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Messages - David Kipps

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 Citrandarin (X-639) winter hardiness trial
« on: February 21, 2024, 09:00:47 AM »
(I'm in zone 7a, formerly 6b)  I'm not too worried about root grafting for several reasons:  1) I will eventually be grafting anything with some promise onto a full Poncirus rootstock anyway, to give it a better chance to stick around for future breeding & due to the process of making multiple copies.  2) Since I've heard that grafting higher onto Poncirus rootstock results in greater hardiness boost for the scion, than when done lower; I would assume that a graft union that is below ground level, still going through a portion of the scion's own root & crown, would gain very little hardiness boost.  3) My desire for early-on space saving & less weeding, outweighs an occasional root-grafting bias that disappears once I start grafting all selections.   
   A case in point:  Ten years ago, we had a colder winter that thoroughly killed my F1 Satsuma X Poncirus seedling, but fortunately I already had some grafts of it that survived with only partial die-back.  I have since started numerous F2 seedlings from its many fruits that are nearly seedless, including a few positive zygotics.   I'm looking forward to future generations from this tree that had a top that was much hardier than it's roots (since I can use a different, more hardy rootstock).  I'm glad that it didn't get culled out earlier (by nature) due to its less than hardy roots. 
    On a similar note:  I will baby a "runt" along until I can graft it, since I've noticed some of mine that do much better on the full Poncirus. 

Glauca x Poncirus doesn't exist to my knowledge. Only hybrid I know that is like that is Citrangeremo (citrange and glauca cross).
Is the Citrangeremo available in US ?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Leaf cuttings citrus propagation
« on: January 19, 2024, 10:41:49 PM »
I've heard that some chimeras can arise from the callous tissue at a graft union where there is a mixture of both kinds of cells.  I assume that this is without a preexisting bud, since it is the callous tissue.  Likewise, couldn't the callous tissue at the end of a leaf producing roots also spontaneously generate a shoot in rare cases?

Just a curiosity; does Glauca x Poncirus (or the reverse) exist?
I'd like to repeat the request, but ask concerning the availability in the US.  Does anyone have this hybrid that is willing to mail cuttings or seeds to Virginia?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Kumquats seedlings dying
« on: November 19, 2023, 07:06:34 AM »
Simply the size of pot wouldn't be doing that by itself.  I suspect damping off type fungal infection starting at soil surface level.  Check for browning of stem color right at soil surface (or slightly below/above) occurring first before rest of plant.  I've lost many that way.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Seed development after picking
« on: November 16, 2023, 08:15:04 AM »
So if I pick just as starting to yellow,  the seeds will continue to improve in viability if I wait to cut them open ?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Seed development after picking
« on: November 15, 2023, 06:33:36 PM »
Will seeds within a slightly immature fruit continue to improve viability after the fruit is picked?  I usually hear that citrus fruit do not continue to ripen after picking (But I have heard a few disagreements to this.).  What about seeds?  Due to freezes, my borderline hardy citrus need to be picked before totally ripe (or even fall off).  I am primarily interested in the seeds for producing a next generation.  Will letting these green/halfgreen fruit sit on the counter for a week or two help the seeds to become more viable, or should I just cut them and extract the seeds right away and plant right away?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: grafting kumquats to incompatible rootstock
« on: September 07, 2023, 08:12:44 AM »
What is the advantage of having the sour orange underneath as a rootstock, instead of just using the Poncirus as the rootstock?

Larger sizes are easier on the eyes and fingers, but tiny can work.  I know they are larger seeds, but some people graft chestnuts onto barely germinating nuts ("nut-grafting").

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Does my citrus have greening/HLB
« on: August 26, 2023, 06:50:51 AM »
By USDA law every tree must be propagated and then remained until sold inside a USDA insect free approved screen house.  This screen house is inspected frequently. Therefor,  you can be assured that your tree did not get HLB while in Florida.
Millet, does that USDA law only apply to nurseries in the quarantined states?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: August 18, 2023, 11:31:17 PM »
Am curious on your F2s that have fruited: What ratio of peeling surfaces are completely smooth and shiny, versus, slightly fuzzy inherited from the poncirus?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: July 11, 2023, 02:46:44 PM »
Kumin:  Are you now assuming F1 clone, as opposed to F2 zygotic?
How are these fruits comparing in size to pure Poncirus of same age?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: USDA says silicon helps citrus
« on: May 26, 2023, 07:14:10 AM »
I have not understood how silica (like what composes a chemist's inert glass flask) can also be bioavailable such that plants like horsetail incorporate it in their tissues.

Bussone,  Where did you get your Citrangeremo ?  Was it healthy except for the cold challenge ?

How high was your "high grafting" ?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Winter damage, Yuma citrange F2
« on: April 18, 2023, 10:20:09 AM »
Till, Mikkel, and Florian:  You each mention concluding an identity of citrumelo based on appearances.  I don't feel experienced enough to make that judgement, especially before getting fruit.  What difference in foliage and branches do you see between a citrumelo versus a citrange?  I really haven't worried much about mistaken identities on my sources since I'm only interested in the diverse outcomes possible in the F2 generation, rather than the uniform true F1 generation.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Winter damage, Yuma citrange F2
« on: April 17, 2023, 09:38:25 PM »
Till,  Thanks for your description of the fruits.  That is interesting and I will save it for doing some comparisons, hopefully.  I have never seen or had any of the fruits, because my trees are seedlings from bought seed.  For several years (8+ years ago) I bought seed by the quart from "Willits & Newcomb, Inc." in California.  (I think it is new ownership and name now.) They produced seed for nurseries to use to grow rootstocks.  The nurseries would keep only the uniform seedlings to graft commercial citrus onto, while weeding out any deviants.  Opposite of this, my goal was to keep the deviants, hoping for the zygotic genetic recombinations, and let the nucellar clones die out in my zone 7 winters, along with any non-hardy recombinations.   The last (and largest) batch of seed I bought were originally said to be Sacaton Citrumelo, but later they said they were Yuma Citrange.  So I am not 100% sure which they were and am for now just assuming their last designation is the correct one.  From what I have read, the Yuma does have a significant percentage of zygotic seed, and I have gotten a fair number of diverse plants from them (of course the vast majority of the thousands of seedlings have long since frozen to death, or were choked out by weeds).  Last summer was the first any of these bloomed (just a few late blooms with too little time left to mature).   Maybe this year I will get a fruit or two.  I was quite disappointed that some of my largest trees died this winter/spring after doing so well the past several years.  I am theorizing that their root system was not hardy enough, because the above ground trees looked good until they discolored late.  Fortunately I had grafted some of them onto P. trifoliata elsewhere, and those survived well.  So I think it was a root hardiness issue.  If you come up with promising individuals, be sure to graft them onto something hardier for insurance.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Winter damage, Yuma citrange F2
« on: April 17, 2023, 02:29:55 PM »

Cold Hardy Citrus / Winter damage, Yuma citrange F2
« on: April 17, 2023, 02:24:37 PM »
The previous winter, these trees all survived with gradual leaf loss toward totality by spring.  This past winter went different.  The Christmas cold and wind burnt the edges of the leaves, but did not kill them, leaving many of them to still be alive and green till now.  Even after a couple of weeks passed, it looked like there would be near 100% tree survival, but sometime in March I realized that quite a number were dying.  So I've ended up with some being nearly evergreen and others dead and others in-between.  In the picture, the whiteish dead twigs at the top were late tender growth that was killed as expected at the beginning of winter (which happens anyway, any year, even on P. trifoliata).  The more golden dead twigs (one with orange ribbon) are from the disappointing late winter kill off of trees that had survived the last several winters.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Sumo seedling
« on: April 14, 2023, 06:53:11 AM »
Brian is exactly correct.  Flying Dragon as a cultivar always has zigzag stems and strongly curved thorns, it is an easy way without a DNA test of selecting predominantly true clonal Flying Dragon seedlings.  Discard those witch are obviously and definitely genetically different.  The more or less straight steamed & straight throne are not Flying Dragon.  One more comment about Flying Dragon. Trees growing on Flying Dragon root stock produce higher quality fruit because it is a slower garroting rootstock.
Could you explain what "slower garroting rootstock" means?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Sumo seedling
« on: April 13, 2023, 09:08:11 PM »
ok, so I did plant hundreds of my Flying Dragon seeds. So if I see the poly seeds germinate, then they are not the zygotic (parent clones)? These poly seedlings would be the cross pollinated seeds and can be a hybrid seedling correct?
The poly seeds have mostly clones, not zygotic, and not cross pollinated, and not hybrid seedlings.  The mono seeds have the greater chance of being hybrids from cross pollination or some recombination if self pollenated.  But as with a lot of biological systems, it's a matter of probability, not 100% black or white.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Sumo seedling
« on: April 13, 2023, 06:35:56 PM »
David, what significance is there if one seedling had some variation from the group?
We often assume that monoembryonic seed are zygotic, but seeing variation helps to confirm that.  If you're doing breeding, that is what you want.  If you want a copy of the mother tree, you would prefer nucellar seedlings, which would be clones and rather uniform.  One seed producing four seedlings will have at least 3 clones, and likely all 4 will be.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Sumo seedling
« on: April 13, 2023, 09:25:56 AM »
I have yet to find a single seed in my shiramui/sumo/dekopan fruits.  You are lucky

I bought probably 50+ without success, and then had a run of 1-2 seeds, culminating in one fruit with 12 seeds! More seeds in off-brand dekopon than AC Foods' Sumo Citrus, not sure if because of selection pressure in their budline, or different citricultural practices resulting in cross-pollination. All my germinating dekopon seeds seem to be monoembryonic.
  Are they large enough to see if any variation among them?

Thanks, it looks like soil by itself is not the problem.  I've sprouted and grown from seed in the same soil that I use for other citrus (which do well).  They start out looking good, but just don't make much growth. Then stand still and start dying before I think I have enough to cut off as scions to try grafting onto something more vigorous.  I think I need to graft them quicker in hopes of getting some push from the rootstock.  They are such tiny things, including the leaves, that I can hardly see healthy or not.  What I am really after is to eventually cross it with P. trifoliata for enough hardiness to do inground crossing and selecting here in central Virginia.  If you know how I can get ahold of that specific cross already made, let me know.  I already have 'Razzlequat', a supposed hybrid with something else, but it doesn't have enough cold hardiness, plus I haven't been assured that it is for certain a progeny of glauca (leaf shape would indicate so, but that probably could be arrived at independently).

Being a desert plant, does Erimocitrus require more alkaline soil?  I've had terrible success with it.

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