Author Topic: Overhyped avocados  (Read 6594 times)

Surfmatt

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #50 on: May 30, 2022, 07:26:01 AM »
Sounds like everyone has some pheno hunting to do. Drop some seeds, give the next generation some better genetics to eat/grow.

MasonG31

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #51 on: May 30, 2022, 04:58:36 PM »
Sounds like everyone has some pheno hunting to do. Drop some seeds, give the next generation some better genetics to eat/grow.

Totally agree.  If the last decade or so is any indicator, we should be searching for a new drought tolerant variety, if that’s even possible. 

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #52 on: May 30, 2022, 06:19:44 PM »
Ive got a bunch of reed seedlings growing that havent flowered yet but they are pretty big.  Gray martin said to do a girdle around the base of the trees in October and they will flower the following spring.   
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #53 on: May 31, 2022, 11:44:47 AM »
Ive got a bunch of reed seedlings growing that havent flowered yet but they are pretty big.  Gray martin said to do a girdle around the base of the trees in October and they will flower the following spring.

I was pondering the potential of Reed seedlings-- usually I've been finding the largest Zutano or Bacon pit and they grow decently.  Do Reeds grow better than the traditional rootstocks?

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #54 on: May 31, 2022, 12:44:22 PM »
for rootstocks, zutano is good.  reed isnt as good for a rootstock in the cold weather otherwise its ok.  Im just growing them out for fruit. 
Brad Spaugh

JCorte

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #55 on: May 31, 2022, 02:17:43 PM »
Last year we planted out over 60 seeds from our Don Gillogly tree in Fallbrook to use as rootstock and they are doing great.  Surprisingly, on most of the trees the older leaves from last year still look great without any tip burn and the seedlings are branching out nicely and have a good shape.  Our mother tree at home is over 15 years old and produces reliably even with our clay soil and cooler weather.  It also thrives with minimum watering, I don't water it at all from late fall to early spring and only once every couple weeks during summer.  I'm sure it would need more water in a warmer climate, but our highs are still only in the upper 60s, forecast shows high of 73 this next week. 

In March, we purchased an old avocado orchard with about 2000 Hass and Reed trees.  The water on the property has been turned off for about a year, but we have been harvesting some Hass.  Some were better than any avocado we have ever purchased.  I was surprised at how good some of them were even on neglected trees.  We also tried a couple Reed even though we knew they weren't ready yet and fruit was still okay, so looking forward to trying them in a few months.

Now that we have these mature trees, we plan on letting all the Don Gillogly seeds grow into trees to see what we get.  Looking forward to experimenting with seedlings and grafting new varieties onto some of these old trees.

Janet

jtnguyen333

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #56 on: May 31, 2022, 02:33:11 PM »
How would you rate the taste of Don Gilogly?
Last year we planted out over 60 seeds from our Don Gillogly tree in Fallbrook to use as rootstock and they are doing great.  Surprisingly, on most of the trees the older leaves from last year still look great without any tip burn and the seedlings are branching out nicely and have a good shape.  Our mother tree at home is over 15 years old and produces reliably even with our clay soil and cooler weather.  It also thrives with minimum watering, I don't water it at all from late fall to early spring and only once every couple weeks during summer.  I'm sure it would need more water in a warmer climate, but our highs are still only in the upper 60s, forecast shows high of 73 this next week. 

In March, we purchased an old avocado orchard with about 2000 Hass and Reed trees.  The water on the property has been turned off for about a year, but we have been harvesting some Hass.  Some were better than any avocado we have ever purchased.  I was surprised at how good some of them were even on neglected trees.  We also tried a couple Reed even though we knew they weren't ready yet and fruit was still okay, so looking forward to trying them in a few months.

Now that we have these mature trees, we plan on letting all the Don Gillogly seeds grow into trees to see what we get.  Looking forward to experimenting with seedlings and grafting new varieties onto some of these old trees.

Janet

JCorte

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #57 on: May 31, 2022, 03:56:17 PM »
When picked at peak ripeness it is an excellent avocado.  It recently came off patent so is becoming more available.  I first heard of it over 15 years ago from the head horticulturist at Roger's Gardens (a high end nursery in Newport Beach with a team of horticulturists and knowledgeable staff) who said it was the best tasting avocado he had ever had.  Gary Matsuoka, the owner of Laguna Hills nursery which specializes in edibles also has mentioned it's one of the best tasting.  Our friends always ask if we have extra in the spring.  There are a few qualities I would like to improve on though.  Like I mentioned it's excellent when picked at the proper time, it does not hang for months like some others after peak quality.  If it stays on the tree past prime there may be some fiber at the base of the seed.  The shape of the fruit can also be variable, if there isn't regular rain in the winter it can have a skinny neck, this year we didn't get much rain at all after December, and I don't water my trees in winter.  If it gets regular water, the fruit can be over 1 lb with a better shape.  This year they averaged about 13 oz.  It also has a small membrane near the tip of the seed that has to be removed that I haven't seen in other cultivars.  The taste is excellent though, with high oil content and the flesh does not oxidize after you cut it.  You can leave half an avo in the fridge for up to 2 days and it doesn't discolor or lose quality.  Ideally, I wish it had a deeper color, the inner flesh is pale light green so it's not as aesthetically beautiful for presentation.  I'm hoping one of the seedlings I planted will have the same taste, without the membrane and better color.  I also wonder if I will get better quality growing it in Fallbrook.  I live a couple blocks from the ocean, so it's a humid, cool microclimate for Southern California.   I think the tree would appreciate more sun and heat.  Even though it's not perfect, I do love this avocado.

Janet

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #58 on: May 31, 2022, 04:41:53 PM »
The fujikawa avocado also has a hard spot in the flesh right above the seed which needs to be removed.  Otherwise, its a stellar fruit.

Janet did you buy more land in addition to the lot in fallbrook?  You guys gonna grow your own avocados for the resturaunt?

I finished picking hass here and have started picking reeds and they arent as good as thry will be but its still tasting pretty dang good. 
Brad Spaugh

MasonG31

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #59 on: May 31, 2022, 08:48:12 PM »
Ive got a bunch of reed seedlings growing that havent flowered yet but they are pretty big.  Gray martin said to do a girdle around the base of the trees in October and they will flower the following spring.

I was pondering the potential of Reed seedlings-- usually I've been finding the largest Zutano or Bacon pit and they grow decently.  Do Reeds grow better than the traditional rootstocks?

I know this isn't the topic of the thread, but I wanted to comment on how fun it is growing Reed seedlings.  They usually do some quirky stuff, that's usually pretty cool.  They like to push out several root suckers, or push out multiple shoots.  Not sure if some avocado seeds can be considered polyembryonic?  Other Reed seedlings tend to grow huge leaves, even if left in the sun.  I also like Fuerte as a rootstock.  It tends to branch out very low to the seed, giving you a great chance to multigraft onto one seed.




Reed seedling with multiple shoots


Reed seedling with several root suckers growing around the pot


Fuerte seedling forming two branches very low to the seed

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #60 on: May 31, 2022, 09:21:44 PM »
Mason did you say you tried Hellen?  When is the peak season?  According to the UC list, it is rated excellent and july-october. 

I remember picking in July last year and they weren't ready.

Anyone have one of these trees care to comment?
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #61 on: May 31, 2022, 11:18:19 PM »
Brad, we bought another 40 acre property about 5 minutes away from the farm.  A real estate investment company had bought it in foreclosure a year ago and decided it wasn't the right investment for them so priced it to sell quickly.  It's a diamond in the rough and needs a lot of work, a lifetime of work actually, but we're really excited about it.  If you visit, you'll have to bring your bike, there's a lot of trails perfect for riding and it feels like a forest.  Many of the Reed trees are over 25 feet tall, we need to bring down the canopy to save water and make it easier to harvest.   Yes, we plan on trying to grow our own avocados and some other high cost items for the restaurants , hope to start harvesting next year. Also want to grow specialty fruit for the beer.  Any ideas on fruit that would be good for brewing?  We closed our Irvine restaurant location, today was actually our last day, but we're going to expand the brewery.  We're opening a tasting room and restaurant in downtown Carlsbad.

Janet

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #62 on: May 31, 2022, 11:43:24 PM »
Wow thats awesome.   8)  living your dreams and going big or going home, only live once and all that!

For beer personally I just mostly like 3 ingredients.  Malted wheat or barley, hops and yeast.  Not really into flavored beer but passionfruit, citrus, lychee, peach, raspberry are all good additives.  Marijuana terpine extracs probably would be a big seller too.  Not sure if anyone has done that one yet.  I saw a beer called terp sauce the other day at the store but didnt read what they put in it.  I think you can buy terpine extracts.  Theres certain terpines that exist not only in marijuana but also citrus and mangos and every other kind of plants.  You should try and checkout a terpine chart for some ideas.

Avocados seem to be the big cash crop if you can get your grove running good and have a good well.  Theres an old timer guy that is or was a member here that lives in fallbrook and had several groves and had it all on solar panels and well water.  He had something like 120 acres and 1000 solar panels!   He also had giant RO systems to lower the salinity of the ground water.  I guess thats how the pros do it.  Maybe you guys are neighbors.

Sounds like your grove is really awesome, I would like to come check it out some day.  Cycling sounds fun, dirt bike motorcycle would be fun too.   

Congrats and good luck with the projects!

Heres one of the terpine charts
https://www.seedcanary.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/png_20211027_113501_0000.png
« Last Edit: May 31, 2022, 11:55:36 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

MasonG31

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #63 on: May 31, 2022, 11:59:13 PM »
Mason did you say you tried Hellen?  When is the peak season?  According to the UC list, it is rated excellent and july-october. 

I remember picking in July last year and they weren't ready.

Anyone have one of these trees care to comment?

Brad I had a Hellen that was picked in late September and it was fantastic.  Wanted to ask you when do you pick Nabal?  Mine start dropping from the tree in July and they are world class at that point.  The UC list says they can go until November.  I haven’t had any last past August lol.

MasonG31

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2022, 12:04:22 AM »
Brad, we bought another 40 acre property about 5 minutes away from the farm.  A real estate investment company had bought it in foreclosure a year ago and decided it wasn't the right investment for them so priced it to sell quickly.  It's a diamond in the rough and needs a lot of work, a lifetime of work actually, but we're really excited about it.  If you visit, you'll have to bring your bike, there's a lot of trails perfect for riding and it feels like a forest.  Many of the Reed trees are over 25 feet tall, we need to bring down the canopy to save water and make it easier to harvest.   Yes, we plan on trying to grow our own avocados and some other high cost items for the restaurants , hope to start harvesting next year. Also want to grow specialty fruit for the beer.  Any ideas on fruit that would be good for brewing?  We closed our Irvine restaurant location, today was actually our last day, but we're going to expand the brewery.  We're opening a tasting room and restaurant in downtown Carlsbad.

Janet

Incredible! Congratulations! Those 25 foot tall Reeds must be beautiful.

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #65 on: June 01, 2022, 12:07:40 AM »
I dont know how long nabal will hold on the tree.  May seems to be good here and into June.  My tree isnt old enough to know how long they will go since it hasnt made loads of fruit yet.  We had maybe 10 nabals this year and there still a few left.  Had one a week ago and it was awesome.  Reed is already good here too but will go into August and September.  Nabal seems to be about 1month ahead of reed for me. 

The nabal tree grow like beasts too, i planted a bunch of them and they grow faster than any other type and just look super strong and healthy.  Seems like a stellar variety.  Im guessing the problem is long term the trees get too big but thats just a guess.  Maybe thats why reed is more popular, they seem to be a little smaller more manageable tree. 

This picture was from 2021


« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 12:17:02 AM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #66 on: June 01, 2022, 12:27:41 AM »
This was a super ripe reed from end of september


Some other random pics I had from last year

Jan boyce














Santa clara




Green gold


Daily11




Santa clara

Brad Spaugh

kh0110

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2022, 12:53:14 AM »
...
The nabal tree grow like beasts too, i planted a bunch of them and they grow faster than any other type and just look super strong and healthy.  Seems like a stellar variety.  Im guessing the problem is long term the trees get too big but thats just a guess.  Maybe thats why reed is more popular, they seem to be a little smaller more manageable tree. 

...
[/quote]

I was told that Nabal is an alternate bearer as the tree ages. But, how do you distinguish a Nabal fruit from a Reed?
Thera

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #68 on: June 01, 2022, 01:14:37 AM »
Pretty much all avocado trees alternate if they do a big fruit set.

I can tell the difference between a nabal tree and reed tree if the tree is in good health its obvious.  The fruit are very similar looking but nabal is very slightly more squat in shape and has a bigger nipple on top where the stem connects.  The spotting on the nabal is mkre spaced out and the skin color is more dull while still on the tree.



« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 01:20:16 AM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #69 on: June 01, 2022, 01:34:46 AM »
Thanks Brad!  Realistically I think we're going to have to replace several acres of the avocados with more water efficient fruits.  I don't think we can afford to water 2,000 avocado trees. There was a past due water bill of $85K that had to be paid to get the water turned back on.  Fortunately we found out about it before we closed escrow. 

We don't know if we'll be able to drill wells at the orchard.  The property is really hilly and steep and we don't think the drilling equipment can make it up to the top of the property. 

We're going to save the best trees and as many trees as we can afford to water and figure out how to be as efficient as we can.  I'm thinking olives, pomegranates, figs, dragonfruit, mulberries, guavas, cherimoyas, and mangoes.  Whatever we grow, I'm good.  I'm happy to be planting, taking care of trees, growing food, and being surrounded by nature.  I'm looking forward to hosting fruit tastings in the future. 

I know you said a lot of avocado varieties are overhyped, but I can't help but want to try some of them anyway.  Especially the ones that you say taste good but have bad growth habit.  Hope you're selling scions this winter. 

That would be great if you came to check out the property, definitely bring the dirt bike motorcycle.

Janet

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2022, 01:52:04 AM »
I guess I would need to see what it looks like but if you can get a bulldozer in there and make a dirt road, you can probably make a path for the drilling company.  I would think the bulldozer work and well would pay for themselves really quickly on a big farm operation.  Maybe some solar panels too.  Of course I havent seen it so I could be way off!  I know how it is people tell you do this do that with your property without seeing it first and you know some stuff just isnt going to happen for whatever reason. 

Water prices are probably the reason the grove was sold.  They are getting really out of control with the water and electric prices.  Solar panels and a well is the way to go if you can swing it.
Brad Spaugh

pagnr

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #71 on: June 01, 2022, 01:59:42 AM »
Fruiting seasonality is another big factor not discussed.
If you have 3 or 4 excellent quality varieties, but they may all crop in the same 2 or 3 months. Or even a 6 month spread.
You may be happy ( or desperate ) for another that ripens off season to the rest.
So It is not as great as the others ?
Still passable as an Avocado, and better than store bought/ imported when prices per fruit are sky high.

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #72 on: June 01, 2022, 02:15:32 AM »
Its pretty easy to get year round avocados here.  Just need about 3 or 4 types to pull it off.  But the ones from October until January just aren't that great.  I chopped down all the ones that fruited then and Ill eat cherimoyas instead during that time.  No one in my family wanted to eat the losers after spending the previous 6 months eating winners. 
Brad Spaugh

MasonG31

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2022, 09:07:57 AM »
I dont know how long nabal will hold on the tree.  May seems to be good here and into June.  My tree isnt old enough to know how long they will go since it hasnt made loads of fruit yet.  We had maybe 10 nabals this year and there still a few left.  Had one a week ago and it was awesome.  Reed is already good here too but will go into August and September.  Nabal seems to be about 1month ahead of reed for me. 

The nabal tree grow like beasts too, i planted a bunch of them and they grow faster than any other type and just look super strong and healthy.  Seems like a stellar variety.  Im guessing the problem is long term the trees get too big but thats just a guess.  Maybe thats why reed is more popular, they seem to be a little smaller more manageable tree. 

This picture was from 2021



Yeah they’re aggressive growers for sure.  I‘ve seen some enormous Nabal trees in the Fallbrook area.  Tall and spreading, much like Fuerte.  Definitely not the Reed growth habit.  I have some Nabal grafts on a multigrafted tree, and they outgrow the others considerably.

JCorte

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2022, 09:51:21 AM »
Brad, I love the pictures with all the avocado diversity.  Wish we could of made it to your avo tasting last year.  We went to the Avocado Festival in Fallbrook at the end of April hoping to try some new varieties.  Pretty disappointing, no one was selling avocados.  Atkins nursery was there selling citrus and cherimoya and they had one 5 gallon Nabal tree but wanted $85 so we passed.  We walked the whole thing looking for something avocado related, there was one vendor selling cutting boards made from avocado wood, that was pretty much it.  Huge crowds of people, it ended up being a large street fair with vendors selling lots of "stuff" and fried foods, not our thing. 

Seems like you could fill such a niche market with all the different varieties that can't be found anywhere.  I know I would buy a box of all the diversity just to be able to taste the difference.

I wonder sometimes if those of us on this forum that spend years waiting to try fruit and look for different and diverse flavors are really rare.  Will there be a market for all the specialty fruits I want to experiment with.

Janet


 

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