Author Topic: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening  (Read 673 times)

John B

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Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« on: September 11, 2022, 12:41:21 AM »
Bought a 3 gallon Booth Seedling from a nursery a few years ago. Tree is about 8-10 ft now and I have 5-6 different varieties of cherimoya and atemoya on it. I've had Fino de Jete and Pierce branches produce fruit as usual. But, the rootstock fruit do not seem to develop all the way. They just stop growing. I think the largest one last year was about the size of a billiards ball.

All were hand pollinated and are on different parts of the tree. I thinned the fruit heavily this year so I could make sure that was not the issue. I only kept 8 fruit on it this year since I have another fruiting tree. Still same result.

Here is a picture of what the fruit looks like:



And here is a picture of a pierce that was pollinated about 3 weeks after that fruit:



Anyone else experience this? Just a bad fruit on this rootstock? I assume I may need to do heavy pruning this year to top work this tree. Not too excited if that's the case.

Also, LM3 doesn't seem to keep up with the cherimoya grafts on all my trees. Not as vigorous, I guess. Will probably axe them but try to graft on a small seedling. The super AP has no problem keeping up.

On another note, hoping this seedling tree is a winner. Fast growth, handling the heat, and set fruit fast.



Bush2Beach

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2022, 01:24:25 PM »
I have a Boothe tree 10 ft tall and wide . The fruits are always fully smooth. They ripen okay for me by the coast , but not my favorite.
I got a good amount of fruit last year with no hand pollination.

John B

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2022, 05:50:37 PM »
Thanks. These certainly won't set fruit without hand pollination. Too dry here. Pretty sure seedling rootstock is dud and will need to top work this spring. Oh well.

Galatians522

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2022, 08:27:23 PM »
Apparently that is what Cherimoya always does in Florida. Suposedly, it is related to high temps causing the fruit to stop developing. Maybe some varieties are more heat sensitive?

John B

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2022, 12:35:06 AM »
Apparently that is what Cherimoya always does in Florida. Suposedly, it is related to high temps causing the fruit to stop developing. Maybe some varieties are more heat sensitive?
[/quote

Interesting hypothesis. It certainly gets warmer in my microclimate, but chilly add well. Appreciate the insight.

Galatians522

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2022, 07:54:37 AM »
Based on what Har has said (he is probably the authority on anonas in Florida) Cherimoya has no trouble flowering or setting fruit here. The fruit just never develops and ripens properly. Some varieties apparently perform better than others, but even the good ones only got about tennis ball size. John Painter said something similar about his Cherimoya. Here is a link to a summary of a scientific study done on the topic. I think I have seen the full text somewhere, so you can probably find it or a similar study if you search around.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304423898001605&ved=2ahUKEwjH57zv2ZH6AhWoTDABHZF0BYEQFnoECAoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1lxVJhO9Ritj_bpvueEbHK

Bush2Beach

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2022, 11:09:00 AM »
Hard to believe it could be drier than the zero rain we have had since flowers started this year and every year during flowering.
Although I would not necessarily attribute it to high temps and high humidity either.
Cherimoya makes it through 90-100 degree days in CA all the time. It was just 110 degrees in lots of Cherimoya area's and yeah that's not it.
My fruits get runted from lack of heat.
Oh yeah , rootstock fruits are total duds, definitely top work that.


Thanks. These certainly won't set fruit without hand pollination. Too dry here. Pretty sure seedling rootstock is dud and will need to top work this spring. Oh well.

Galatians522

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2022, 09:07:50 PM »
California gets hotter than Florida. I have never seen 110 here in my lifetime. The difference is that Florida never gets cool. This heat zone map is the perfect illustration for what I am trying to say. Oddly enough 86 Fahrenheit (30 Celsius) is the exact temperature mentiond in the study that I posted. Page 85 of that study show a picture of a fully developed fruit from a constant 68/59 (day/night temperature) regime next to a pathetic one grown at 86/77 (exactly my heat zone's weather for 180-210 odd days a year). What blows my mind on the map, though is that much of Hawaii (where cherimoya is known to fruit) is in the same heat zone as Alaska!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm%3Fpostnum%3D21544&ved=2ahUKEwi2rdnS-pL6AhVzmIQIHbfgBOoQr4kDegQICxAE&usg=AOvVaw1WNxSCvnQtDa1GZTVO1W1v

Also of interest in the study is that warm temps are more harmful at the beginning of fruit development. Fruits that got cool temps at the beginning of development and then got hit with high temps at the second half still got roughly 75% - 80% of full fruit size. Those that had high temps followed by cool were 65%-70% of full fruit size. The fruits grown at 86 the entire time were only about 50% of full size. Does that make sense with what you guys see in California?

Bush2Beach

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2022, 10:35:49 AM »
It’s relevant but also can easily skew and is increasingly old data.
Most of the zone in hawaii that matches alaska is 2 10,000 ft volcanoes where it definitely doesn’t get above 86 ever.
Hawaii looks like a rainbow on that map because of all the different climate zones.
Cherimoya fruits best in Hawaii 1,000- 1,800 ft where it is a pretty average mean temperature and yes the cool nights in the 50’s. Not too hot and not too cold.

What I see in CA is folks 20 miles inland able to fruit more varieties of cherimoya as well as atemoya grafted on Cherimoya. They have the same lows in the 30’s-50’s, but get alot more days in the 80’s than I do. So their fruit is developing faster and some varieties that never flower or do anything for me, do fine a little inland.

RollingInTheWeeds

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2022, 12:22:56 PM »
California gets hotter than Florida. I have never seen 110 here in my lifetime. The difference is that Florida never gets cool.

— Cut —

Also of interest in the study is that warm temps are more harmful at the beginning of fruit development. Fruits that got cool temps at the beginning of development and then got hit with high temps at the second half still got roughly 75% - 80% of full fruit size. Those that had high temps followed by cool were 65%-70% of full fruit size. The fruits grown at 86 the entire time were only about 50% of full size. Does that make sense with what you guys see in California?

Great info.  Thank you for posting it!  So it looks like your cherimoyas aren’t getting enough … [don’t know a name for it; maybe call it “mild hours” — similar to “chill hours”, but temps in the 50s instead of below 40.]. 

We’ll all see what the future brings, but 30 years ago the L.A. area did not get the heat we get now.  We haven’t lost our “mild hours” yet, but it’s something I’ll be aware of now.  Fortunately I also have some plants that relish the heat.  If the cherimoyas complain, the bananas will be throwing a party.

spaugh

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2022, 03:36:12 PM »
I was busy and did not hand pollinate at all this year and theres still a fair amou t of fruit set.  Some varieties set more than others.   But they definitely self pollinate.  I saw a lot of the little tiny beetles at that time also. 

Just throwing it out there.  The dry weather is not the limiting factor. 

Also, are you sure the bumpy ones wont fatten up?  How long did you let them hang?  Thry may just need to go longer into spring. 
Brad Spaugh

John B

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2022, 01:48:17 AM »
I'm 10 miles from ocean half way up a hill that gets good airflow. My microclimate (10a) is a bit warmer during the summer and cooler during the spring and winter. Pierce will self pollinate better than the others but I will have smaller but fully developed fruit if I don't pollinate them. Those are the fruit I thinned.

Brad, this is the 3rd year of non developed fruit. The fruit in the picture was pollinated middle of March when my tree was just flushing. There are a few more seedling fruit that are even smaller.

During the periods of intense heat, the cherimoya trees do shut down a bit, but Pierce fruit does continue to develop. Now that cooler temps are back, trees look good again. It's either a crappy seedling or, as, galatians522 mentioned, it may not like this microclimate. I'm more than happy to give scions away when I cut this thing down to graft more knight and Pierce to it. Maybe someone wants to experiment (doubtful). Many other varieties I acquired in last couple years have not fruited yet (I'll let them next year) and I'll see if they'll have problems. I doubt it. But with his easy pierce has been, definitely going to top work that to this tree.

Here's a picture from last year's fruit that didn't mature. It's about the size of an 8 ball.


Seanny

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2022, 03:08:40 AM »
Best cherimoya fruit development requires temperature above 62F for 10 hours post pollination.
Do you get 10 hours above 62F in March after pollination?

In my yard, hand pollinated cherimoya fruits are much bigger than self pollinated fruits.

spaugh

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2022, 11:43:58 AM »
pollinated in March?  Cherimoyas are dormant in march and april no? 

I dont do pollination until June-August.

then the fruit do nothing all summer and then start fattening up in fall and early winter. 

when are you picking the fruit John?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 11:49:12 AM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

John B

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2022, 11:45:27 AM »
Best cherimoya fruit development requires temperature above 62F for 10 hours post pollination.
Do you get 10 hours above 62F in March after pollination?

In my yard, hand pollinated cherimoya fruits are much bigger than self pollinated fruits.

Great info. Yes, I'm sure it was but can't confirm. Other cherimoyas are developing nicely from that time.

John B

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2022, 11:49:47 AM »
pollinated in March?  Cherimoyas are dormant in march and april no? 

I dont do pollination until June-August

Usually, but I had a brief defoliation. I tried to start earlier to see if the later Ripening tube through winter was the problem. I was grafting/pruning/pollinating at same time.

First year I have done that. But again, other cherimoya  are developing so it is not from that.

spaugh

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2022, 12:02:22 PM »
Chainsaw that puppy.  Actually it takes a while for cherimoyas to come bwck from being stumped.  You probably missed the boat for hwving it ready to graft next spring.  But maybe theres still time. 
Brad Spaugh

Galatians522

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2022, 12:48:45 PM »
Somehow I missed that this was a seedling tree when I read the thread initially. I am sure that has something to do with this.

simon_grow

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2022, 01:32:48 PM »
Yes, I agree. Your fruit is small and not typical of Booth because it’s a seedling. You thinned to see if it would help but it appears it’s genetic so probably time for topworking.

Simon

John B

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Re: Booth Cherimoya Fruit not Developing/Ripening
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2022, 04:51:22 PM »
Bummer. This winter I'll get a better idea if I can top work the existing tree since it has other varieties grafted or if I need to stump it. Thanks for the help, all.

 

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