Author Topic: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas  (Read 618 times)

TheORKINMan

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Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« on: November 08, 2022, 01:04:47 PM »
Has anyone grown these before? Saw them on sale at a local garden center here in North Florida and I've never seen them inside the Florida citrus bubble before. Wondering what the taste is like vs the common Owari or Brown Select that we usually see available.

pagnr

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Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2022, 04:47:29 PM »
They were available in Australia a while ago, as I remember they were early and or late ripening selections from Japan, compared to the usual Satsuma variety.
I think the main interest was to expand the market window rather than change the taste maybe.
The Satsuma has a short peak period or ideal ripeness,
and the selections were a few weeks either way.
The UCR page says both  " might be slightly better flavoured than" Kawano Wase

brettay

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Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2022, 10:34:13 PM »
I have grown a Miho for many years.  It is very delicious.  It is much better than Owari which is the main satsuma variety available commercially here in California.  It is much sweeter and more flavorful.  Highly recommended!

-Brett

TheORKINMan

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Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2022, 08:42:04 AM »
I have grown a Miho for many years.  It is very delicious.  It is much better than Owari which is the main satsuma variety available commercially here in California.  It is much sweeter and more flavorful.  Highly recommended!

-Brett

Ooh thanks for the report. I assume I'm probably a couple years away from getting fruit off of them but I'm excited for it

Oolie

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Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2022, 02:24:00 PM »
'Wase' indicates early ripening.

EricSC

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Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2022, 07:32:59 PM »
I have an Okitsu puchased from Costco.  The tree did not grow very big (reason unknown).   I have about 15 to 20 fruits which are turning color right now.  They taste rich with some sour and reasonable sweet.  So it is earlier than Owari which will be ready around end of Dec.

A good tree to have.

TheORKINMan

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Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2022, 07:43:37 PM »
I have an Okitsu puchased from Costco.  The tree did not grow very big (reason unknown).   I have about 15 to 20 fruits which are turning color right now.  They taste rich with some sour and reasonable sweet.  So it is earlier than Owari which will be ready around end of Dec.

A good tree to have.

How long have you had it? Is it in the ground or a container? What I've googled is that these top out between 5-15' tall when fully mature.

jim VH

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Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2022, 11:43:52 AM »
Hi TheORKINMan,

     I have six early ripening satsumas or tangerines In my yard, including Miho and Okitsu, as well as LA Early, Early St. Anne, Changsha Tangerine and Xie Shan, all on Flying Dragon rootstock except Okitsu, which is on Citrange rootstock.   So I went out and picked samples of all but the Xie Shan, which ripens much later than the others, and ate them about thirty minutes ago.  (I'm a bit bloated).

     In order of most to least sweet they are: Miho, LA Early, Changsha, Early St. Anne and Okitsu.
     In order of least to most sour they are: Changsha, Miho, LA Early, Early St. Anne and Okitsu.
     In order of most to least flavorful they are: Okitsu, Miho, Early St. Anne, LA Early and Changsha.

It's said that Flying dragon rootstock promotes earlier ripening, which likely explains why Okitsu, which is a very early ripening variety, is so far down on the sweet and sour scale.  I'm guessing that Okitsu is not as ripe as the others, based on this fact, and will move up rapidly as it ripens further, based on the fact the flavor seems more 'orangey' than the others.

At the moment, Miho is the best eating and I'm starting to eat them.

All of them are much better than Owari, which really doesn't ripen here at all, due to the extremely short growing season of the Pacific Northwest of the United States.  In fact, Owari never reaches full size here, remaining at golf ball size, even when overwintered and allowed to continue growing in the spring.

Miho has a sister called Seto, produced from the same breeding program that produced both of them from their Miyagawa forbearer.   Seto is probably comparable in flavor and sweetness.

Jim.

TheORKINMan

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Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2022, 12:25:58 PM »
Hi TheORKINMan,

     I have six early ripening satsumas or tangerines In my yard, including Miho and Okitsu, as well as LA Early, Early St. Anne, Changsha Tangerine and Xie Shan, all on Flying Dragon rootstock except Okitsu, which is on Citrange rootstock.   So I went out and picked samples of all but the Xie Shan, which ripens much later than the others, and ate them about thirty minutes ago.  (I'm a bit bloated).

     In order of most to least sweet they are: Miho, LA Early, Changsha, Early St. Anne and Okitsu.
     In order of least to most sour they are: Changsha, Miho, LA Early, Early St. Anne and Okitsu.
     In order of most to least flavorful they are: Okitsu, Miho, Early St. Anne, LA Early and Changsha.

It's said that Flying dragon rootstock promotes earlier ripening, which likely explains why Okitsu, which is a very early ripening variety, is so far down on the sweet and sour scale.  I'm guessing that Okitsu is not as ripe as the others, based on this fact, and will move up rapidly as it ripens further, based on the fact the flavor seems more 'orangey' than the others.

At the moment, Miho is the best eating and I'm starting to eat them.

All of them are much better than Owari, which really doesn't ripen here at all, due to the extremely short growing season of the Pacific Northwest of the United States.  In fact, Owari never reaches full size here, remaining at golf ball size, even when overwintered and allowed to continue growing in the spring.

Miho has a sister called Seto, produced from the same breeding program that produced both of them from their Miyagawa forbearer.   Seto is probably comparable in flavor and sweetness.

Jim.

This is why I love this forum. Thank you so much for this info! I have an Owari also but it hasn't fruited yet. I assume being down in 8b it will fruit here with our long growing season.

I'm intrigued by Miho being the best and how the growing environment here will go with Okitsu ripening. About how tall have your trees gotten?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2022, 08:37:14 PM by TheORKINMan »

EricSC

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Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2022, 06:01:31 PM »
It had a good growth after I put it into ground right after purchasing 6 - 7 years ago. Then I moved it to a new location about 6 feet away from a relative big fruit tree and ever since it grows very slow and thin. All my other citrus trees are very vigorous with the same fertilizer schedule. I even grafted it to other trees which are all fine. 

[/quote]

How long have you had it? Is it in the ground or a container? What I've googled is that these top out between 5-15' tall when fully mature.
[/quote]

jim VH

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Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2022, 12:07:47 PM »
Hi ORKINMan,

     I'm not necessarily the best comparison for how your plants will behave.  Because of its cool short growing season, Washington state is not known for its citru-culture; as far as I know, there has not been any commercial production here, although I did give about thirty pounds of Yuzus to someone whose friend used to make Yuzu-Radler for his bar.  But no money was exchanged, so that doesn't really count as being a commercial transaction.

     My Miho is the best eating 𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵, but that's because it is the sweetest of all my citrus.  It does tend to get a bit bland as it ripens further.  That will change as the others get riper and their sugar to acid levels improve.  I know from last year that the Xie Shan, when ripe about a month from now, is superior to any of my other Satsumas, including Miho. 
     This is my first crop of Okitsu.  I've heard it said on this board that Okitsu has very good flavor, so it may well follow the path of Xie Shan and become quite good in the next month or so.

     As far as size goes, again my zone 8, short growing season climate is not a good guide for your zone 9a.  My plants are on the small side for a couple reasons because of this.  Partly because I grow on a Flying Dragon rootstock, which is dwarfing.  This dwarfing allows me to protect my plants, using shelters, form the occasional Arctic blasts that come along once every few years; arctic blasts which would kill any Satsumas dead dead dead.  I prune my plants to keep them within the shelters, which keeps them quite small.
    Also, because of the short growing season, I only get one growth flush, on average, in a year, before winter comes, whereas warmer climates such as yours, could allow more than one.   So your plants will likely grow faster than mine and you can use non-dwarfing rootstocks as well.
    That said, my larger sheltered Satsumas are about three feet tall and the oldest thirteen year old plant is about four feet across.  They've become quite dense and fruit well.  The oldest one has produced about twenty pounds of fruit the last three years.
     My nine year old Changsha is much hardier, having survived 8F in January 2017 with minimal damage.  So I let it grow wild and free and it has reached about eight feet tall, even on a dwarfing rootstock.  My seven year old Ichang lemon, which is said to be hardy possibly to 5F, is on a nondwarfing Poncirus rootstock and has reached about twelve feet tall in that timespan.
     So this might give you some idea of the possibilities for how yours may perform, which I suspect will grow much faster in your milder climate.   

Millet

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Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2022, 04:35:50 PM »
Jim, I have an inground 20-year old Cara Cara orange growing on a Flying Dragon rootstock inside a large greenhouse that is now 11 ft. tall and 15-ft. wide.  The greenhouse is in zone 5.  I think trees on Flying Dragon produce good quality fruit.

jim VH

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Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2022, 11:34:12 AM »
Hi Millet,

That is truly awesome.  I think about buying or building a larger greenhouse, now that I can afford it, but don't quite need it yet.  The only drawback of larger is that it needs more heat, but most of the time it really isn't necessary to heat it, since our zone 8 climate rarely drops below 20F, though when it does, it can be quite brutal.
  Yes, I, too, find that fruit from plants grown on Flying Dragon rootstock is just as large and flavorful as that from non-dwarfing rootstocks, and seems to ripen a couple weeks earlier, important for the very short growing season in my cool maritime climate.

Jim

tedburn

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Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2022, 12:24:43 AM »
High Jim,
that is a very interesting knowledge, that citrus grafted on flying dragon  (FD) ripen sone weeks earlier than on other rootstocks. Due to only smal FD seedlings I only have one FD  grafted wirh different  scions. So if my FD seedlings are a bit latger next year I will have rootstocks for dearf and early fruiting plants  ;). Regards Frank

 

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