My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]

[Zitrusgaertner]

It may be a phosphorus deficiency.  Tomatoes look like that when there is insufficient phosphorus.  In any case use a water soluble fertilizer and spray with trace minerals for citrus.

  NO! Healthy lemons, ichang papeda and their hybrids show this phenomenon. Nothing to do with phosphorus defeciency which can rarely be seen with citrus. Citrus do not like phosphorus so there nearly always is more than citrus plants need.

[hardyvermont]

Does someone know what causes the leaf stem/veins to turn red like this?

It happens on some of my rooted poncirus cuttings:

What is the current situation?  Were you growing these plants under lights set for a long day and then changed to fewer hours/natural light?  This occurred on some of my 3/4 poncirus hybrids. Change in day length appeared to turn plants dormant.  Poncirus leaves frequently turn color before they fall.

[Peep]

What is the current situation?  Were you growing these plants under lights set for a long day and then changed to fewer hours/natural light?  This occurred on some of my 3/4 poncirus hybrids. Change in day length appeared to turn plants dormant.  Poncirus leaves frequently turn color before they fall.

Yeah the coloring is an autumn sign, it could have been from the light schedule, but at this stage with the leaves grown (during/after rooting) they would have been outside I think. But likely I kept them shaded more than usual because they were young cuttings.

[Peep]

Little update here;

I managed to add some new varieties to my collection. I got four plants from Vessieres:
- ClemYuz 2-2
- Yuzu N30 Hybrid
- Ichang Lemon 'Wagashi' (this cultivar apparently has small fruits, but the description from Vessiers is all the information I have on it)
- Keraji 'Voss D14' (according to Vessieres a little more hardy compared to the common Keraji cultivar)

I also received scions and made a graft from Taiwanica Nansho Daidai (the variant with long narrow leaves), and received a new Taiwanica plant from Lenzi (different cultivar) because the first plant I had was something else and wrongly labeled.

You can allways follow the progress of my collection through my spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bDS69kX9iBFFes3AHoAaj-wvSEzkFKqQe8QJ008WsaE/edit?usp=sharing

The four plants from Vessieres after repotting:

[Peep]

I have obtained an Ichangmoï Elisa, it is a hybrid between Ichang Papeda and Moï (C. Ichangensis x C. Pennivesiculata). It is supposedly very sour.

There is not much information about it, there is a little bit here, but I take the mentioned hardiness with a grain of salt: http://www.agrumes-passion.com/viewtopic.php?p=66826

It doesn't seem very popular, but I think it might still have some potential. I think it could potentially also be interesting to cross it with Kumquat, and hope for an 'Ichangmoïquat' that is hardier than the lemon-/limequats, but with better fruit quality than Ichangquat.

The leaves of this Ichangmoï Elisa smell quite pleasant, I compared it with a leaf of Ichang Lemon, and prefered the Ichangmoï. I did only take one Ichang Lemon leaf to compare, so not sure if some leaves might be less or more fragrant. 

[Peep]

Began trying to document more about my citrus plants, so I've scanned some of the leaves. Eventually I will scan them all, but some plants are small and not all of them have mature or healthy leaves.

Here are a few examples:







Here is the album with all of them so far, when I scan more of them, they will be added here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/EV2ys2YzHVpfSvnf8

Also feel free to let me know if you see an innacuracy in the naming of the cultivars.

I will try to make a little setup to be able to make good pictures of flowers and fruits. Fruits might take a while before all my plants are big enough, but a fair amount of them should flower in the coming season. 

[BorisR]

Great!
Hmm, I took photos for one of my projects. In the future, I planned to make sketches from them. The scans look good. But I don't like that when a leaf is flattened, it is less recognizable on the tree. You also don't have enough scale.

[mikkel]

just a short notice

HRS 899A is Changsha x Poncirus , the other way around as on your scan

great work !

[Peep]

Great!
Hmm, I took photos for one of my projects. In the future, I planned to make sketches from them. The scans look good. But I don't like that when a leaf is flattened, it is less recognizable on the tree. You also don't have enough scale.

Yes, over time I will see if I can find some good naturally flat leaves from the plants, so they don't deform on the scanner. But as I make a little setup to photograph flowers, and eventually fruits, I will also try it with leaves and see how it compares to the scans.

just a short notice

HRS 899A is Changsha x Poncirus , the other way around as on your scan

great work !

Thanks, good tip, I'll update it soon.

For this one I was also not sure if everything was correct and optimal:

Kumquat 'Nameiwa'
Citrus Japonica
Citrus Margarita 'Nagami' x Citrus Crassifolia 'Meiwa'

Also not sure if I should remove the Kumquat from the name, because in another one I also don't write Changsha Mandarin, but just Changsha. But I do write things like Ichang Papeda 'Ivia' and Yuzu 'N°3' and not just 'Ivia' by itself. So the question is if the name 'Kumquat' is on the same level as 'Ichang Papeda'

[mikkel]

I would say that since you are using Citrus instead of Fortunella, it is helpful to use Kumquat in the common name. (but this is only my personal point of view)
Kumquats are distinct from true Citrus, although they are no longer a separate genus.

just another note
Botanical names are written with a capital letter for the genus, but with a lower case letter for the species names

[Peep]

I would say that since you are using Citrus instead of Fortunella, it is helpful to use Kumquat in the common name. (but this is only my personal point of view)
Kumquats are distinct from true Citrus, although they are no longer a separate genus.

Yes, I prefer using Citrus trifoliata, Citrus japonica and Citrus glauca. To me it didn't make much sense to have some types being seperated. If so, then I think a cross between e.g. trofoliata and orange, would have been an intergeneric hybrid. So what would we call a Citrange? Also not citrus? I'm not really educated well enough yet in the genetics of citrus for the things I say to have much importance, but this was just a thought I had.

On another note, I hate the name Yuzu N30 as it implies that it's a specific cultivar of pure yuzu. It is very likely a cross with mandarin, but I'm not aware of a name for this type of hybrid (in the trend of Ichang Papeda x Kumquat being Ichangquat). So I would call it either just N30 or for example Yuzu Hybrid 'N30'. I'm not sure what is best. Yuzu Hybrid is not a very official term, so while writing Kumquat 'Nameiwa' still has some sense to it, Yuzu Hybrid 'N30' might not. Opinions welcome. For now I just wrote N30, but this is also very short and generic, a google search of N30 wouldn't give good results for example.

just another note
Botanical names are written with a capital letter for the genus, but with a lower case letter for the species names

I should have looked this up earlier, it's corrected now. I also changed the correct parts to italicized text according to the botanical naming rules.

[mikkel]

It is often referred to as hybrid N°30. But since it is a variety name, there are no rules as to what is correct and what is not.

[Zagara]

Hi peep, hi all

Peep, I think that what you are doing with your citrus collection (gathering infos, images and now scanning leaves) is really great. It will surely be very helpfull. 

About yuzu n°30 here is what I've heard:

A couple planted about 250 yuzu seeds in France in a field.
They selected the more cold résistant years after years.
A few are now famous : n° 1, 3 and 30...

It is explained in a youtube video (in french) called "ils cultivent des agrumes résistants au froid "

In the same vidéo they also said that yuzu n30, is called "yuzu"30 because it is from a yuzu seed but that is actually not a "real" yuzu taste. It is more like a mandarin and yuzu mix. They still say it is a very good fruit.

Hope that helps! Cheeers

I add the link of the video (if it worked)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmvSheROGS4
explenation on yuzu n°30 around 19'30seconds.

[BorisR]

A couple planted about 250 yuzu seeds in France in a field.
They selected the more cold résistant years after years.
A few are now famous : n° 1, 3 and 30...

Hi, Zagara!
At first I wanted to object, to say that Sebastian "Alias" did it. But then I watched the video and realized that it was about Sebastian and Bernard. Thanks for the video, it's very interesting.

[Ilya11]

Hi peep, hi all

Peep, I think that what you are doing with your citrus collection (gathering infos, images and now scanning leaves) is really great. It will surely be very helpfull. 

About yuzu n°30 here is what I've heard:

A couple planted about 250 yuzu seeds in France in a field.
They selected the more cold résistant years after years.
A few are now famous : n° 1, 3 and 30...

It is explained in a youtube video (in french) called "ils cultivent des agrumes résistants au froid "

In the same vidéo they also said that yuzu n30, is called "yuzu"30 because it is from a yuzu seed but that is actually not a "real" yuzu taste. It is more like a mandarin and yuzu mix. They still say it is a very good fruit.

Hope that helps! Cheeers

I add the link of the video (if it worked)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmvSheROGS4
explenation on yuzu n°30 around 19'30seconds.

Actually this video is rather misleading, N30 has nothing to do with Yuzu clonal selection by Sebastian (alias) and Bernard,
Alias presented this hybrid on AgrumesPassion forum some time ago:
https://www.agrumes-passion.com/viewtopic.php?t=5027&sid=0bc24ca43b1fb9d69352b3f0b6d9e2f0
Google translation:
"This new hybrid would be the cross between a juno citrus and a mandarin, obtained in Montenegro (Bar).
Mandarin may be a satsuma (for taste) or a mandarin geleking (for the shape of the fruit).
The skin is lumpy and ribbed orange-coloured. The fruit is about 6 to 7 cm in diameter.
The pulp is orange, acidic and sweet reminiscent of mandarin satsuma a little but with a very pronounced acidity.
This citrus is given as cold-resistant, but to date no tests below -10 degrees Celsius have been carried out. "

[BorisR]

Ilya, can I ask a question a little off topic?
In the above video and in another video from the same channel, they try Shiva-mikan mandarin. It is orange in color and is described as delicious as a Mediterranean mandarin. They have it withstands frosts less than satsuma.
On the other hand, according to the description from Soviet sources, it is a small yellow mandarin with a mediocre taste, which is hardly than satsuma. Zorin used it for crossing with satsuma to get a more hardy variety.
Do you think it could be the wrong variety?

[Ilya11]

For me, in this video the color is rather yellow, not orange.
I had this variety in the past, lost it in the winter with  -10C low. When tasted  in December, fruits were partly green, small, rather acid, some slight bitterness.
In the video  they taste fruits in Vessieres nursery situated in 9B zone close to Perpignan, that could explain the difference.

[Peep]

I add the link of the video (if it worked)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmvSheROGS4
explenation on yuzu n°30 around 19'30seconds.

Yes these videos are very nice! I have watched all of the citrus related videos on this channel. I have to use the subtitles though unfortunately.

[Peep]

Small general update again:

My first and only harvest so far. It was a fruit from the "Hana Yuzu (Sudachi)" that Adavo sells. It's not really new information, but it tastes like (Hana) Yuzu, Sudachi is not relevant to it. I suspect that it is likely the same as the "Smooth Skin Hanayuzu" (Hanayuzu a buccia liscia) from Lenzi, but I have not tasted that one yet.





At first I didn't really know what to do with a single fruit, but I ended up using a microplane to grate the skin right into a drinking glass. Squeezed the juice in the glass as well, added some sugar syrup and let it sit for half a day to extract some of the oils in the grated skin. Then just added water in the glass and it was a really good lemonade. Didn't filter out the fine bits of skin, didn't bother me, was a bit like drinking juice with pulp.

Because my plants are on a rooftop, there can be some strong wind turbulence and I was in need of some more protection for certain plants. Recently I finished building my tiny green house in the basement and set it up on the roof. The back (against the wall) is still open so it's mostly wind protection right now.

[Florian]

My smooth-skinned Hanayuzu from Lenzi tastes just like regular Hanayuzu. It did have some fruit on it when it arrived that had a relatively smooth skin as far as I remember. But all subsequent fruits have just looked like plain normal Hanayuzu (or like the one you show).

[Peep]

My smooth-skinned Hanayuzu from Lenzi tastes just like regular Hanayuzu. It did have some fruit on it when it arrived that had a relatively smooth skin as far as I remember. But all subsequent fruits have just looked like plain normal Hanayuzu (or like the one you show).

Yeah, I've been looking at some pictures, and while my fruit wasn't as bumpy as Hana Yuzu fruits are sometimes, it also isn't really more smooth than regular Hana Yuzu that I've seen picutres of.

Maybe the two variants that Adavo sells are exactly the same. Unless one is 'regular' and the other 'extra bumpy'. Instead of regular and smooth.

In the picture on the Agrumi Lenzi website, there is a somewhat unique shape visible on the fruit to the far right. I don't know if this is normal for (regular) Hana Yuzu. I haven't seen this ribbed trait yet in other Hana Yuzu pictures.





 

[Zagara]

A couple planted about 250 yuzu seeds in France in a field.
They selected the more cold résistant years after years.
A few are now famous : n° 1, 3 and 30...

Hi, Zagara!
At first I wanted to object, to say that Sebastian "Alias" did it. But then I watched the video and realized that it was about Sebastian and Bernard. Thanks for the video, it's very interesting.

You're welcome,  happy to share

[Zagara]

Hi peep, hi all

Peep, I think that what you are doing with your citrus collection (gathering infos, images and now scanning leaves) is really great. It will surely be very helpfull. 

About yuzu n°30 here is what I've heard:

A couple planted about 250 yuzu seeds in France in a field.
They selected the more cold résistant years after years.
A few are now famous : n° 1, 3 and 30...

It is explained in a youtube video (in french) called "ils cultivent des agrumes résistants au froid "

In the same vidéo they also said that yuzu n30, is called "yuzu"30 because it is from a yuzu seed but that is actually not a "real" yuzu taste. It is more like a mandarin and yuzu mix. They still say it is a very good fruit.

Hope that helps! Cheeers

I add the link of the video (if it worked)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmvSheROGS4
explenation on yuzu n°30 around 19'30seconds.

Actually this video is rather misleading, N30 has nothing to do with Yuzu clonal selection by Sebastian (alias) and Bernard,
Alias presented this hybrid on AgrumesPassion forum some time ago:
https://www.agrumes-passion.com/viewtopic.php?t=5027&sid=0bc24ca43b1fb9d69352b3f0b6d9e2f0
Google translation:
"This new hybrid would be the cross between a juno citrus and a mandarin, obtained in Montenegro (Bar).
Mandarin may be a satsuma (for taste) or a mandarin geleking (for the shape of the fruit).
The skin is lumpy and ribbed orange-coloured. The fruit is about 6 to 7 cm in diameter.
The pulp is orange, acidic and sweet reminiscent of mandarin satsuma a little but with a very pronounced acidity.
This citrus is given as cold-resistant, but to date no tests below -10 degrees Celsius have been carried out. "

Oh ok, good to know , thanks

[Zagara]

Your wind protection greenhouse looks good peep👍
Be carefull that the températures don't go too high if the sun hits it, but i think that you are already aware of that. 

[Peep]

My Pomelo Enzo is by far the plant that has grown the most in this short bit of spring we've had so far. Moved it from a 25cm pot to 30cm a week ago:




Did the same with my Yuzumelo (Yuzu x Citrumelo):



The Pomelo Enzo has lots of flower buds, but it's mostly on the Yuzumelo that I hope to grow a fruit. The Yuzumelo has only two large flowers and a third small flower bud on new growth as well.



So far, my Sudachi, Hana Yuzu, Trifeola and Furrowed Bitter Orange also have flower buds.