Author Topic: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]  (Read 10500 times)

Peep

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2022, 02:53:01 PM »
Is anyone able tell me what these lumps on this young branch are? Could this be from gall wasp? I'm a bit concerned. Few weeks ago there was also resin coming out of different spots on this branch, the big bits I removed some weeks ago, but you can still see it a bit.






Peep

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2022, 12:55:40 PM »
Because I bought plants from Adavo, including Kabosu, and there are some rumours about the possibility of it having Tristeza, I have ordered test kits.

These are home kits, it works similar to how covid has detailed PCR tests and also simple positive / negative tests for home use.

Here is more information for who is interested: https://orders.agdia.com/agdia-immunostrip-for-ctv-isk-78900
To buy it in Europa you have to contact the European side of the company, located in France: https://www.agdia-emea.com/en/product/citrus-tristeza-virus-2

Email reply was quick, shipping as well, will arrive tomorrow. Pricing is 54 for 5 tests and 160 for a set of 25. Shipping to me in Belgium was 28 (FedEx), and with taxes the 5 test kit came to 98,40 including shipping.

Not really sure which plants I will test besides the Kabosu.

This is what I have from Adavo, so can't test them all. Suggestions for which varieties are at the highest risk are welcome.

- Hanayu (Hana Yuzu)
- Hana Yuzu (The "Sudachi" version which isn't Sudachi)
- Trifeola
- Kabosu
- Kishu-mikan           
- Hashimoto Satsuma
- Taiwanica / Nansho Daidai   
- Poncirus x C. unshiu
- C. unshiu x C. junos   
- YUZU N1
- YUZU N4
- Citrangeremo
- Glauca x Shekwasha   
- Ichang Papeda IVIA
- Citrus sinensis "GLORY MIČURINA"
- Triplode Reale
 

BorisR

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2022, 08:04:36 AM »
Is anyone able tell me what these lumps on this young branch are?
Copper deficiency is possible.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 08:06:35 AM by BorisR »

Peep

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2022, 12:14:05 PM »
Copper deficiency is possible.

From a quick google it seems that could be a possibility, big thanks for the tip!

I happen to have some copper sulphate on hand (the blue crystals), I'll try to find some information on the dosage and give it a go.   

Peep

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2022, 05:30:22 PM »
Today I have tested my Kabosu from Adavo for the Tristeza virus. Everything done with care. My result is negative. There is always a small chance that it is a false negative. My plant may not have enough virus or the test may not have been accurate. Or that other Kabosu plants from Adavo have it, but mine doesn't. I can't rule anything out completely, but I can share my experience and the result of my plant and test. It would still be interesting to see more people test theirs.

Here are the pictures:









« Last Edit: November 22, 2022, 05:32:28 PM by Peep »

BorisR

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2022, 06:06:05 AM »
And where did you get the test? Do you have a photo of the packaging?

Peep

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2022, 07:42:41 AM »
And where did you get the test? Do you have a photo of the packaging?

A few posts earlier I wrote about where you can buy it. What do you want to know from the packaging? The test strips are in an air tight tube shaped plastic container, put in a ziplock bag together with the sample extraction bags. This was put into the FedEx packaging.

Florian

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2022, 09:07:39 AM »
Unless proven otherwise, I will assume you did everything right and the test worked fine thus your Kabosu is free of Tristeza. I don't have it exactly because I was told by the French that it had Tristeza. Might just get it some time after all..

Peep

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2022, 10:06:41 AM »
Unless proven otherwise, I will assume you did everything right and the test worked fine thus your Kabosu is free of Tristeza. I don't have it exactly because I was told by the French that it had Tristeza. Might just get it some time after all..

I believe it is possible for my plant to have it, but not active enough for it to be tested. Some cultivars are more sensitive to it than others.
There seems to be an alternative, but slower, way of testing, where you graft a piece onto a cultivar that is sensitive to CTV. I'm educating myself on it more.

Quote
"The objective of biological indexing is to detect the presence of CTV in plant accessions or selections or in samples whose sanitary status is being assessed, and to estimate the aggressiveness of the isolate on Citrus aurantifolia (Mexican, key or Omani lime), C. macrophylla or Citrus paradisi Macfadyen (Duncan grapefruit) seedlings"
https://www.fao.org/3/cb4687en/cb4687en.pdf

Unfortunately I do not have any of these varieties, so I would first have to get seeds and grow them. Some people say Bitter Orange is also sensitive, although not as much as the others. I do have a bitter orange on carrizo rootstock that I do not need anymore, so I'm trying to find out if it's worth it to graft kabosu on it. Someone on Facebook also just told me that I can graft a sensitive plant onto kabosu for the same results. I do have Pomelo Enzo, which is a seedling of Duncan, if I'm not mistaken. So I could try that, but my Kabosu is small and I'm not sure it has a good spot to graft to unless I'm ruining the plant itself.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 10:36:22 AM by Peep »

Ilya11

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2022, 10:16:11 AM »
I have Kabosu from the budwood that I got from Roberto. The leaves are less round and have some suspicious wrinkles.






Best regards,
                       Ilya

Peep

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #60 on: November 23, 2022, 10:49:47 AM »
I have Kabosu from the budwood that I got from Roberto. The leaves are less round and have some suspicious wrinkles.

From a quick google I do notice there are quite a few pictures where Kabosu leaves have some wrinkle to them.

I also noticed how round the leaves are. This is also on my Taiwanica from Adavo. They seem to be quite similar actually.

Is Roberto someone from this forum?

Ilya11

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2022, 11:40:32 AM »
Best regards,
                       Ilya

BorisR

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2022, 11:48:32 AM »
A few posts earlier I wrote about where you can buy it.
Thanks, I missed it.

Peep

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2023, 02:09:19 PM »
Some updates:

I germinated 80 poncirus seeds. Placing them in wet vermiculite and on a heating pad with temperature sensor set to 26C worked very well.

(I put a lid on it.)


For the optimum germination temperature of different cultivars you can find interesting information in this scientific paper: https://journals.flvc.org/fshs/article/download/86283/83199 and this next one also has some interesting data regarding germination times: https://journals.flvc.org/.../article/download/85824/82740/0

I placed them in the vermiculate on the 2nd of December, this is what they look like today:



I always keep them covered with a clear box so the air moisture stays high.

I also made a grow light setup for the seedlings:



It's a bit difficult though to regulate a good air mosture level. If it's too moist then the LED lights get wet from condensation after turning them off. I ruined €100 worth of LED's before figuring that out.

Other good news (at least to me) is that I managed to get a Nameiwa kumquat from Vessieres:



It's on C35 rootstock, but I will graft a piece onto poncirus and also use it to send some scions to other people.

On Monday another order from Adavo will ship to me. This time with scions, ten C4475 rootstocks, and another Citrangeremo. Shipping cost from Adavo is always the, even for scions it's the same as up to 16 plants.

The scions will be: Ichangquat, Ichang Lemon CRC 1215, Eremorange and Citradia "Eisenhut 139

I have poncirus rootstock and use this the most, but I thought it could be nice to put a few of my most hardy varieties also on C4475 for the increased growth speed.

I'm not sure how I can best graft the scions and where to place the grafted plants, because it is winter at the moment. I asked the question here, advice is always appreciated: https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=49846.0


« Last Edit: January 09, 2023, 11:57:05 AM by Peep »

Zitrusgaertner

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2023, 11:11:17 AM »
I have Kabosu from the budwood that I got from Roberto. The leaves are less round and have some suspicious wrinkles.








Ilya, can you remember, when did I send you this budwood? I think it came from a plant I have lost in the meantime. Originally from a Citrus-friend from Germany. Most likely it is not from Adavo (but I do nor know his source)

mikkel

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2023, 04:58:33 PM »
Ilya, is your Kabosu hardy in your garden?

Ilya11

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #66 on: January 09, 2023, 05:18:40 PM »
@Zitrusgaertner
You sent me budwood in 2017
@Mikkel
No, it is still in pot and gave the fruits for the first time this year.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Peep

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2023, 10:28:42 AM »
So on the 12th of January my order from Adavo arrived.

The C4475 seedlings had been taken out of their pots and grouped together in plastic bags. From some of the soil that was still holding shape I could see that they likely used the same as what I put them back into (7x7x18 I think).




I ordered 10, but I got a few extra it seems, that's nice. Looking neat after putting them all in pots. The size is not too bad for grafting:




I ordered scions from Ichang Lemon CRC1215, Ichangquat, Eremorange and Eisenhut Citradia 139. Placed them in a shady spot outdoors in a bucket with some water. I grafted part of them the day they arrived and part of them the day after:



Some of the scions, and the C4475 seedlings as well, seemed to be infested with bugs. Not sure if they are aphids or mites, or something else? I rinsed everything under running water and hope it doesn't spread. Might spray the C4475 with some soapy water and neem oil in a few days in case any survived.



Another downside was that some of the scions were quite thin. Especially the Eremorange seems a bit too thin and immature. I think I'm good at grafting, but this is seriously annoying to work with, keep in mind my fingers are already quite slender:



Anyway, I still managed to get some reasonable grafts with it, so fingers crossed



Another hurdle is that my rootstock was still dormant. I didn't put them indoors beforehand, because I didn't know what size of scions I would receive and couldn't pick out the right size of rootstock. I also didn't want to wake up all my rootstock and then have to put most of them outside again.

So I put a heating pad inside a cardboard box and put the newly grafted plants in there. Hoping that the heating pad would quickly wake the rootstock up. For the first week I left them in a cold room, between 12 and 15C. So the rootstock would be warm, but the scions cool. After that week I placed them in a room of maybe 18C. A few centimeters deep the soil is 23C. Haven't measured deeper down (warmer).


 
Usually I grafted end of March or later and with freshly cut scions, so I'm curious how this will end up.




« Last Edit: January 29, 2023, 10:31:37 AM by Peep »

Peep

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #68 on: July 20, 2023, 06:17:08 PM »
I should probably update this a bit more often, but anyway.

- First flowers on my Prague Chimera:







- I visited the 'Plantentuin Meise' not far from Antwerp here, and they had some citrus. Supposed to be an 'extensive collection', but I guess that's relative when you own more varieties yourself, but I guess for Belgium the standards are not super high.

The good thing however was that they had Yuzu, Sudachi, Natsu Daidai, some kind of Asian lime and then two Tachibana's. Besides the regular things like bitter orange, orange, cedro, kumquat...

Not sure if both Tachibana's were the same or not. One is labeled as Tachibana (Makino) Yu.Tanaka (https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/crc3150) and the other just as Tachibana.

The first one:





And the second:





From the first one I found a fruit:






I was quite surprised that the fragrance reminded me a lot of Yuzu. But I have not had the chance to taste any of the other special or hardy citrus varieties yet, only Yuzu from the store, and now this Tachibana. It wasn't sour like Yuzu, only a light sense of sourness. From what I read the Tachibana is more closely related to mandarin, so that makes sense. I've read before that Tachibana can have an unpleasant element in it's taste, but I didn't notice that. It was not very sweet and not very sour, so a bit boring, but not bad. Fragrance maybe not super powerful, but not unpleasant. Could probably use it for marmelade.

And thanks to @Till, who helped me with some scions, I grafted my own Tachibana's earlier this year. The small one has been shipped to another forum member now as well.



« Last Edit: July 20, 2023, 06:41:56 PM by Peep »

caladri

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2023, 07:14:10 PM »
I'm so glad you enjoyed the tachibana orange! I really don't know why western sources persist in calling it inedible or unpleasant. I think it's quite nice.

Peep

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2023, 07:54:32 PM »
I'm so glad you enjoyed the tachibana orange! I really don't know why western sources persist in calling it inedible or unpleasant. I think it's quite nice.

I kind of enjoy how small the fruits are, it's cute and the plants are pretty. But I try to have only useful and hardy varieties, so Shekwasha is the obvious one to have. But I also wanted Kishu, because the fruit quality/taste is supposedly very good so I made an exception on hardiness. But then I also felt like I had to complete the trio of these tiny-fruit varieties, so I reasoned to myself that Tachibana is at least hardier than Kishu, and I don't remember where, but from memory I think I've read somewhere that, despite the 'supposedly unpleasant' taste of Tachibana, Tachibana can create good/interesting flavor when using it to make a new hybrid. I don't know what information is accurate or not. The taste was a bit weak and boring, but not bad. Maybe it's better when used green, like Shekwasha often is. Or maybe it's when green that there is an unpleasant taste? Anyway, at least I wouldn't have to discard the (ripe) fruits, and would use them to make marmelade or throw them into kombucha or something.

For temperatures I've read:
Shekwasha -13 C
Tachibana -11 / -12
Kishu -8

caladri

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2023, 08:11:41 PM »
I'm sure growing conditions matter, too, and tachibana is also fairly genetically diverse, such that fruit quality varies a lot. Of course, with them mostly not being grown for fruit eating, that doesn't much matter. I'm curious about your comment about shekwasha: do you dislike them ripe? I like them when very, very ripe; I understand that culturally and commercially they're most useful in Japan when green, but a properly tree-ripened fruit is really quite lovely.

Peep

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2023, 06:59:13 AM »
I'm sure growing conditions matter, too, and tachibana is also fairly genetically diverse, such that fruit quality varies a lot. Of course, with them mostly not being grown for fruit eating, that doesn't much matter. I'm curious about your comment about shekwasha: do you dislike them ripe? I like them when very, very ripe; I understand that culturally and commercially they're most useful in Japan when green, but a properly tree-ripened fruit is really quite lovely.

I also wondered if the two Tachibana's they had would be the same or different.

I have not tasted Shekwasha yet, I expect  to use them green because that's how they are commercially used, but like you say, they can also  be pretty good when ripe. However, if I'm not mistaken, they ripen during winter, so fruits would get frost damaged, unless I'd have a mild winter.

Zitrusgaertner

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #73 on: July 26, 2023, 11:18:06 AM »
I have Kabosu from the budwood that I got from Roberto. The leaves are less round and have some suspicious wrinkles.







My Kabosu has died in the meantime. What ever it was this plant from Adavo was not healthy.


Peep

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Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2023, 03:17:01 PM »
My Kabosu has died in the meantime. What ever it was this plant from Adavo was not healthy.

I received my Kabosu from him in Autumn, and in spring it took a very long time before it started growing while also having a few leaves turn brown and dropping, so I got a bit concerned, but then it started growing and now it looks quite healthy. Also made a graft with it that was successful and looks alright so far. 

EDIT: adding some pictures:

This was it  on June 9th:



This is it now:


« Last Edit: July 26, 2023, 03:53:17 PM by Peep »

 

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