Author Topic: Grafting onto large mango tree.  (Read 1799 times)

Timbogrow

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Grafting onto large mango tree.
« on: December 01, 2021, 07:48:05 PM »
I've started grafting onto a large mango tree that is about 1' diameter. It was a very shy producer of mangos that didn't have a great taste so I chopped it down about 4 months ago.so far I've gotten honey kiss and lemon zest grafted to it and just ordered some pina colada scions. I'll post some pictures tomorrow if I get done working before sunset. Just wondering if anyone has done a cocktail trail and gets all the scions to produce fruit. It's more or less an experiment since I have a bunch of grafted trees already. Just started grafting and it is very fun. Thanks for anyone's experience!

pineislander

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2021, 09:27:36 PM »
I'm working on six larger Haden stumps but only one has sprouted well enough to graft onto. I did a lemon meringue scion and it still has green buds but hasn't pushed, maybe because of cooler weather. I doubt that I'll make any cocktails but have a coconut cream to get scions from. I have 30 varieties so if you need free scions I may have.

sunny

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2021, 10:41:10 AM »
Yes i made a cocktailtree with 25 different mango varieties on it. It became an ugly tree though because the new branches don't grow at the same speed and shape.

I had one scion that already fruited before i had taken the grafting tape of, that was chokanan mango..this one can bloom/fruit 4 weeks after grafting.

Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2021, 06:07:03 PM »
Very cool, 25 varieties on a tree sounds amazing! Sounds like you had a lot of fun grafting it! I'm sure you loved that tree besides its looks. Thank you for your input and experience.

Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2021, 06:41:19 PM »
Thank you pine islander that is very generous of you. So far my grafted Nursery trees consist of Glenn, rapoza, lacitilla, Nam doc mai #4, m4, sweet tart, fruit punch, coconut cream, golden nugget, haden, carrie, pram kai mei, pickering, and duncan. I have just 1 mature tree that was here when we purchased the property and it is a heavy producer of fiber less juicy sweet mangos. Maybe I could trade you some seedlings I have growing in the greenhouse. There's some pitangatuba, pitomba, cacao, sugar apple, peanut butter fruit, attemoya, lemon drop mangosteen, imbe. All under 6 mo the old though. Just started growing within the last year.

sapote

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2021, 12:18:22 AM »
I've started grafting onto a large mango tree that is about 1' diameter.

how did you graft small scions to the 1 foot trunk after cut down the large tree?

Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2021, 05:47:47 AM »



Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2021, 05:49:44 AM »
I started putting a bag over the top to help keep them moist. Seems like it helps.

sapote

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2021, 03:22:45 PM »



I'm not 100% sure from the pic, but it seems you did with veneer graft (or bark graft)?

Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2021, 06:38:22 PM »
I did mostly just the v graft. Tried a veneer graft but the bud that pushed out seemed to dry up, even in the bag. The wound looks like it's healed up and the scion is still green so maybe it will push another growth out. The v grafts seemed to be more successful even though the diameter was a little different.

sunny

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2021, 07:07:52 AM »
I did mostly just the v graft. Tried a veneer graft but the bud that pushed out seemed to dry up, even in the bag. The wound looks like it's healed up and the scion is still green so maybe it will push another growth out. The v grafts seemed to be more successful even though the diameter was a little different.

Scions wrapped in parafilm also work great and can be kept in full sun. I also used the v-cleft graft and if the diameters differ you just graft it at the side so the cambium matches on only 1 side....that's fine.

Leave the tape around the graft untill the wound is completely healed...And make grafts as low as possible on the tree, not at the tip of a branch. And make sure the tree doesn't sprout new branches below your graft.

Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2021, 03:09:59 PM »
I moved them over to one side so the cambium was flush. Going to try pina colada next.

Orkine

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2021, 03:31:09 PM »
Did you graft directly on the stump or on the shoot emerging after you stumped the tree. It looks like the later which is how I would topwork a tree that size too.  I am no good with bark grafts on anything larger than an inch or two at most.

Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2021, 09:43:48 PM »
I'm very new to grafting and those were some of the first I tried. I had saved some seeds from my mature tree and have a couple that are growing as well. Some failed but I'm super happy to have a couple on the stump and a couple on some seedlings. I just grafted the emerging shoots on the stump. Bark grafting is probably better since the whole branch is of the same variety but it's more of a beginning experiment for me. I'll just have to keep an eye on them and prune it as needed.

JakeFruit

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2021, 08:32:07 AM »
Assuming you wrap the scion and union in parafilm/buddy tape, there's no need to bag/cover them. Moisture retention is more of a CA/Western US concern. Protecting new grafts that get full sun with a loose aluminum foil wrap during the hottest months might be helpful for the first few weeks, but a moist, stagnant air pocket that gets any amount of light in our region is an ideal place for mold and other unwanted things to grow. I spent a season when I first started covering everything in plastic bags (even my seed starts) because I read it was helpful, it was not (lost all the seeds to mold and the grafts were no more successful). Successful grafts generally take fast in our climate, especially when you are grafting to mature rootstock and/or during the summer months.

I have an ~8" diameter Atalufo tree I've been grafting to for the last two seasons, I consider it my learning tree. Grafts take fast and easy, it's very vigorous. I think I have 16 varieties on it currently; I'm expecting this winter to be my first real chance to see if/how they all flower (last year I only had flowers/fruit from an Atalufo branch I left on). Dealing with the different growth-rates of the varieties can be challenging, but if you have the time and creativity, you can keep the slower varieties from getting crowded out. My plan is to only have ~4 varieties on it in a few seasons, all with around the same maturity time and growth habit. Ideally I'll have 3 cocktail trees in the long run; one early, mid, and late tree to cover as much of the season as I can.

Orkine

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2021, 10:05:05 AM »
Let me share some not so positive experience - something to think about.

First the varieties you graft and where you graft them matter.

I have what I call a nurse tree.  Every variety I have but do not have a stand alone seedling for gets grafted on this tree and my hope is to harvest scions from the grafted branch to put on a seedling when I have rootstock ready and to do this for the varieties that I have tasted and like.  Some of the varieties have flowered and fruited on the nurse tree, which is good news and the question you asked.
Why the varieties matter is they have different growth characteristics.  I have lost a few varieties n the nurse tree because other grafts grew more vigorously and shaded them out eventually the shaded varieties died back.  Iman Passand and other slow growers were most at risk.  I was able to transfer one or two of the varieties that got shaded out to other locations on the tree or to seedlings before they died but some I need to get scions of and re-graft.

Since you have your trees and you are using this to deal with your budding rafting addiction :) (by the way, welcome to the group, many of us will graft even mango in winter :) ) go get 'em tiger!

One last thing.  I had a tree much like yours.  I cut it back and grafted to the shoots and thought the grafts took, I eventually lost the tree.   Since them, my preferred approach is to take the tree down in thirds where possible, never the entire canopy at once.  I grafts to the regrowth from each section I take down but leave enough vegetative growth to keep the tree alive and well and maintain the roots.  I have not lost a tree I top worked this way.  It is slower, takes 2 to 3 seasons to complete a top work which may not be an option in some cases.

I am interested in how your experiment works long term so please do update this link from time to time.

   



Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2021, 05:24:18 PM »
Thanks for the tips and sorry you lost the tree. Season before last season I chopped the top off since it didn't have any fruit. But once I did the heavy pruning it had about 30 really large ones last season. The were just a bit stringy and flowery tasting so I decided to go drastic. It is a really vigorous growing tree. 
I went ahead and removed the bags since the grafts all had leaves anyway.
 Hope it doesn't die like you said. Sounds like it could present a problem not making enough photosynthesis to support the root system.
 Maybe I'll try the bark grafting with a pina colada scion when I get them. As far as the grafting tape I just ordered grafting tape lol, don't think it is parafilm since it does break easily. I'll have to get a roll and try it out.
Will keep updating as things progress keeping my fingers 🤞. 
Thanks everyone for the great tips and interest in this type of project. Wish you all great luck with your plants!

sunny

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2021, 10:32:14 AM »
Don't understimate the difference in growing speed of the varieties..i had a few varieties grafted which grew much faster and taller than the ones next to it...so i had to prune the fast growing varieties often which is not good.

This is also the reason i culled my 25 variety cocktail tree, it got an ugly shape and the new scions didn't bloom fast enough, some never did in 5 years time.

So i would advice to make cocktail tree's out of fast growing varieties only, and another one made of slow/compact growing varieties..And 25 varieties is a bit too much, 5-10 would be better i think.

Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2021, 05:53:40 AM »
I'm wondering if I could get the lemon zest to grow more horizontal and once it gets strong enough tie some rocks onto the branch to get it to start going horizontal? 🤔
I'm really craving a fresh mango from the yard. Got some from the store and they were absolutely terrible, never again will I buy them from the store.

JakeFruit

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2021, 10:01:46 AM »
From what I'm seeing on my tree, Lemon Zest is going to be hard to train upright. It just wants to get lanky and wide. Guava, Sweet Tart and Orange Sherbet are all just as vigorous, but seem to be more inherently inclined to grow upright.

Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2021, 04:54:47 PM »
So lemon zest(vigorous?) , honey kiss (dwarf) has 3 branches coming out and coming soon pina colada(dwarf- compact) may work out good together.

sunny

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2021, 01:57:58 PM »
So lemon zest(vigorous?) , honey kiss (dwarf) has 3 branches coming out and coming soon pina colada(dwarf- compact) may work out good together.

Years ago we made an online list here with all the specifications of the mango varieties...don't know if it's still around..

Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2021, 04:50:13 PM »
Thanks sunny, I'll search for it. Spykes Nursery and pine island has somewhat of a good description of the growth habbits and I've been using those get an idea.
Just grafted the pina colada scions today. Used 2 on some seedlings and 1 on the big stump and watered it a bit.




sunny

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2021, 05:23:57 AM »
Thanks sunny, I'll search for it. Spykes Nursery and pine island has somewhat of a good description of the growth habbits and I've been using those get an idea.
Just grafted the pina colada scions today. Used 2 on some seedlings and 1 on the big stump and watered it a bit.




I think you'll love to see the video's from Indonesia ,which are also posted here somewhere..those guys graft 4 different rootstocks to a mature branch of the tree...

Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2021, 05:59:50 AM »
Of course I do, I'll have to try that next season. Would be super cool!

sapote

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2021, 08:52:51 PM »
I'm wondering if I could get the lemon zest to grow more horizontal and once it gets strong enough tie some rocks onto the branch to get it to start going horizontal? 🤔
Say if you wish to have the LZ moving to the right horizontally, then place a black hole on the left of the tree at the graft union height,  and it will creates the strong gravity needed to fool the tree.

Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2021, 05:48:32 AM »
Great idea, maybe Amazon has a couple I can get. 😆

sunny

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2021, 01:11:08 PM »
Great idea, maybe Amazon has a couple I can get. 😆

Better ask the Challenger crew, i bet they can help you....https://aplanetruth.info/theyre-alive-challenger-crew-found-alive-and-well-30-years-since-the-disaster/

Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2021, 06:47:16 AM »
Update on pina colada scion. Looks to be a successful graft. The honey kiss and lemon zest going strong. The purple leaves are from the original rootstock.




Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2022, 09:47:54 AM »
Here is the updated mango stump project. It's constantly growing like a champ! Looks super happy.




JakeFruit

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2022, 04:42:08 PM »
Did you graft anything else in besides Pina Colada?

Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2022, 05:40:39 PM »
I grafted honey kiss, lemon zest, pickering, Seacrest and pina colada onto it. I just wonder how long until it sets fruit?

JakeFruit

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2022, 08:37:28 AM »
The Pickering (at least) will probably try to set fruit this next season. You need to give some thought to whether you let it hold any fruit yet or not. With the existing root system, you don't need to be concerned with unduly stressing it, but letting it fruit will put load stress on branches that are probably not yet up to holding the weight and somewhat delay the tree getting bigger/stronger. Trying to get ~10 fruit off of it could cost you your shot of getting 50+ fruit off of it next season.


It's not a call you have to make now, and it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Just be aware that any branch(es) you let hold fruit will miss a significant portion of the growing season. You'll probably have to prune with extra care to make sure any fruiting branches still get good light; the other branches will go through a few pushes and could shade-out the fruiting branches (further stunting their development). Heavily-shaded branches don't thrive.

Timbogrow

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Re: Grafting onto large mango tree.
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2022, 11:40:16 AM »
Jake fruit, thank you for the helpfull tips and a good plan! I have a mature tree everyone thinks is a carrie so if it takes a few seasons for this one to be ready then I'll just prune the pea sized fruit off a season or 2. Then once it starts fruiting good I may just remove the varieties getting shaded out and just keep the varieties that are producing well. Such a fun project.

 

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