Author Topic: Grafted mango varieties never produced mature fruit over 4 consecutive years  (Read 1909 times)

palmcity

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 813
    • Martin County, Fl zone10a
    • View Profile
Regardless of how good a fruit may taste, if it never produces mature fruit.... It is useless to me...

If you also have over 15 varieties of mangos, what grafted trees have produced zero fruit over 4 years when the other varieties of the same size/maturity have produced fruit... I would like to know as I do NOT want to purchase more potentially unproductive trees.

1. Pineapple Pleasure- Huge tree trunk now and fruit always falls off (fungus/male flowers/etc.) I'm keeping it at 6ft till it produces a mature fruit. 4+ years and no mature fruit and this year 5th looks the same.
2. Phoenix = I let it grow since away from the house and 4+ years (this will be the 5th) and zero fruit. Fungus or male flowers primarily appear and disappear.

I have many productive varieties. I do not want to purchase more failures, regardless of taste... Please let me know of your failures...

Squam256

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Mangos, trees and budwood for sale
    • USA, West Palm Beach, FL, 33405, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
    • https://www.facebook.com/TropicalAcresFarms
Naomi and Sindhri both took 7 years to fruit for us. Golek took 6 years I believe.

We have several that may fruit for the first time in 5+ years including Ambrosia, Stringless Manga Blanca, JB2, Shamsul Asamar and Delores. We have others like Anderson and Gilas which will be on year 5 next year I think that have yet to flower.

These are well outside the norm of course. Here most grafted mangos will fruit within 2-3 years of either planting or topworking.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 10:38:38 PM by Squam256 »

Honest Abe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
    • Biscayne Park, FL
    • View Profile
This thread caught my interest.

My NDM is on year 4 and no blooms. Good trunk girth. Itís not a #4 itís the one they grafted popularly prior to that one. No luck with blooms yet either. Iíve had people tell me it was 7 plus years for this grafted variety of NDM. Major bummer as itís my wifeís favorite and I love it as well, And we ainít getting any younger but all good things take time.

Fantasy for thought, imagine if you leave the pineapple pleasure another 4 or 5 years and you have a nice mature tree and a 100 mangoes a year from then on out! Itís such a new one that it might be worth it, I can tell you that from eating Alexís pineapple pleasures that it might me worth the wait. I say donít chop her for a few years.
My Vote.

PSÖmy PP Tree is only a wee lad but i will wait for her and long for her lol.

Good luck!

Johnny Eat Fruit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 356
    • So. California, Huntington Beach. Zone 10b
    • View Profile
You're not alone. This is my six-year-old coconut cream mango tree and still no fruit. If flowers well each year but still no production. I have already begun to top work it.

Will be interesting to see if anything happens this year.

Johnny


Coconut Cream Mango Tree (3-25-2022)

skhan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2262
    • United States, Florida, Coral Springs, 10b
    • View Profile
    • Videos of Garden
My NDM tree didn't give me fruit for around 5 years. Every year after that was fine though

Galatians522

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1659
    • Florida 9b
    • View Profile
I read an article once about how bud wood can revert to the juvenile phase, if a tree is grafted and bud wood is taken from the vigorous growth and grafted again before it can bloom. The more generations that occur without blooming, the more likely it is for the reversion to happen. I think that may be one of the issues people are dealing with if they have a tree that does not bloom for several years and then fruits normally. I suspect this may be the case with some of the newer Zill mangoes that had shortages of bud wood and high levels of demand. Some of the other trees sound like they have disease issues or another problem.

palmcity

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 813
    • Martin County, Fl zone10a
    • View Profile
You're not alone. This is my six-year-old coconut cream mango tree and still no fruit. If flowers well each year but still no production. I have already begun to top work it.

Will be interesting to see if anything happens this year.

Johnny


Coconut Cream Mango Tree (3-25-2022)


My only coconut cream produced mature fruit in year 2.... Then zero mature fruit the following 3 years.. A bloom has pasted this year with none hanging at this time so low odds this year....

On the other hand, my LZ trees had a few years with zero fruit but now that they are larger, they seem to be holding a few more.

I rechecked my pineapple pleasure and Phoenix & found 1 very small pea size fruit with a small black dot on the phoenix (I will spray today)... Low odds but I will try to baby it along.

To many NDM numbers for me to remember also as to which I have. But, I had very slow growth on the original with fruit after the 2nd year reaching maturity and last year also fruit reaching maturity but tree was still small.... So this winter I fertilized heavily knowing it might not fruit and grow vegetative this year.. And that is exactly what is happening with no bloom but good vegetative growth as it definitely needs to be above 3 1/2 ft tall. So I am happy this year with zero fruit.
I did graph NDM to other larger trees and no problems with getting mature fruit off the grafts yearly.






JoeP450

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 928
  • Mahaha Chinook
    • Palm City FL
    • View Profile
Was remarking just yesterday to Nick aka (urbanmangos) how weird of a season my yard is having. Both my sweet tarts and my NDM havenít even flushed yet, the orange sherbet is just now flushing for first time. I get you guys griping about blooms but those trees of mine I mentioned havenít even flushed leaves yet 😭.  His sweet tart is loaded with fruit though other trees he has (heís got a lot lol) havenít bloomed. How to make sense of this, my thinking is itís complex. Read a paper recently that different mango types require different amounts of chill hours to bloom. I have heard Alex mention this is particularly evident with sweet tart. I also think that individual cultivation practices may have an effect beyond what we realize, such as what/when if any any fertilizer is used, timing of pruning, location of trees/exposure to microclimate differences, amount of sunlight.

-Joe
« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 12:42:02 PM by JoeP450 »

palmcity

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 813
    • Martin County, Fl zone10a
    • View Profile
Both my sweet tarts and my NDM havenít even flushed yet.  I also think that individual cultivation practices may have an effect beyond what we realize, such as what/when if any any fertilizer is used, timing of pruning, location of trees/exposure to microclimate differences, amount of sunlight.
-Joe
Similar climate as I'm in Palm City also... Just walked out and 13 of 15 trees with at least 1 limb of sweet tart grafted on it are with fruit. 2 trees have not yet bloomed this year.... Both of these 2 trees are in more shade than the other 13 trees. 1 has a large banana tree competing for sunshine. The other is partially blocked by a live oak limb. Both trees also produced mature fruit last year....

For my 2 trees it looks like less sun exposure to be the reason for the delayed or skipped bloom this year...

JoeP450

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 928
  • Mahaha Chinook
    • Palm City FL
    • View Profile
My point though was that there are two main issues at hand 1) each specific mango cultivar has individual characteristics/needs while also 2) all these mangos are cared for in different ways by individual practices, so in summary itís hard to say exactly what is the blanket right thing to do for all the mangos. Hopefully by enough comments and individual anecdotes a trend may appear. At the end of the day it comes down to the best mangos are sometimes the hardest to produce, you can have 1000 Tommy Atkins or 5 pineapple pleasure and 10 phoenix. Me as individual for person consumption I go for later, but understand how this equation fits different scenarios.

-Joe


palmcity

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 813
    • Martin County, Fl zone10a
    • View Profile
I read an article once about how bud wood can revert to the juvenile phase, if a tree is grafted and bud wood is taken from the vigorous growth and grafted again before it can bloom. The more generations that occur without blooming, the more likely it is for the reversion to happen. I think that may be one of the issues people are dealing with if they have a tree that does not bloom for several years and then fruits normally. I suspect this may be the case with some of the newer Zill mangoes that had shortages of bud wood and high levels of demand. Some of the other trees sound like they have disease issues or another problem.

Interesting possibility......

I actually think a decrease of sunlight due to tree competition shading as the most likely reason for the delaying of bloom on my 2 of 15 sweet tart trees. But it is definitely not the problem with my phoenix tree as about 13 ft tall and about 12 ft broad planted in full sun exposure.

I am very happy that one of my favorite tasting mangos (Sweet Tart) is Also probably my most dependable producer in my yard. Nice having many delicious mangos being so easy to grow......

Updated::: Nope,,, Glen is more dependable in my yard...

IMO someone with 3 or less trees only in their yard needs to be informed of the odds of zero production for many years with some varieties. (The other answer is of course plant more trees as I have thus no problem with a year of a variety not producing)

Another tree that Alex does well with production in prior years posts is Iman Pasand....
In my yard, it flowers and sets small fruit every year. Recently I have gotten some to maturity. However all of my mature fruit are cracked.... Thus a caveat to Iman Pasand at least in my more fungus prone area.

P.S... lol.. Back to Topic::: Please post any of your consistent fruiting Failures.....



« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 02:24:48 PM by palmcity »

Galatians522

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1659
    • Florida 9b
    • View Profile
Sun light is a big deal. It is needed for the tree to produce the sugars and hormones needed to bloom and fruit.

Galatians522

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1659
    • Florida 9b
    • View Profile
One thing that I have not seen mentioned here is the effect of girdling branches. Just for fun, we girdled a single limb on my large Nam Doc Mai tree. That branch (aprox 3" in diameter) was about 25% of the tree canopy but set as many fruit as the rest of the tree put together and bloomed about a month earlier. I think proper application of girdling will have a positive effect on fruit production. The article I went by was for lychee in India, but it appears that the basic principle applies to mango as well. I will summarize here: girdle in September 1/8" or less all the way through cambium. Only girdle trees with branches 3" in diameter or more (Large trees!). Don't girdle more than 50% of the tree any given year.

palmcity

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 813
    • Martin County, Fl zone10a
    • View Profile
One thing that I have not seen mentioned here is the effect of girdling branches. Just for fun, we girdled a single limb on my large Nam Doc Mai tree. That branch (aprox 3" in diameter) was about 25% of the tree canopy but set as many fruit as the rest of the tree put together and bloomed about a month earlier. I think proper application of girdling will have a positive effect on fruit production. The article I went by was for lychee in India, but it appears that the basic principle applies to mango as well. I will summarize here: girdle in September 1/8" or less all the way through cambium. Only girdle trees with branches 3" in diameter or more (Large trees!). Don't girdle more than 50% of the tree any given year.

Similar thoughts here (but not necessarily so precise in tools used and directions... lol) ... I've done some whacking on trees... I've had some success on nongrafted seedling mango trees setting fruit earlier than I would normally expect....

Gone tropo

  • Durian obsessed
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 365
    • Nth Qld Australia, zone 13a
    • View Profile
My NDM already had baby fruits on it at only 12 months old i had to pull them all off, i suspect this year it will also flower and try to produce fruits but I will pull them off again.

bovine421

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1923
    • Shake Rag Rd Fl 9b
    • View Profile
 Air layered a lower branch on a cotton candy that bloomed profusely. The rest of tree flushed  so was contemplating on trying that on sweet tart this coming fall Here's a phoenix graft that I got the budwood from Alex the season before last. Malika took quite a few years to produce but it was worth the wait

« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 08:10:45 PM by bovine421 »
Tete Nene Julie Juliet Carrie Ice Cream Coconut Cream Little Gem  Dot  Mallika PPK  OS  Pina Colada Cotton Candy Buxton Spice Karen Michelle M-4 Beverly Marc Anthony White Pirie Lychee Cherilata Plantain Barbados Cherry

pineislander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2185
    • Bokeelia, FL
    • View Profile
I put in 10 identical Mahachanok trees all in a row, treatment and sun exposure was identical. Every one took 4 years to first flower but made a good crop and they continued this year. All were straight from Zills. Carrie with same treatment next row over fruited year 2.

fliptop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 939
    • SWFL10a
    • View Profile
I've had the opposite issue with a couple grafted trees (NDM#4 & Hawaiian Smith)--they never put on new growth, but kept flowering. I'd pick off the pea-sized fruit and they'd kick out new blooms. Then during the growing season, they grew not but rested until this past winter, when they both started blooming again. Unfortunately, the Hawaiian Smith died in the freezes. The NDM#4 had to get cut back, but at least it seems to now be putting out branches and not blooms

So I'm thinking this might be the same but different issue, if indeed the cause is from the characteristics of particular budwood?

Squam256

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Mangos, trees and budwood for sale
    • USA, West Palm Beach, FL, 33405, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
    • https://www.facebook.com/TropicalAcresFarms
I read an article once about how bud wood can revert to the juvenile phase, if a tree is grafted and bud wood is taken from the vigorous growth and grafted again before it can bloom. The more generations that occur without blooming, the more likely it is for the reversion to happen. I think that may be one of the issues people are dealing with if they have a tree that does not bloom for several years and then fruits normally. I suspect this may be the case with some of the newer Zill mangoes that had shortages of bud wood and high levels of demand. Some of the other trees sound like they have disease issues or another problem.

Interesting possibility......

I actually think a decrease of sunlight due to tree competition shading as the most likely reason for the delaying of bloom on my 2 of 15 sweet tart trees. But it is definitely not the problem with my phoenix tree as about 13 ft tall and about 12 ft broad planted in full sun exposure.

I am very happy that one of my favorite tasting mangos (Sweet Tart) is Also probably my most dependable producer in my yard. Nice having many delicious mangos being so easy to grow......

Updated::: Nope,,, Glen is more dependable in my yard...

IMO someone with 3 or less trees only in their yard needs to be informed of the odds of zero production for many years with some varieties. (The other answer is of course plant more trees as I have thus no problem with a year of a variety not producing)

Another tree that Alex does well with production in prior years posts is Iman Pasand....
In my yard, it flowers and sets small fruit every year. Recently I have gotten some to maturity. However all of my mature fruit are cracked.... Thus a caveat to Iman Pasand at least in my more fungus prone area.

P.S... lol.. Back to Topic::: Please post any of your consistent fruiting Failures.....

Iman Passand does that in West Palm Beach too. But weíre still able to get plenty of edible ones. People who love Iman Passand will even buy the cracked ones actually.

rainking430

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 47
    • USA, Florida, Jupiter Farms
    • View Profile
I have had a similar problem with my trees, but I think mine has been due to continuous tipping. I was taught early on to tip to increase branching / flowering. What wasn't made clear to me is that if done throughout the year this will kill the chances of the tree blooming. Now that I know, from this point on I am only tipping my mature trees at the end of the typical harvest time (I'm thinking July/August), then just leave them alone to get comfy for next season.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2022, 01:09:40 PM by rainking430 »

Brev Grower

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
  • Will trade mango scions
    • USA , Florida, Brevard county
    • View Profile
I have an eight year old Coconut cream which has never held a fruit to maturity. Always infected with fungus on the new leaves and the flowers. There is a lake behind my house that I think contributes to the humidity levels during flowering. A peach cobbler that is 5 years and no fruit yet. I believe it is known to take a little longer to produce. I also have a Maha Chanok tree which is on year 4 without producing, but that I think is because it has been vegetatively growing like crazy. Maybe too much nitrogen in the area it's planted in. My other 30 varieties give fruit fairly consistently. That includes NDM#4.

E.

palmcity

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 813
    • Martin County, Fl zone10a
    • View Profile
I read an article once about how bud wood can revert to the juvenile phase, if a tree is grafted and bud wood is taken from the vigorous growth and grafted again before it can bloom. The more generations that occur without blooming, the more likely it is for the reversion to happen. I think that may be one of the issues people are dealing with if they have a tree that does not bloom for several years and then fruits normally. I suspect this may be the case with some of the newer Zill mangoes that had shortages of bud wood and high levels of demand. Some of the other trees sound like they have disease issues or another problem.

Interesting possibility......

I actually think a decrease of sunlight due to tree competition shading as the most likely reason for the delaying of bloom on my 2 of 15 sweet tart trees. But it is definitely not the problem with my phoenix tree as about 13 ft tall and about 12 ft broad planted in full sun exposure.

I am very happy that one of my favorite tasting mangos (Sweet Tart) is Also probably my most dependable producer in my yard. Nice having many delicious mangos being so easy to grow......

Updated::: Nope,,, Glen is more dependable in my yard...

IMO someone with 3 or less trees only in their yard needs to be informed of the odds of zero production for many years with some varieties. (The other answer is of course plant more trees as I have thus no problem with a year of a variety not producing)

Another tree that Alex does well with production in prior years posts is Iman Pasand....
In my yard, it flowers and sets small fruit every year. Recently I have gotten some to maturity. However all of my mature fruit are cracked.... Thus a caveat to Iman Pasand at least in my more fungus prone area.

P.S... lol.. Back to Topic::: Please post any of your consistent fruiting Failures.....

Iman Passand does that in West Palm Beach too. But weíre still able to get plenty of edible ones. People who love Iman Passand will even buy the cracked ones actually.

Update::: Iman Passand bush/tree produced 2 MANGO without Splitting in my fungus area (fungus on them). Perhaps the 40 - 60 mph winds took off the excess to increase the odds or these 2 larger than previous years split small fruits reaching maturity.












Tastes: Mix of flower/coconut/tropical. Sweet. I wanted it to go overripe to make sure not better that way but I actually preferred the area not overripe vs. overripe areas. More flower tastes appeared near the seed. I enjoyed it for a Variety of Taste addition as no other mango with these tastes mixed in my collection; and it was/is a good tasting mango.

Over all the years, not a good producer for me and NOT recommended for a single homeowner with only 5 trees in the yard.

Had to update and give the mango it's due, as it did finally produce for me.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk