 mango tree or E4 or CC?
« on: April 16, 2022, 10:19:11 PM »
Appears to be M-4

Thereís a fake Number 11 in the collection of the USDA I believe. You can see pics of it in a Google image search, the fake has a reddish color and

Real number 11 trees do exist in south Florida though as Iíve had Jamaican customers show me the fruit.

Bump for tonight.

Probably going to bring some mangos for the tasting table.

Followed, I hope,  by a visit on Tuesday to Sarasota's Tropical Fruit Society?!??
If only it was a little closer, that's an hour each way on a school night for me....

I donít make it over there very often unfortunately . In fact itís been a couple years. Hard to find the time to do these between having to pull away from the farm and time spent writing the presentations.

I have spoken to the Nokomis club several times in years past.

I'd like to try and go to this. It's open/free to non-members? And there's enough room for visitors? Thanks!

Yes thereís no fee and you donít have to be a member.

To those forum viewers who might be interested in attending I will be giving a talk about mangos to the Manatee Rate Fruit Council in Bradenton, FL this Monday at 7:00pm. Free to the public. Will be covering topics such as the current season, some common existing challenges in mangos, variety discussions and more + Q&A period.

The address for the meeting is Harlee Building/County Fairgrounds, 1303 17th St W, Palmetto, FL 34221

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