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Messages - brian

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Which variety of black sapote did you get a grafted tree of, brian?

I got a Bernicker.  I didn't know anything about the varieties so I just picked one

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ice cream bean questions
« on: Today at 02:50:51 PM »
I have had one in Central Florida 9b/10a for about 8 years or so. Its roughly 18 feet tall and would be that spread if I didnt cut it back every few years. I have never had any fruit/pods from it. No clue why, it gets plenty of irrigation and hasnt frozen back in a few years.

Does it even flower?  Mine flowered for a year or two before setting and pods for the first time last year.  I dunno if it was pollination or maturity

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ice cream bean questions
« on: Today at 12:58:53 PM »
There's a nursery in LA that had air layers at least a year old (probably two based on the span of the lateral branches, these had been sitting there a while) that were fruiting in five gallon pots in December, like eight or nine pods on a four-foot tree. I picked up two and one is still in the five gallon pot, one just got planted, both are putting on a new round of flowers.  Probably depends on the tree. I can take pictures tomorrow of the one I just planted. EDIT: I'm trying to remember which freaking nursery, it was south of Compton.

That's really interesting... I should try marcotting a new child off my seedling tree and replace the parent with it to see if I can have a smaller one.  Even if the child ends up growing just as big as the parent if it fruits much sooner it could be a perpetual replacement every few years while still getting fruit.   

Maybe that will give me something to do while I wait for spring :)

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« on: February 20, 2024, 10:07:05 PM »
Well now I want a new white sapote.  I just got a grafted black sapote, too.  I want to see how much better it is than my seedling one.

They're the most creamy (best) when allowed to become very ripe.

Yup, I let my canistel ripen until they can't hold their own weight anymore and start to become flat on the bottom and when cut open the flesh closest to the seed is just starting to become translucent. Then they must be eaten immediately or they'll be totally rotten by the next day.

I started some Ross Sapote seeds last year.  I don't think I cracked them, I can't remember.  If I did the usual way I do it is to get vice grip pliars and squeeze them until they start to crack but not totally opening the shell.  The idea is just to get water to penetrate easily and allow them to crack themselves open more easily.  I don't think it is absolutely necessary.  If you are handy with power tools you could try using a grinder, sander, cutting wheel, etc. to cut into the hard shell a bit instead of trying to crack it with compression.

I didn't get great germination rate on the seeds, I think of the 10 or so I started I ended up with only two healthy seedlings.  About half rotted before sprouting and many of the ones that sprouted died off before growing much. 

I have an older seedling that started flowing at 4 years old, while still fairly small.  I have a thead with pictures here: .  This was last year, no fruit set yet but hoping it will this year.  My canistel set flowers and no fruit for a year or so, but now it sets a ton of fruit. 

I *believe* the seedling fruit is supposed to be quite close to the parent, but with some minor variance. Ross Sapote seems to be commonly grown from seed but I have also seen it for sale grafted.  I have never actually tried the fruit but I am looking forward to it.  I actually bought a grafted one when I was getting impatient with the seedling, but then the seedling started flowering and the grafted one is still tiny.  I guess if I get the opportunity I will compare the seedling to the grafted one and see.  I'm not sure if there is a lineage back to some "original Ross" or if grafted ones are just scion from a random mature seedling. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Red Wax Jambu
« on: February 20, 2024, 04:09:46 PM »
Looks nice and healthy.  Is it grafted?  I heard they take a long time from seed

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« on: February 20, 2024, 11:13:35 AM »
I see alot of gardeners selling it for $2/lb so I don't know if would dedicated a space for it when it's so cheap.

I don't think SplorKeLZ will be finding many local sellers for $2/lb in Seattle :)    Unless it is making it up from CA.    I have never seen white or black sapote in any market in area, even stores that have exotic fruit sections. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« on: February 20, 2024, 08:47:36 AM »
Gross? Can you elaborate?

Off-tasting, like an overripe fruit that is beginning to spoil.  But they were all like that, tree ripened or counter ripened, I tried at various stages. 

I don't want to let my one experience speak to the whole variety, though.  I hear they can be quite good and I'll be happy to try another one from somebody else's tree :)

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« on: February 19, 2024, 09:44:26 PM »
My white sapote is a grafted suebell, supposedly, and I think the fruit is gross.  However, Kaz said it doesn't look right for suebell and might be something else.  It definitely is grafted, not a seedling.  I am looking forward to trying more white sapote types.

Based on my very limited experience so far I prefer black sapote

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Kinzu/Hong Kong/Fortunella hindsii seeds
« on: February 19, 2024, 07:22:53 PM »
I have a bunch from Frank still growing steadily.  They are very healthy.  No flowers yet, seedlings are still about 8in tall.  Slow growers.

Hope he's still around!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: CO2 Generator
« on: February 19, 2024, 07:10:55 PM »
I run an unvented natural gas heater in my greenhouse in winter and the CO2 levels tend to remain in the thousands of ppm for at least a few hours of daylight, long after the heater has stopped running because the sun is out.

I have no way of determining what effect it might have because I have no control to compare to.  I had some concerns about ethylene buildup causing problems - a potential problem I read about, but it doesn't seem to be causing any issues.  I have a carbon monoxide detector, obviously, and a CO2 detector to see if it ever gets to dangerous CO2 levels (nope)

I thought about setting my heater to run at regular intervals throughout the day purely to generate CO2 when temps are >55F but <85F but I didn't feel like adding another themostat.  If you find some convincing literature I might try it... the limited stuff I read made it seem it was kind of hard to make effective because the CO2 is needed most during peak growth when controlling temperature usually means venting outside air.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Anyone's citrus blooming right now?
« on: February 18, 2024, 09:55:43 PM »
Yup, all my citrus are flushing.  The kumquats are swelling some new buds but they are always behind the rest.  Everything else has new growth, flowers, or new fruitlets

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« on: February 18, 2024, 09:52:41 PM »

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ice cream bean questions
« on: February 18, 2024, 09:36:34 PM »
Honestly I would love to see you succeed in doing this.  It might be possible, but it will be a challenge.

I am a fan of wide and shallow bonsai-style fruit trees and I have some experience with it, but I am no expert and I am not familiar with all the methods.  I use it mostly as a compromise for trees that aren't good enough to get a spot in ground but I don't want to trash them.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« on: February 18, 2024, 09:31:52 PM »
A white sapote seems like a good candidate to try.  A grafted one will fruit quite a bit at a modest size.  Mine made more fruit than I could eat at 4ft tall in a 20gal container.

I dunno how small a grafted black sapote can fruit as I only have seedling.  A seedling one is probably going to need to be 6ft tall or more, somewhat cumbersome indoors

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ice cream bean questions
« on: February 18, 2024, 05:39:26 PM »
I am doubtful that bonsai culture will keep these fruiting at a reasonable size.  Mine didnt fruit until it had a 2.5in diam trunk.  It fills its container with 100% roots and even my root pruning it severely along with removing major limbs occasionally doesn't seem to slow its growth.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ice cream bean questions
« on: February 18, 2024, 02:47:33 PM »
I have one (Inga Edulis, supposedly) in a 20gal container in my greenhouse.  It has made a few pods already, and is about 4 years old.  Despite being in a container the tree wants to grow big fast and is extremely thirsty.  I don't think I will be able to keep it in the container long term and I will probably have to get rid of it in a year or two as I don't have room for the size it seems to want to reach.  Mine is pruned to about 7ft tall and the trunk is about 3 inches thick. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Planted My Olosapo
« on: February 18, 2024, 11:12:57 AM »
I love canistel.  Never tried olosapo but it sounds interesting.

 I have a seedling olosapo growing in a container for a few years now and it grows nicely most of the year then seemingly dies back a bunch for no obvious reason.  Overall growth is steady, though, it is 3-4 tall in a ~5gal now.  How long & how large before fruit can be expected?  I always read pouterias can take a long time to fruit from seed, but I have a seedling Ross sapote the same size as this olosapo that starting flowering last year. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Just a mini Rant about Youtube
« on: February 18, 2024, 11:09:51 AM »
These days old school internet forums like this one are pretty rare.  I am happy to have static text & photo information here and let youtube be youtube. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Sooty Mold, Bad Insects, and Treatments
« on: February 17, 2024, 07:27:58 PM »
Imidacloprid works great for some scale but not mealybugs for whatever reason.  Hort oil or soap spray works for a bit but it seems you can never exterminate them.  At least, not in my greenhouse.  Outdoors they are preyed upon and that keeps the populations small enough to control.

I use soil drench and sprayed imidacloprid.  It kills bees so don't use it anytime is is blooming or will soon.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Anyone growing out Mouriri?
« on: February 16, 2024, 10:26:20 PM »
I just got a few of these seeds, hoping some sprout soon.  I don't know much of anything about them, though. 

It matters. So the only nurseryís shipping grafted Green Sapote is in FL , where they use Mamey as rootstock. That wont work for CA . They are using Mamey because itís a good rootatock for south FL but wonít survive in CA. Here we need to use Green Sapote.

Since Lucuma is the most frost tolerant Pouteria we know of or have access to, no you canít graft it onto something for more frost tolerance.

Is the issue with mamey rootstock in CA just that it is less cold hardy than green sapote?  Or are there other issues with it?

I am now on my third grafted green sapote from Lara farms, they keep dying within 1yr for unknown reasons.  I have other grafted and seedling pouterias in similar conditions in my greenhouse that do just fine, not sure if its just a fluke with these.  Two dead ones isn't really enough of a sample size, but if the third one dies I am going to try another approach.   I am trying the Pomoho (sp?) cultivar instead of Whitman this time, though it matters for plant health

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: keitt mango taste
« on: February 15, 2024, 02:37:31 PM »
A lot of the mangoes for sale in US are grown in Mexico. 

I had a bunch of mediocre Keitts from the store over the years, but occasionally get a really good batch so they definitely have potential.  They seem to be more juicy than the other commonly available ones.

What is your bar for adequate fruit production?   I have a Geffner in a 20gal container, tree is 5ft tall, and it produced 3 fruit first crop and 4 fruit this year.  I expect it will increase as it grows.  I intend to keep it in this container and maintain it at 6-7ft tall.  I would think a 10x10 tree would be a great fit for personal use.

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