Author Topic: Overhyped avocados  (Read 4954 times)

spaugh

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Overhyped avocados
« on: May 26, 2022, 12:04:57 PM »
Just had to rant about this...  Sorry in advance  :D  I noticed theres so many overhyped avocado types.  I tried growing as many as possible and found most to be uninspiring.  Either the flavor is not there, or the tree has bad growth habits, or some other problem.  Many of these are hyped up by the UC breeding program or by the grounds keepers at the UC Irvine grove.  And some have just been around forever and for some reason people keep propogating them even though theres much better options  ???

My chainsaw has been getting a real workout lately.  Heres a short list of ones that have had a date with the chipper.


Ardith
Mexicola
Mexicola Grande
Stewart
Holiday
Daily11
Jim Bacon
Sir Prize
Jan Boyce
Fuerte
Bacon
Zutano
GEM
Party time
Coleen Davis


And theres more that will likely be chopped down and turned into saw dust after I waste a few more seasons on them as well !  ;D  :P

« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 12:44:49 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2022, 12:08:45 PM »
My definite keeper list:

Hass
Reed
Fujikawa
Nabal
Sharwil
Gwen
Carmen

And theres a whole list of undecided but likely to be doused with glyphosate and set on fire if they dont do something useful very quickly.  :D
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 12:10:46 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2022, 12:17:16 PM »
Great info! Thanks Brad.
I agree with all the crappers, and appreciate seeíing your list if winners. I havenít tried growing a few of those still .
Jan Boyce not make the cut due to production , flavor, or skipping years?

K-Rimes

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2022, 12:25:26 PM »
Sounds like should just top work my Sir Prize now.

12Zodiac

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2022, 12:25:35 PM »
Lucky for me that I have a Reed, Nabal, Sharwil, Hass and Lamb Hass. I may have bought some Jan Boyce scions from Brad a few years ago but the grafts never took and I was very disappointed. Now, I think Iím good with what I have.

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2022, 12:25:52 PM »
The Jan Boyce,  "the connoisseur's avocado" has to take the cake as the most overhyped avocado on earth!  Flavor is nice on this one.  But it has several issues!  First of all, the tree is lanky and the branches can get sun burn if you live in a hot area.  Also the fruit are not well protected from sun because of the lanky growth and exposed interior of the tree.  That is if it will set fruit for you.  Ive found it to not be reliable at setting a decent crop.  It alternates and also has poor fruit set even after an off year.  It clearly has a high percentage of mexican lineage in its DNA.  Evidenced by the thin skin that cracks at the neck of the fruit when approaching peak ripeness making it vulnerable to rodent infestation and early dropping!  These fruits ripen very early here and start dropping by late winter around February or March and do not hang well on the tree because of the mexican lineage.  It's too warm here for this tree and fruit to do well.  The foliage on this one clearly struggles during heatwaves here and can experience dieback for no apparent reason as well.  I grew 4 of these trees and all 4 exhibit the same poor qualities.

I give this avocado a 5 turd rating.   :D
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 02:24:57 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2022, 12:34:03 PM »
Spaugh, mightn't it be fair to consider that those avo cultivars which you have found to be 'uninspiring' may in some instances just be the result of growing them in your California climate? 

It may be that under different climatic conditions some of those cultivars may produce well and have better flavor.

Notwithstanding that if they are not producing decent fruit for you where you are then you may be right in shovel pruning them.  But your observations on those various cultivars in some instances may be that you are painting them unfaairly with too broad a brush.

Just my 2Ę worth . . .

Regards,

Pau M.
Tampa, FL
Zone 9b
==

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2022, 12:35:51 PM »
Sounds like should just top work my Sir Prize now.

Sir Prize, oh boy another overhyped turd.  Yeah it has some redeeming qualities but they are easily outweighed by the negatives.  My Sir Prize trees do set a prolific load of fruit.  But then they take 1 or 2 more seasons to recover from their rediculous fruit set.  Which is funny because other people report no fruit ever.  Mine have the opposite problem, they fruit so hard the branches weap and can break and the sun then burns the weeping wood.  In general the tree has a weak growth pattern and is not well suited to hot locations where sun damage is going to happen regularly.  The trees have weak to no central leader type growth and tend to make one of the worst looking avocado trees I've grown.  The fruit can be good but the quality seems to decline the more fruit it sets.  Fruit size is inconsistent.  They can be very large if theres a low fruitset and small if theres a lot of fruit on the tree.  The seed is small, but the peel is thin which I really am not a fan of.  It really needs to hang on the tree until spring to be good despite what you may read on the internet from various sources.  And by that time hass is also getting good and is just an all around better tree/fruit.  Even the inventor of the sir prize, gray martin has told me the sir prize is a bunk cado.  Never worthy of patententing IMO.  I have 2 of these trees and they perform exactly the same and Im going to chip this asap.  Will top work with gwen. 
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 01:10:33 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2022, 12:36:23 PM »
Spaugh, mightn't it be fair to consider that those avo cultivars which you have found to be 'uninspiring' may in some instances just be the result of growing them in your California climate? 

It may be that under different climatic conditions some of those cultivars may produce well and have better flavor.

Notwithstanding that if they are not producing decent fruit for you where you are then you may be right in shovel pruning them.  But your observations on those various cultivars in some instances may be that you are painting them unfaairly with too broad a brush.

Just my 2Ę worth . . .

Regards,

Pau M.
Tampa, FL
Zone 9b
==

No  :D

Actually yes and no. 

The ones that are not CA avocados, you are right. Like I have several Hawaii avocados that just dont flower or dont set fruit well. But so far, I have only put CA avocados on the junk list.  These are avocados that do best in CA.

Even some of the CA ones may do better in a cooler area.  But I feel Im giving you quite accurate info for southern CA.  I actually doubt any of the ones on the shit list taste any better anywhere else to be honest.  My location pumps out pretty good avocados.  Some of them are just overhyped!
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 12:41:38 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2022, 12:48:44 PM »
Taste wise I can't imagine how Hass could be beat.  When I got a box from you, Brad, they were all equally excellent I couldn't really distinguish.  I don't grow these so I don't know about their productivity, pest resistance, etc.

I feel same way about the mandarins available... they are basically perfect.  If they were any sweeter they would be gross. 

sc4001992

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2022, 12:51:08 PM »
Brad, I would like to hear why you didn't like the Daily 11. I have both the Daily 11 and Queen grafts growing for the large fruit size. I ate one Daily 11 and it seemed to taste good.

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2022, 12:57:56 PM »
Heres the list of ones that are TBD.  Still under evaluation here

Yamagata (weak growth)
Nishikawa (poor flower/fruit set)
Green gold (not well suited for here, tree sags and gets sun burn, weak growth. fruit tastes awesome)
Koala (good fruit set, internal issue around seed)
Murishige (good growth and fruit set, looks promising)
Frank tbd
Kahaluu (lanky, poor fruit set, unimpressive flavor)
Malama (good bushy groth but not strong, need staking.  TBD)
OTA (lanky, no flowers)
Aneheim tbd
Puebla tbd
Queen tbd
Pinkerton (fruits well, good flavor, poor ripening characteristic and weak tree, not a winner).
Lamb (nice tree, produces well, fruit mediocre.  Not as good as real hass but later season, good for making $)
Hellen (great tree, beautiful fruit, late, not the best flavor, tbd)
Nimlioh (lanky tree, not a great shape tree, fruit tbd)
Whitsel (tbd)
Santa clara gold (tbd)
Ettinger (not impressed with flavor)
Edranol (amazing fruit, tree tbd, possibly related to sharwil.  Tastes like sharwil and green gold.)
Wurtz ( poor growth, poor flavor)
Pura Vida (all green flush, no red.  Only one I have with no red flush, doesnt like the dry heat.  Growth is ok, not great.  TBD)
Don Gilagoy tbd

Theres a few more Im still trialing but many of these ones will also get the axe. 

« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 03:11:46 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2022, 01:00:24 PM »
Brad, I would like to hear why you didn't like the Daily 11. I have both the Daily 11 and Queen grafts growing for the large fruit size. I ate one Daily 11 and it seemed to taste good.

The daily 11 tree is lanky and has a poor growth shape habit.  Fruit are way too big and tend to have fibers.  Yeah its fun to have a 3lb avocado once or twice but its really not practical.  And the fruit seem to drop once they reach a moderate level of oil that wasnt impressive to me.  I would rate it as mediocre novalty at best.  Doesnt compare to the top tier fruits on any level other than its really BIG.   :D

Nabal is a much nicer fruit and tree if you want big fruits.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 01:21:10 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2022, 01:04:44 PM »
Taste wise I can't imagine how Hass could be beat.  When I got a box from you, Brad, they were all equally excellent I couldn't really distinguish.  I don't grow these so I don't know about their productivity, pest resistance, etc.

I feel same way about the mandarins available... they are basically perfect.  If they were any sweeter they would be gross.

Hass is the best all around tree for this area.  Highly productive.  High oil content, strong growth, good size fruit, hard shell, peels easily, hangs a long time.  Definitely a reason its grown here despite some of the negativity you may hear online.  Those people have likely not had a fully ripened hass from CA.  I ate 2 of them today and they were very ripe and tasted amazing!  Definitely a winner.  If all you are getting is junk hass from mexico, thats another story!!! :D

That said, sharwil, green gold, reed, nabal, all have as good or better flavor.  But hass is awesome no doubt.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 01:23:40 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2022, 01:13:38 PM »
By the way, I am just giving honest opinions.  No hard feeling, take it for what its worth which is not much!, I am wrong about many things in life, your mileage may vary etc etc etc,   

My location is interrior coastal san diego county 16 miles inland 1200ft elevation.  South facing hill, fast draing DG soil, well water 7.7 ph high iron, mangonese, calcium.   :D
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 01:19:11 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2022, 01:33:10 PM »
Thanks for providing your experience because it will help those that do not know which variety to choose for their backyard, especially those with a limited space! Anyways, I have two reed, two sharwil, a gem, a pinkerton, a gwen, and a Holiday in my backyard. I have been top working the Holiday for the past two years; my nabal scions I got from you in Winter took nicely on the tree!

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2022, 01:51:43 PM »
Thanks for providing your experience because it will help those that do not know which variety to choose for their backyard, especially those with a limited space! Anyways, I have two reed, two sharwil, a gem, a pinkerton, a gwen, and a Holiday in my backyard. I have been top working the Holiday for the past two years; my nabal scions I got from you in Winter took nicely on the tree!

Great, holiday another loser in my book.  Despite good reviews by the queen of avocados and another member or 2 on this blog, I am just totally unimpressed with it and find it irritating that that one is even propogated commercially.  How many people waited years and years for their holidays to produce, only to have them drop early and have mediocre taste?  My holiday was actually growing quite well and producing nicely but they never were as good as a reed or nabal.  They tend to drop early too which is super annoying after waiting 16 months for them to be ready.  I top worked both my trees. 

GEM is ok but not as good as regular hass or gwen IMO.  The fruit look really nice until it softens up then the outside of the fruit looks spoiled.  They taste decent thogh.  The tree is nice and good growth pattern and productive and small.  Good for commercial $.  Just doesnt do it for me though.  This is probably the 2nd most overhyped avocado on earth. Its not even bad per se, just way hyped up.   :D
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 01:53:47 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2022, 02:31:57 PM »
Thanks for your reply Brad on the Daily 11.
Have you tried grafting the Ismael (seedling), west indie from JF? I read the fruits are large (2-4lbs) and I read it tastes good. I have some grafted on my trees.

ben mango

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2022, 03:32:59 PM »
What donít you like about mexicola? Nothing Iíve tasted comes close to mexicola as far as high oil content and nutty taste. I donít grow them so canít comment on how they grow. Sharwil are probably my favorite overall.

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2022, 03:47:55 PM »
Ive heard other people say they love mexicola.  Personally the small fruit, big seed, anise flavor dont do it for me.  They get ripe super quick and fall all over the ground.  No commercial value..  Its not even in the same leage as some of the top ones IMO. 

Of course these are just my opinions take them for what they are worth  :D

Your mileage may vary !  :)
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2022, 04:19:19 PM »
Interesting topic Brad.  I agree with every variety on your list except Jan Boyce.  I live closer to the coast at lower elevation and Jan Boyce consistently produces big crops that hang on the tree relatively well.  The tree can get lanky yes, but seems to respond well to pruning.  The fruit tastes great, but is one step below a prime Reed, Nabal or Hass. 

Yeah it seems the UC system has produced some of the most overhyped, lackluster avocado varieties (i.e. Sir Prize, Holiday, GEM).  Out of those 3, I'd say GEM is the best.  There's so much potential with the UC system though, because they have the land and resources to develop some awesome new varieties, which they seem to be trying to do but have not succeeded yet.  And they've been at it for over 30 years.  They should be planting and testing out Nabal and Reed seedlings.  That genetic lineage seem to be really strong and adaptable to high heat, salt buildup in the soil, and produce consistently in different areas (inland and coastal).  If they planted a field of Nabal seedlings, I'm certain they would get at least a few winners. 

Your TBD list is interesting too.  I think Hellen, Nimlioh, Edranol and Pinkerton all taste great, and are definitely keepers in my opinion.  Regarding Hellen and Nimlioh, the downside is the fruits get so big, so it takes forever to mature them up to the right oil level and flavor, and then figuring out when they're ripe is a whole other task, thanks to their hard shells.  But it's all worth it in my opinion, because their flavor is outstanding.


Seanny

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2022, 04:56:20 PM »
Home grown Hass has been top for me.
On some occasions dad bought a good bag of Hass.

1st 2 years of my Reed had off flavor near the skin.
No off flavor on 1st fruit off my tree this year.
Seems on par with home grown Hass.

  How long has Sharwil been hanging after mature for you guys?

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2022, 05:01:30 PM »
the sharwils start dropping off by May and June here.  i saw Julies chart saying they hang for 12 months  ??? ::)

must be something special in that irvine water  :D

regarding Hellen, I have yet to get a good one.  They always seem watery even in mid summer.  I got a bunch of huge ones on the tree this year so Ill wait as long as possible to pick and see.  Ardith had the same problem.  Never did get to a great level of oil even after close to 18 mo.  Hellen I hope they come out good because the tree and fruit look great. 

« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 05:12:52 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2022, 06:51:03 PM »
I agree in most. Once I have many varieties. But Malama in my case is a great avocado despite the fruit size  (very small seed).And Reed flavor is horrible.

BonsaiBeast

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2022, 12:11:24 AM »
This was a pretty fun thread to read through. Brad has some strict standards. Definitely makes me reconsider my tree being half Sir Prize. Although it does seem to grow pretty vertically, likely having to do with the really big trunk it was grafted on?

 

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