pawpaw/cherimoya hybrid?

[TriangleJohn]

I know this has been discussed before but it didn't show up when I searched.

Oddly enough I have a Asimina triloba and a Cherimoya blooming at the same time.

Pawpaws are in the ground and bloomed earlier this Spring like normal, and for the first time they have fruit. We've just survived a wicked heat/drought period and now one branch on one tree is opening a few blooms. These flowers are more prominent than normal but they look full and normal otherwise. None of my pawpaws are named cultivars, they are all seedlings from an orchard of named cultivars so these plants are mixed. Each tree grows and blooms a bit differently and all of them have fruit this year (some have a lot, some are large, some are in clusters...)

The cherimoya is seed grown from grocery store fruit. It is four years old this summer and lives in a large pot in a hoophouse that I close up in the winter and heat to keep it above freezing. It has bloomed before but I have never had any success hand pollinating it. It is covered with flowers, all at different stages.

So neither plant can be moved to the other but I could snip a flower or even cut a branch - but I don't see any insects showing either plant any attention so I doubt they would pollinate it.

If a person were crazy enough to attempt this cross, how should they proceed? Is it even worth it??

[Pancrazio]

I don't think they can cross, they don't even take when grafted. The cross however would be pretty interesting in my humble opinion; it would be probably hardier than any cherimoya and it would be a nice rootstock for anyone growing cherimoya as zone pusher.
Maybe, if it would be used as interstock, it would also make pawpaw and cherimoya compatible.

However I'm just guessing.

[Guanabanus]

Use  a small container or bottle cap to shake pollen into, and a soft watercolor paint brush, preferably horsehair, not nylon, to stick into the female-stage flower to get sticky, then into the pollen and back into the female-stage flower. 

Cherimoya pollen is usually available and fresh in the late afternoon,  Pawpaw pollen is fresh during the heat of the day.

Female-stage flowers may be pollenated a few hours early, if necessary.  Tie or tape the flower closed after pollination, to keep up humidity levels.

You have a rare opportunity, one that I never had--- both these species flowering in the same place at the same time.

[TriangleJohn]

I'm going to try it. I plan on crossing the pawpaw onto the cherimoya. With the cherimoya protected from winter weather it has a better chance of ripening if it even forms fruit. Pawpaw fruit outdoors starting this late in the year would never ripen before frost.

Pawpaw's in this area taste like mild cherimoyas so flavor isn't the big reason to try crossing them. Mostly I would hope that whatever fly is pollinating my pawpaws would also pollinate my cherimoyas, and my cherimoya crosses.

[Coconut]

I'm going to try it. I plan on crossing the pawpaw onto the cherimoya. With the cherimoya protected from winter weather it has a better chance of ripening if it even forms fruit. Pawpaw fruit outdoors starting this late in the year would never ripen before frost.

Pawpaw's in this area taste like mild cherimoyas so flavor isn't the big reason to try crossing them. Mostly I would hope that whatever fly is pollinating my pawpaws would also pollinate my cherimoyas, and my cherimoya crosses.

Excellent, I hope you can develop something delightful, another rare fruit, a papaw hybrid we can enjoy pushing into the tropic.  Keep us posted on your successes & failures so other might be lucky enough to try when those two species flower the same time. In their temperate yard

[luak]

I am growing a few paw-paw's for years and i am also wondering about grafting Atamoya's to my paw-paw's.I am growing a few tropicals now thanks to Adam.The leaves on paw-paw's looks almost indentical to my Atemoya.This is the first year for my Atemoya, so i hope i am able to keep it alive till next spring to do the grafting,probably around May.
I wish that i can push my Atamoya and Jabo a little faster to grow, but i haven find a way yet. I have used F.P 6-3-9 but it stunted their growth, now i use Fish/kelp only and they start growing again but not fast.

[AlexRF]

I once read about the effectiveness of dual-(re)-pollination, including inter- (intra)-generic hybridization.
So you can try at first stage: Cherimoya/PawPaw pollen mix, at second stage (2-4 hours later) - the same mix or only PawPaw pollen.
The idea is that after the first stage the pistil becomes more receptive to "alien" pollen.

[TriangleJohn]

luak - I'm originally from near you (Central Oklahoma) and have been to Eureka Springs a few times. My experience is that things in pots behave differently than things planted in the ground. My cherimoya is one or two years younger than my pawpaws but because it is in a pot it is much smaller.

AlexRF - I'll try that plan. I will use it also for pollinating the cherimoya with cherimoya since just doing it once has never worked in the past.

[AlexRF]

Har,
Cherimoya chromosome number - 14, PawPaw - 18.
It means Cherimoya X PawPaw - maybe..., PawPaw X Cherimoya - no chance. Right?

[luak]

Alex, i do not know if your Paw-paw's are the same as ours.I am pretty decent at grafting,so i will try anything for my self.I am not too smart when it comes to chromasones.It does not look like there are many takers on this issue.It would be great to find a bunch of Atemoya's hanging of my Paw-paw tree's soon.

[Guanabanus]

Alex,

I hear that horses and donkeys cross both ways, but I haven't checked on that.

I would just go ahead and try it when it is easy to do so.

Your suggestion about mixing pollens could probably help.

[AlexRF]

Alex, i do not know if your Paw-paw's are the same as ours.I am pretty decent at grafting,so i will try anything for my self.I am not too smart when it comes to chromasones.It does not look like there are many takers on this issue.It would be great to find a bunch of Atemoya's hanging of my Paw-paw tree's soon.

Luac, all Russian and Ukrainian Paw-Paw's originally derived from US seeds.
As I know chromosome number more important to hybridization and less to grafting.
Somebody grafted successfully Sugar A., Cherimoya or Atemoya on Biriba (n=48!) rootstock?

someone may be interested in:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hybrid/msg1214135122725.html

[AlexRF]

luak - I'm originally from near you (Central Oklahoma) and have been to Eureka Springs a few times. My experience is that things in pots behave differently than things planted in the ground. My cherimoya is one or two years younger than my pawpaws but because it is in a pot it is much smaller.

AlexRF - I'll try that plan. I will use it also for pollinating the cherimoya with cherimoya since just doing it once has never worked in the past.

someone wrote that the double-pollination with a pollen mixture can produce hybrid with 10-25% "father" genes. The resulting fruit can looks like usual. Hybridization effect may occur in the next generation. That is, it is necessary to plant the seeds and wait for new plant fruiting.
Can not do without the friendly assistance. A kind of a feat! 

I will do it too with Annona species of different subgroup in two years, when my young (all 2-4 years old) Annona collection
(about 40 plants of 20 species) begin bloom. Recently started to bloom my two years Annona squamosa! 

[Marsbars]

luak - I'm originally from near you (Central Oklahoma) and have been to Eureka Springs a few times. My experience is that things in pots behave differently than things planted in the ground. My cherimoya is one or two years younger than my pawpaws but because it is in a pot it is much smaller.

AlexRF - I'll try that plan. I will use it also for pollinating the cherimoya with cherimoya since just doing it once has never worked in the past.

Any updates?

[luak]

John, where do you live now? Don't you like Oklahoma anymore? What are you growing, pots or in the ground?
I am slowly going into Tropicals. There is not much info for tropical container growing.
I am too old to move to a tropical climat,so i do the best i can.