Author Topic: Overhyped avocados  (Read 5627 times)

socalbalcony2

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2022, 02:01:25 AM »
Best avocado I've had was a reed @ Brad's..hass just didn't do it for me, not sure why

But last week on the big island we ate some super delicious sharwill (and some other variety just called 'butter')

Lovetoplant

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2022, 02:46:59 AM »
Brad, what is so special about Carmen that you like?  I heard it flowers 2x per year.  Thanks for all the great infos

pagnr

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2022, 06:12:42 AM »
How are people using the Avocados they rate ?

An oily Hass is great to eat out of the skin with a spoon.
Also on the infamous "smashed avocado on toast" that became a political hot topic in Australia.
Millennials "overspending" when Avocados were $3 each a couple of years back here.
Hass can get off flavours at certain stages. Maybe when too dry/oily

Some of the lighter fleshed types can make better Guacamole, for balance of flavours. Zutano, Bacon.
The really watery tropical types in North Queensland ( West Indian ??) can be pretty neutral.
Some S E Asian cusines use Avocado in sweet smoothie drinks, don't think that an oily Haas is in there.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2022, 06:22:12 AM by pagnr »

pineislander

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2022, 07:56:35 AM »
I expect there are many variables that pertain to how well avocado grow, produce and taste to actually say one or another is overhyped. When there are many variables comparison becomes very difficult. Rootstock, graft compatibility, soil, microclimate, cultural practices and an individual tree's root structure are just some of many variables likely involved.
Just look at any orchard of supposedly identical trees and you will see a big difference between trees.
 
Same thing with any comparison, many variables make hard comparisons.
 

johnb51

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2022, 10:43:29 AM »
How are people using the Avocados they rate ?

An oily Hass is great to eat out of the skin with a spoon.
Also on the infamous "smashed avocado on toast" that became a political hot topic in Australia.
Millennials "overspending" when Avocados were $3 each a couple of years back here.
Hass can get off flavours at certain stages. Maybe when too dry/oily

Some of the lighter fleshed types can make better Guacamole, for balance of flavours. Zutano, Bacon.
The really watery tropical types in North Queensland ( West Indian ??) can be pretty neutral.
Some S E Asian cusines use Avocado in sweet smoothie drinks, don't think that an oily Haas is in there.
To me even Florida W.I. avocados with low oil content fully ripe can taste fine when eaten out of the skin with a spoon.  They can have a mild nutty flavor and a super-smooth texture.
That being said, the original Hass sure is the king in California.  My dad planted a tree in L.A. (1970's) when we lived about a dozen miles from the coast. and even there it produced amazing fruit.
John

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2022, 10:57:59 AM »
By the way, I am just giving honest opinions.  No hard feeling, take it for what its worth which is not much!, I am wrong about many things in life, your mileage may vary etc etc etc,   

You are in the very dry, great wide open there. Where you live. I must think that in more densely settled locations (Los Angeles etc) , the avocado and mango trees get more protected from "the dry" via buildings and trees close to them. Shading them. Less moisture gets lost.

So their avo and mango results (yields) will be different.

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2022, 11:44:02 AM »
Brad, what is so special about Carmen that you like?  I heard it flowers 2x per year.  Thanks for all the great infos

Its basically hass but fruits earlier and sets tons of fruit.  My trees have not bloomed twice but they are still young so who knows maybe they will. 
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2022, 12:04:10 PM »
Brad, I'm glad you're keeping Nabal and Sharwill. Those are my top two favorites.
Thera

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2022, 12:31:41 PM »
Brad, I'm glad you're keeping Nabal and Sharwill. Those are my top two favorites.

Yep i have at least 10 nabal trees and the grow super well.  And about 50 or more sharwil trees.
Brad Spaugh

johnb51

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2022, 02:52:09 PM »
By the way, I am just giving honest opinions.  No hard feeling, take it for what its worth which is not much!, I am wrong about many things in life, your mileage may vary etc etc etc,   

You are in the very dry, great wide open there. Where you live. I must think that in more densely settled locations (Los Angeles etc) , the avocado and mango trees get more protected from "the dry" via buildings and trees close to them. Shading them. Less moisture gets lost.

So their avo and mango results (yields) will be different.
The difference between inland valleys in SoCal and coastal areas is night-and-day--totally different climates.  Even L.A.  The Basin (south of the Santa Monica mountains) and the San Fernando Valley are hugely different.
John

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2022, 03:20:19 PM »
The optimal CA growing location is reported to be 5-15 miles inland from the coast on south facing granite hills just below the crest.  And optimal temperature is around 80F.

There are of course many trees growing fine outside of those general parameters.   :)

Brad Spaugh

johnb51

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2022, 10:42:42 AM »
The optimal CA growing location is reported to be 5-15 miles inland from the coast on south facing granite hills just below the crest.  And optimal temperature is around 80F.

There are of course many trees growing fine outside of those general parameters.   :)
So I guess Fallbrook is in that zone?  Is it a lot hotter where you're located?
John

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2022, 11:31:50 AM »
Great post Brad, if those varieties don't do good for you then they mostly don't have a chance by my location which is within 5-miles from coast. Holiday has be nice dwarf tree's but non-bearer also, Nishikawa,Hellen some fruit every year but less than a dozen. Fuerte shy bearer dependes on year and climate Malama small tree in bad place shy bearer for me too. I know most of my avocado's don't do well because I'm close to coast and have constant on shore winds almost. Temps aren't high enough to get good flower sex change during day many days so trees stay male all day. It has been frustrating to try and grow many of the listed varieties here so now just sticking with a few good growers and sometimes bearers of fruit. Keepers for me; Hass, Carmen Hass, Fuerte, Russel, Don Gillogy, Bacon,Hellen,Stewart,Reed even though shy bearer, Zutano, Magoon shy bearer, Mayo-even though is sweet bland,Jan Boyce f.n.(for now),Aravipa. Dud's to most likely to top work Puebla, Old fuerte seedling in process of top working,Holiday. Many varieties I have are on multi-grafted tree's which so far have worked will for my location. Losses Oro Negro, Choquette,Frey,Esther,Stearns,Edranol,Nowels. Up in air still to be determend are Daily 11, Yamagata, and another Fuerte tree I have kept many shy bearing trees because they grow well and give me some fruit and with enough trees or branch graft's I can get a reasonable amount to keep us in avocados for parts of the year. I covet the folks like Brad, who live in opptinal growing area's but then again i don't like the heat so stay close to coast.I have trialed many other varieties but they failed too so now done with trials and sticking with a few shy bearers to get me to the sunset of my life.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2022, 10:45:02 AM by ScottR »

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2022, 05:58:07 PM »
The optimal CA growing location is reported to be 5-15 miles inland from the coast on south facing granite hills just below the crest.  And optimal temperature is around 80F.

There are of course many trees growing fine outside of those general parameters.   :)
So I guess Fallbrook is in that zone?  Is it a lot hotter where you're located?

Im not really sure.  Fallbrook is maybe slightly cooler than here but not by a lot.  Everyone is fallbrook is growing avocados though so theres extra moisture in the air from all the irrigation.  No one around here is farming, Im surrounded by miles of wilderness area and its all dry. 

I kind of wish I had moved to fallbrook.  After the market tanked in 08 I did look at a house there on 10 acres that had a pool and decent house, solar system, 500 mature citrus and avocado trees that was going for 400k.  It was further than we wanted to drive for work though. 

I havent been there but Ive been told Carpenteria is the ideal place.  Not even sure where that is, maybe ventura area?  I think that area north of LA on the coast has some nice weather.  Santa Barbra also nice weather.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 06:01:34 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2022, 06:34:10 PM »
Love me a good controversial post. 
Brad- if you could pick one avocado other than Hass to start an orchard where you live considering growth habit, productivity, fruit flavor, and market value, what would you choose?
Iím still picking Hass off my trees and they are damn good this late in the season. Personally, I need a variety to cover the other 6 months of the year when the Hass trees are picked clean.

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2022, 08:31:31 PM »
Love me a good controversial post. 
Brad- if you could pick one avocado other than Hass to start an orchard where you live considering growth habit, productivity, fruit flavor, and market value, what would you choose?
Iím still picking Hass off my trees and they are damn good this late in the season. Personally, I need a variety to cover the other 6 months of the year when the Hass trees are picked clean.

I dont know tough question.  If you want to sell to a packing house then hass, gem, lamb are the best.  Those are great commercial trees.   For me I just have a small grove and dont want to sell to a packing house.  Its more of a for fun make a few extra bucks botique thing.  So for that I chose to plant hass, sharwil, reed, and nabals a few GEM, lamb, and gwens.  Even though I think GEM is overhyped, it is a nice tree and the fruit is pretty good, its a good commercial tree.

For late season, I think reed has the best flavor and produces ok and grows ok.  Lamb grows better and more productive but it just isnt as good tasting as hass or reed IMO. 
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 08:33:13 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2022, 08:42:43 PM »
Lets talk about bacon avocado.  I have a huge bacon tree that makes hundreds of fruit.  The tree is beatiful and performs awesome.  The problem is it grows so large and makes so many fruit I cant use even a fraction of them.  And people dont really want to buy it.  So what to do with it?  Its not that I dont like bacon, its just not very practical.  So you can see the problems with some of these isnt always it grows poorly or doesnt produce, its just how many bacon or zutanos can you sell?  Zutano is the same way.  Super vigorous, makes hundreds of fruit, but no one wants them.  If they stayed somewhat small then I wouldnt mind keeping one around but these things turn in monsters.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 08:53:09 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2022, 09:06:14 PM »
I like making guacamole with my bacon avocados more so than hass,  mexicola/stewart, reeds , and definitely zutano.  Add pressed garlic and fresh ground pepper to a creamy smooth mash. My tree is so much happier now that the neighbors gigantic eucalyptus is gone. Btw, seems to freeze ok as guacamole too.

Thanks for sharing your experiences with the various trials.

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2022, 09:21:45 PM »
Every year I trim 5 to 10ft off the bacon tree and it just keeps getting bigger.  Its just too big of a tree and not much commercial value so I am going to top work it with something smaller.  Maybe just keep a few smaller branches of bacon.  Like 10 or 15 bacons per year is all I really want. 


Brad Spaugh

pagnr

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2022, 09:43:38 PM »
Twenty Years ago Bacon was the Avocado var of "choice" in Melbourne Australia for cold tolerance reasons. (That is from the pool of Avocados in Australia.)
That has probably faded away as the Melbourne climate moderates, and other types succeed also in home gardens.
It is probably still popular outside of Melbourne, in the foothills or down the coast.
Over the last few years around here, you couldn't hardly buy a Zutano Avocado, they were snapped up for rootstock seed off farm.
They are back now at roadside stalls, since the boom has eased.
Avocado fruit are  back to about $1 each in the supermarkets at times. Mainly Hass types.
I have to confess I am mainly choosing to buy bulk Zutanos for the seeds I can get out of them, and the farm stall prices.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 10:25:39 PM by pagnr »

jtnguyen333

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2022, 10:05:37 PM »
Last year..I saw an craigslist post for nabal avocados.  He charged 2 for $20.
Love me a good controversial post. 
Brad- if you could pick one avocado other than Hass to start an orchard where you live considering growth habit, productivity, fruit flavor, and market value, what would you choose?
Iím still picking Hass off my trees and they are damn good this late in the season. Personally, I need a variety to cover the other 6 months of the year when the Hass trees are picked clean.

I dont know tough question.  If you want to sell to a packing house then hass, gem, lamb are the best.  Those are great commercial trees.   For me I just have a small grove and dont want to sell to a packing house.  Its more of a for fun make a few extra bucks botique thing.  So for that I chose to plant hass, sharwil, reed, and nabals a few GEM, lamb, and gwens.  Even though I think GEM is overhyped, it is a nice tree and the fruit is pretty good, its a good commercial tree.

For late season, I think reed has the best flavor and produces ok and grows ok.  Lamb grows better and more productive but it just isnt as good tasting as hass or reed IMO.

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2022, 10:48:41 PM »
Twenty Years ago Bacon was the Avocado var of "choice" in Melbourne Australia for cold tolerance reasons. (That is from the pool of Avocados in Australia.)
That has probably faded away as the Melbourne climate moderates, and other types succeed also in home gardens.
It is probably still popular outside of Melbourne, in the foothills or down the coast.
Over the last few years around here, you couldn't hardly buy a Zutano Avocado, they were snapped up for rootstock seed off farm.
They are back now at roadside stalls, since the boom has eased.
Avocado fruit are  back to about $1 each in the supermarkets at times. Mainly Hass types.
I have to confess I am mainly choosing to buy bulk Zutanos for the seeds I can get out of them, and the farm stall prices.

Its a good rootstock.  I used mostly zutano and also some bacons for almost all my trees.  I planted a zutano just 2 or 3 years ago and ended up with close to 100 seeds off it already. 
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2022, 05:47:40 AM »
Hey brad

My green gold is a clear champ. Different from yours. Mine grows straight up, strong central leader, sets tons of fruit yearly, basically a problem free tree with lots of excellent large fruit.

Got mine from epicenter.
My hass is alternate bearing because it holds so much fruit every other year.

My Pinkerton is also a champ. I have 2 of them. One is bushy, the other grows upright. Both flower and fruit profusely every year.

Leavens hass and ardith were killed by gopher/vole combo. Same with Rio hass.

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2022, 11:25:59 PM »
I will try top working more green gold trees on different rootstocks.  The one i got came from atkins and i assume is on a zutano seedling.  The fruit is good but my tree sucks.  I noticed the other day the rootstock has shot up some shoots and is starting to come up through the canopy.  I need to go trim those off.  Thats not a normal thing to happen unless the top worked part has some growth issues.  This is not a new tree either, its fairly old and large.
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #49 on: May 30, 2022, 12:27:10 AM »
Regarding pinkerton, it tends to grow ok when it isnt setting fruit on an off year.  When it sets lots of fruit, it sags and gets sun burn add starts looking poor and takes time to recover from the heavy fruit loads.  This tree is not a strong grower compared to hass.  And the 3 weeks it takes to ripen is just too long. Many people dont wait long enough and then end up wasting the fruit cutting it too soon because it starts to soften after 2 weeks a little but then needs another week.  Sometimes longer.  The flavor is very nice though I think it is one of the best for flavor.  But the growth and ripening issues just knock it out of being top tier to me.  And I sometimes have some fruit that have hard spots in the flesh.  I have 2 of these trees and they both perform this way.  I really wouldnt recommend people grow it if they have limited space, I think hass and sharwil perform better and have less issues and similar quality fruits.

 :)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2022, 12:38:57 AM by spaugh »
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