Author Topic: Ilama seedlings dropping new growth  (Read 1229 times)

Fleep

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Ilama seedlings dropping new growth
« on: October 28, 2020, 08:35:11 PM »
So I sowed Ilama seeds or to be more exact Annona diversifolia seeds and they grew well outdoors during late spring throughout now. I had to bring them inside recently because temperatures have dropped in my area. Within the first day I left them under grow lights with my other plants they started blistering and dropping all their new growth. The stems where the new growth drops also seems affected. The mature leaves seem unaffected. My soursop, guava and other plants don’t react negatively in this way. Anyone experienced this and can possibly explain why this is happening? Could it possibly be low humidity, soil temperature, light intensity, maybe something else entirely? I’m guessing the source may be in the roots. If I can keep them alive and thriving again next year, I’ve been thinking of trying to graft onto my soursop and cherimoyas and seeing if there are any changes for next winter. Until then I would like to figure out how to keep them alive. Thanks!







« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 08:36:48 PM by Fleep »

Guanabanus

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Re: Ilama seedlings dropping new growth
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2020, 02:05:12 PM »
Sorry no one has responded to your post!  Probably because no one here has seen that before.  I haven't either.

I just have questions.  How short were the days, and how cold had the nights gotten before you moved it indoors?  [Where it is native in the hills of western Guatemala, temperatures get down into the mid fifties some nights during the long winter dry season, and ilama trees drop all their leaves, starting with new growth.  I have not been there to watch that in the late Fall, but I have seen just the older, ratty bottom leaves holding on in February.]

How long were the artificial days, under the grow lights?  And how close to the lights, and what temperature?

Have you sprayed with anything?
Har

Radoslav

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Re: Ilama seedlings dropping new growth
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2020, 06:24:15 AM »
We discussed it several times in this forum.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=11807.msg261361#msg261361
I witnessed it on all of my llama seedlings.
It looks like it is specific for annona diversifolia, after few years of observation, it looks like it has something to do with full spectrum of sunlight. Outdoor, this defect is strongly supressed or missing, indoor glass or macrolon have some uv filters. Its really hard to keep ilama seedling alive indoor.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 06:26:30 AM by Radoslav »

Fleep

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Re: Ilama seedlings dropping new growth
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2020, 01:26:20 AM »
@Har, thank you for responding!

The amount of daylight right before bringing it indoors was about 11 - 11.5 hours. I could not find much information about cold hardiness so I have been bringing them indoors when the temps start dropping below 60*F unless windy and then I bring them when its below 65*F. Under the grow lights, exposure was for 18 hours. That was the recommendation on the product for both high light plants and low light plants. The distance from the ilamas was about 22 inches from the tallest seedling and i raised it by another 12 inches but it didn't seem to matter much in reducing leaf loss. The temperature was a 70*f  Humidity was 46-50%. I have not sprayed it with any chemicals or fertilizers. Thanks for sharing a little bit about the behavior of ilamas in Guatemala. Its interesting to hear that they thrive in higher altitudes with slightly cooler night temperatures. Where my family lives in Eastern El Salvador, its about to feel hotter in their dry season, probably because of the lower elevation. Temps don't stray much from low 70's and in other parts of El Salvador, it doesn't get lower then 60's.

@RadoSlav thanks for responding.

I did run into the post you linked but the pictures from the person that started the post posted pictures that looked more like a nutrient deficiency and left prematurely. Now that I see the rest of what others posted, it seems to be more related to my issue. Since I started this post, the closest thing I could find so far was a study in immediate drop of leaves related to citruses under grow lights. They call it winter leaf drop. The root temperature was found out to be too low and so the roots went into dormancy, and leaves continued to photosynthesize under the lights. The problem was that the roots help the leaves transpire and regulate leaf temperature. If the roots didn't work, then the leaves would drop from overheating. But since I found the info I have moved my seedlings to a northern window avoiding direct sunlight and they seem to be doing fine for now. New growth seems to be appearing so maybe the roots aren't dormant. I chose a northern window because I was afraid that the same thing would happen as under the grow lights under a southern window. I might test my southern window next fall along with grafting to to test for winter leaf drop. Outdoors, I have never had issues with sudden leaf drop, but the pots are warm from the sun and the outdoor conditions are as natural as possible. But who knows, maybe it isn't winter leaf drop or a natural dormancy like what happens in central America. Maybe its something emitted or lacking from the grow lights. My grow lights are led and don't advertise that they emit in the UV spectrum, just the visible spectrum. But I will see if I can try to integrate indoor glass and macralon with my grow light and see if that helps.

 

Guanabanus

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Re: Ilama seedlings dropping new growth
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2020, 10:48:44 AM »
The hills that I referred to are the foothills, well under 1,000 feet in elevation, in northwestern Guatemala--- prime coffee-growing area.

As I have no non-greenhouse indoor-growing experience, I hope that more persons with experience with grow-lights, humidity-control, etc., will weigh in about your excellently specific report.
Har

Radoslav

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Re: Ilama seedlings dropping new growth
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2020, 01:16:47 PM »
Humidity does not help, first those marks on leaf, then leaf drops, then die back, then plant dies. It happened to plants indoor at room temp. also to plants in greenhouse with winter temperature approx. 7°Celsius. So I think it has  something to do with missing UV light, but ... ?

 

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