Author Topic: What's wrong with these bananas?  (Read 1116 times)

Calusa

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What's wrong with these bananas?
« on: September 13, 2022, 08:42:49 AM »
My NamWah put out its first bloom in the 1st week of June. This is their size as of today, they just don't seem to be growing any larger. I wonder what's going on with them. Shouldn't they be almost ready to harvest by now?




Now the photos below are of my Blue Java. The bloom came out in late June and now it looks like the entire stalk is dead.
What could have happened?




Amy K

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2022, 08:52:41 AM »
Hard to say without seeing the whole picture. Do you have too many suckers growing around the tree with fruit?

pineislander

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2022, 09:05:41 AM »
How many functional green leaves are on these banana plants?

Calusa

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2022, 09:07:14 AM »
I have left all the suckers free to grow around the trees in the photos. There are 6 around the NamWah and 4 around the Java. Some of the suckers have grown as big as the fruiting trees. Should I only allow 1 or 2 suckers at a time?

pineislander: there are no functional leaves on the fruiting trees. As they yellowed I cut them off.

mattyboydesigns

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2022, 09:12:42 AM »
Namwah tall or dwarf Namwah? Your "blue java" looks a little short, how tall is it? What do you feed your bananas and how do you water them?

Amy K

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2022, 09:27:32 AM »
I have left all the suckers free to grow around the trees in the photos. There are 6 around the NamWah and 4 around the Java. Some of the suckers have grown as big as the fruiting trees. Should I only allow 1 or 2 suckers at a time?

From what i know, you should only allow two or three suckers growing around the fruiting tree. Select the two that are the opposite side of each other. Any newer sucker coming up should be cut down. I'm not sure if we can save it at it's current state so I suggest trying this for next time. Good luck
« Last Edit: September 13, 2022, 09:30:30 AM by Amy K »

Calusa

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2022, 09:35:27 AM »
Namwah tall or dwarf Namwah? Your "blue java" looks a little short, how tall is it? What do you feed your bananas and how do you water them?

I kept them watered with the hose during the early dry part of Summer. With the rains they've had plenty. I fertilize them with a mango citrus fertilizer, about 2 cups every couple of months since May.



NamWah - the tallest leaves are about 10'. The tree that fruited was 6' at the crown where the pod came out.




Blue Java - tallest leaves are about 12'. The tree that fruited was at 6' at the crown.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2022, 09:37:02 AM by Calusa »

shot

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2022, 09:42:22 AM »
 Blue Java Looks like the plant has collapsed ... died!

mattyboydesigns

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2022, 09:45:51 AM »
So that's not blue java and it's most likely dwarf Namwah like your other plant. You should leave the leafs on until they brown and die. If they are fruiting without leaves then they will die back and fruit will not form properly. Banana plants fruit at the same height so if you have a sucker that's about to fruit coming off a fruiting psuedostem it can pull the energy out of the old plant especially if the old one has no leaves to provide itself with energy.

Amy K

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2022, 09:50:55 AM »
I just took a picture to give you a better idea of it. I'm no expert but this is what been working for me. My Veinte Cohol banana is having late season flower. The one in the middle is the mother tree. And then two growing big ones along its side will be the next ones to bear fruit.






Calusa

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2022, 09:51:59 AM »
So that's not blue java and it's most likely dwarf Namwah like your other plant. You should leave the leafs on until they brown and die. If they are fruiting without leaves then they will die back and fruit will not form properly. Banana plants fruit at the same height so if you have a sucker that's about to fruit coming off a fruiting psuedostem it can pull the energy out of the old plant especially if the old one has no leaves to provide itself with energy.

Thanks! How can you tell it's not Blue Java?

I should go ahead and cut that one down and thin out the smaller suckers right? Is there any hope for the other stalk in the first photo at the top of this thread?

Calusa

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2022, 09:53:34 AM »
I just took a picture to give you a better idea of it. I'm no expert but this is what been working for me. My Veinte Cohol banana is having late season flower. The one in the middle is the mother tree. And then two growing big ones along its side will be the next ones to bear fruit.






Excellent! Thanks Amy :)

Galatians522

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2022, 10:06:43 AM »
The fruits can't size properly without functional leaves. I see similar results when a plant blooms after frost knocks all the leaves off. If the plant was healthy it can sometimes fill the bunch even without leaves, but they will never get as big as when the plant has leaves. I would give the Nam Wah some more time. The Blue Java rack is toast. I have had similar trouble with that variety. I don't know if the rot is bacterial, fungal, viral, or a nutrient deficiency at this point. None of my other bananas do that including a Mysore right next to it. I am leaning toward fungal at this point and will try some fungicide the next time it blooms.

Seanny

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2022, 10:22:36 AM »
I cut off flower bulb once male flowers open.
No point in letting the tree wastes energy on the male flowers.

mattyboydesigns

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2022, 10:38:47 AM »
Some of those bananas on the first rack look plump enough to ripen  just fine. You can leave it on and see if the rest plump up more and cut off when you see some signs of yellow.

The plant is too short, the leaf and petiole size, the shape and the looks of the fruit tell me it's not blue java. I see you live in St Pete. Do you want the real blue java?

Calusa

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2022, 11:06:46 AM »
I know the Blue Java get really tall and there are "knuckles" where the fruit is attached to the hand.

I am going to thin out the clumps, fertilize and wait for the next crop to appear. I appreciate all the help from everyone here - thanks!!!

mattyboydesigns

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2022, 01:27:46 PM »
Blue java will fruit when the psuedostem reaches 12-15'. They don't like growing up straight and are almost always at weird angles. They have longer petioles giving them a droopy appearance. The fruit from the start are covered in a waxy coating that makes them appear blue.(more of a silvery light green).

top side of blue java leaf has no red spine but it does have a red spine on the bottom.

bottom of namwah leaf has no red spine.

top side of namwah leaf has a red spine.

some wax on namwah fruit making them appear light green. Ripen to a pale yellow color.

lots of wax on blue java fruit even when yellow.  Ripen to a brighter yellow than namwah but still pale cause the wax.

spaugh

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2022, 01:59:07 PM »
there are no functional leaves on the fruiting trees. As they yellowed I cut them off.

It needs leaves to make energy to ripen the fruit
Brad Spaugh

Amy K

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2022, 02:39:29 PM »
Blue java will fruit when the psuedostem reaches 12-15'. They don't like growing up straight and are almost always at weird angles. They have longer petioles giving them a droopy appearance. The fruit from the start are covered in a waxy coating that makes them appear blue.(more of a silvery light green).

top side of blue java leaf has no red spine but it does have a red spine on the bottom.

bottom of namwah leaf has no red spine.

top side of namwah leaf has a red spine.

some wax on namwah fruit making them appear light green. Ripen to a pale yellow color.

lots of wax on blue java fruit even when yellow.  Ripen to a brighter yellow than namwah but still pale cause the wax.

Wow i love the details. This make me wonder if what i have is even blue java. If you can, could you please confirm it for me? It look like Cavendish banana to me. Specifically the pup since they all got red splashes. I bought it from Tallahassee nursery and they all look like this






spaugh

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2022, 03:12:37 PM »
I dont think blue java has wine spots.
Brad Spaugh

Amy K

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2022, 03:22:30 PM »
There go my money lol D:

mattyboydesigns

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2022, 03:43:18 PM »
There go my money lol D:
Like spaugh said Blue java does not have wine spotting at any stages of growth. A couple varieties have wine spotting but it's very particular to the canvendish varieties. By how short the petioles look I would say dwarf canvendish.once it fruits you'll know for sure. Where are you located, if you really want one I'll get you one and you can just pay for the shipping.

Calusa

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2022, 03:45:19 PM »
Thanks for the photos and descriptions Matty!

Amy K

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2022, 04:46:56 PM »
There go my money lol D:
Like spaugh said Blue java does not have wine spotting at any stages of growth. A couple varieties have wine spotting but it's very particular to the canvendish varieties. By how short the petioles look I would say dwarf canvendish.once it fruits you'll know for sure. Where are you located, if you really want one I'll get you one and you can just pay for the shipping.

That's very kind of you Matty. I would love one. I'll send you the PM.

spencerw

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2022, 02:52:24 PM »
Probably more water for the plants. How much are they getting? My plants get over 150 inches of rain per year. They need at least 100 to make full sized racks. Probably irrigate
The black peduncle on the other mat looks like a fungal problem. Probably remove the trunk and see what the next one does.
I let my mats grow freely for 2-3 years then I dig the entire mat and reset it. I consistently get 100lb racks but from different varieties. But my namwah more like 50lb racks normally

Calusa

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2022, 09:35:26 AM »
Well, after a couple of months of waiting these little babies finally came through!

Two weeks ago I cut the lower half of the stalk and put them in a paper bag and let them ripen. They were really tasty and sweet though slightly tough in the middle. But overall they were great. Probably about 35 fruits.

I just took this photo of what remains and as you can see they are getting ripe. I picked one and ate it, and the flavor and texture was perfect - far better than the ones I cut earlier. I think I'll just leave them hanging and eat them as they ripen right where they are. As for the other trees, there are no new fruits yet but I am sure they will produce. Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions and guidance.


Amy K

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2022, 12:34:15 PM »
That wonderful. Look so much better, you did a great job turning it around. Congrats on the taste

Calusa

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2022, 06:53:28 PM »
Thanks Amy.

Is there a problem with having two trees the same size next to each other, or should there only be one big tree and a couple of smaller ones?

tru

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2022, 07:07:44 PM »
In my experience banana roots are pretty self contained and grow downward, with medium length white strands that are about as thick as a pencil. I have two next to eachother that grow great every year, but then again they aren't fruiting bananas. Just speaking from what I've seen transplanting them, best of luck

Galatians522

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2022, 09:42:14 PM »
Thanks Amy.

Is there a problem with having two trees the same size next to each other, or should there only be one big tree and a couple of smaller ones?

Ideally you want 3 trees per mat. One ready to bloom, one about half grown, and one just starting. If you get too many stalks, they compete for light and nutrients and the bunches get small.

Calusa

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2022, 11:19:35 AM »
Thanks Amy.

Is there a problem with having two trees the same size next to each other, or should there only be one big tree and a couple of smaller ones?

Ideally you want 3 trees per mat. One ready to bloom, one about half grown, and one just starting. If you get too many stalks, they compete for light and nutrients and the bunches get small.

Just what I wanted to know - thanks! :)

pineislander

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2022, 03:36:52 PM »
A well grown healthy Dwarf Nam Wah will make 10 or more hands.
Here is a comparison set of photos which can help identify Nam Wah vs Blue Java. The difference is clear enough but there are many out there mixing these up. Some tissue culture plantlets can be off-type and mislabeling does happen.
 


Calusa

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2022, 10:36:33 AM »
Thanks!

JoshuaTilaranCR

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2022, 09:28:49 AM »
I skimmed through this and didn't see anyone ask if the plants that were fruiting were from the first root corm that was planted. It could be that the corm was harvested and cut far back before it was planted and that's why there weren't many bananas and they weren't that big. Give the plants time and see what happens with the next racks, they should be bigger.

Just my thoughts but that could be the case for the small racks. Also for the people saying to only leave a couple pups, that's more recommended for plantations. As long as you're giving the plants a lot of organic matter, like dumping kitchen scraps around them and cutting and dropping all the leaves and spent plants, you can certainly leave all the pups. One year I tried the "two to three" pups thing and my total harvest went down quite a bit. Now I leave everything except the occasional plant I take out to gift or sell and I almost always have racks on the plants.

Calusa

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2022, 08:29:06 PM »
Both fruiting trees were the original plants I put in the ground from pots.

JoshuaTilaranCR

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Re: What's wrong with these bananas?
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2022, 08:42:02 AM »
That's the problem right there then. Were they sword sucker size. Tall, strong and thin leaves? Or were they water suckers, also called seedling or tissue culture babies? Short with wide leaves and a thin trunk?

I bought a dwarf plantain once that was a water sucker or "seedling" and when it fruited there were maybe 10 plantains, probably less, and they were small. Some people say to cut those down when new pups start to grow but I always leave them.

The next racks you get should be much bigger and fuller. Good luck!

 

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