Author Topic: Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?  (Read 1407 times)

FigoVelo

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Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?
« on: November 26, 2022, 11:00:27 AM »
Hi everyone. I am zone-pushing with white sapote as well as cherimoya in Sonoma County, California. I would love to find some good data on variety-specific frost tolerance in white sapote. Information on cherimoya would be great, too, though I suspect it is even scarcer.

We read in nursery literature that Mexicola avocado is hardy to 18, Stewart to 18, Bacon and Zutano to 24 and 26, respectively. Etc...

So, what about white sapote varieties? Which ones can withstand the most severe blasts of frost? And how low can they go? Anyone have data? I ask as someone who has 6 seedlings in the ground and wants to graft the right cultivars this spring.

Thanks very much!
Alastair

Shovel n Seed

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Re: Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2022, 01:35:24 PM »
 I have a bit of info on white sapote but it's an unknown seedling that's about 12-15ft tall. I'm in Trenton, FL literally on the 8b-9a line and this tree is impressive. In mild years it's not affected and bad years, like last year 22F, it dies back. But any year it dies back it dies back less and keeps getting bigger. It's been in the ground 4-6 years and flowered last year. It gets full sun until noon and then gets shaded by the mulberry right next to it...3 ft away. I'm planting more in more strategic locations now that I see what it can handle.

Hope that helps. Oh and maturity of a tree plays a major role in its cold hardiness.

achetadomestica

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Re: Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2022, 02:42:21 PM »
I have 3 white sapotes in the ground that are producing fruit.
Last year I was under 32F for over 5 hours and my trees were
ok. They did not fruit though. After the cold night they flushed new
leaves but not flowers? I am in Florida though and your dewpoint is
different. I would trust someone in your area more

Jack, Nipomo

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Re: Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2022, 06:49:00 PM »
Have a number of White Sapotes here in Central Coast of CA.  Trees are over 30 years old and have taken 19, 20 degrees with no damage.  Smaller ones do indeed get hit, but recover.  Low temperature, duration, humidity, and plant condition factor in relative to damage.  Our summer nights are cool (45 degrees), daytime temps in 70s.  The trees never have a lush growth due to cooler temps.  A growth flush from warm days followed by a freeze would certaiunly be detrimental.  Most of our trees are multigrafted and the different varieties seem to tolerate our frosts/freezes easily.  In the past few years we have experienced very few frost/freezing nights due to global warming and infact rarely get apricots (a previous commercial growing area) as not enough winter chill.  Been at this location for almost 50 years and the winters are indeed changing.  Use to use smudge pots (return stack heaters) and covers, but now rarely see any damage now (probably will pay for this comment this winter!)

FigoVelo

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Re: Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2022, 09:13:04 PM »
Thanks for the input, and I'm keen on hearing more.

Jack, it sounds like your climate is more or less like mine. I have summer nights between 48 and 56, for the most part, and it gets down to the high 20s most winters. So, it sounds like your trees tolerate the climatic strains they're subjected to -- but how do your trees do in terms of fruiting? Are they prolific? Consistently loaded? Do they produce so much fruit you can't keep up and it splatters everywhere? That's the kind of white sapote tree I want ... times 10!

Jack, Nipomo

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Re: Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2022, 09:02:54 AM »
I think our climate is similar.  My oldest white sapote is dangerous to walk under due to the many fallen fruits.  Multigrafted, the fruiting season is drawn out.  They are prolific fruiters here and I don't worry about frost or freeze with any of them.  About 40 years ago we had 17 degrees (killed lots of very old Eucalyptus globulus trees all over thge Nipomo Mesa, planted about 1906).  The oldest white sapote tree still shows a scar on one limb (about 10 in diameter) from that hit.  In our 50 years here, that was the only time it was that cold.  Our usual temps 30 years ago was always in the low 20s, now we barely make the low 30s.  I had similar experiences with macadamias, but they don't suffer either now.  Maturity helps, lost lots of small macadamias to freeze years ago.  Zone pushing is a moving target when the zone changes.

FigoVelo

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Re: Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2022, 09:35:27 AM »
Dangerous to walk under. Perfect.  ;D

You mention the freeze about 40 years ago. Are you referring to the 1990 freeze? Or was there a big event in the early 1980s?

ScottR

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Re: Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2022, 11:13:54 AM »
I live in same area as Jack, only closer to Ocean and in some what of a cold sink area all of my w. sapote trees are hardy to this area with the coldest lately only down to 27-29F. In 2006-07 one of those years we got down to 16F none of my trees to burnt from hard freeze other than newer top growth. You should be able to grow them in your area with no problem.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2022, 11:20:19 AM by ScottR »

FigoVelo

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Re: Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2022, 12:29:06 PM »
Thanks everyone. Good to know. Sub-20-degree hardiness is phenomenal. It's a wonder this is classified as a "tropical" fruit in some literature! My question initially pertained to specific varieties that may be more frost hardy than others, but maybe it doesn't quite matter. Maybe all are sufficiently hardy?

I'll try and reserve my frost anxiety for cherimoyas and lucumas from this point forward!

Jack, Nipomo

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Re: Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2022, 09:38:05 PM »
Had 4 in trunk cherimoyas cut down by freezes and also my lucuma knocked back to 3 inch wood.  Not much except new growth on white sapotes damaged.  Not happening any more as we have seen a change in winter temps (and rainfall, sadly)

Oolie

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Re: Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2022, 10:26:25 PM »
For the 4 inch trunk ones, how cold was it? I'm looking at January data for multiple years in Nipomo and not seeing anything below 30 recorded, but in mountainous California there are always distinct microclimates.

I'm planning on planting some seedlings out in Alabama next year, they should be 2-4 inch trunk by then (inarched).

It gets down to 20 degrees there most years, so I'm curious if there's no chance at all.

Jack, Nipomo

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Re: Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2022, 09:05:23 AM »
Unfortunately, the NWS does not reflect accurate historical weather as all weather is local.  Our NWS tends to use data collected on sensors close to the ocean and surrounded by grass not at all reflective of the Nipomo area. I did the local weather daily for two newspapers for years  from data recording thermometers installed when we first moved to the area.  Still record daily temps as part of efforts to grow those plants that we probably shouldn't.  We are surrounded by commercial avocado groves (mostly on hills) and I have vivid memories of black skeletons remaing of groves after some of the old freezes.  They have all been replanted, but facing issues with water now.  I vividly remember the temp that took down my largest cherimoya: 25 degrees.  I have kept that in mind as a limit.  I started some Costa Rican seedlings collected from mountain tops that experienced frost/freezing and they have grown out and sustained growth with colder temps.  But again, freeze duration, humidity, and plant maturity make a difference in cold tolerance. Where would the fun be if it weas all easy?

Tropheus76

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Re: Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2022, 09:32:27 AM »
I have one in cold 9B and it has survived the last few years of winter freezes and frosts. It most likely will lose its leaves however but they come back in spring. I bought it at the Tampa fruit tree show a few years back as a seedling, it was cheap and the owner didnt want to reload it and as a seedling, I couldnt begin to tell you what variety. Its about 8 feet tall now. I found health and growth improved greatly once I started to actively remove those snakehead looking caterpillars that would ravage the thing.

Pokeweed

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Re: Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2022, 07:20:30 AM »
I've had one for about 15 years. It was a named varieyy, but just root stock now, as it freezes to the ground below about 25F. The rootstock must be huge. It'll grow 8 feet in a year, but most Winters knock it down. I'm in Houston, 9a. It did survive our deep freeze of about 12į for a couple of days, but still had to regrow from the roots. D

Taylorhill

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Re: Frost hardiness data for White Sapote?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2023, 09:38:23 PM »
There was a man that had one here in my zone 8b that was 30+ years old! Produced alot yearly! Sadly our winter blast couple years back killed it totally. I know it had survived around 20f with major dieback. Mine are all in a greenhouse but during our same record winter the greenhouse hit 26f and it didnít effect it at all. I plan to plant my first one/two outside this spring. I think the main thing is protecting it until it gets big. They grow super fast!

 

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