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Messages - brian

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Abiu finally producing
« on: Today at 05:51:54 PM »
My seedling abiu has thousands of flower buds again.  Maybe this year it will actually set some fruits

Citrus General Discussion / Re: compact lemon options
« on: Today at 05:45:45 PM »
Four years later, I have my compact lemon.  I did two cleft grafts and a t-bud of Lisbon lemon on Flying Dragon rootstock and they all took.  I had put the tree in a corner and forgotten about it since Fall and today I noticed it has a couple lemons on it, one nearly ripe.  I think I gave away the parent Lisbon (from FourWinds, unknown rootstock) to my neighbor over the summer when I saw the grafts took on the replacement. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruits in American samoa
« on: February 23, 2024, 03:27:02 PM »
Are you allowed to bring plant material back?  I know Hawaii and Puerto Rico have strict inspection and rules that the lower 48 states don't.  It isn't like driving across state lines.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia Cross Species Grafting
« on: February 23, 2024, 03:19:40 PM »
I have had two or three "crops" but each was only 1-3 fruits.  They were a bit smaller than the ones in your photo. 

I only have one regular COTRG and two orange COTRG.  They are all flowering about now and I have been trying to touch all the flowers on both types to aid pollination but they aren't exactly on the same schedule it is hard to say how effective it is.

If the red ends up being as good as the orange was that is fantastic! 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia Cross Species Grafting
« on: February 23, 2024, 01:27:46 PM »
I've only gotten a few fruits from each but the orange ones were excellent and the red ones very bland.  Might be luck of the draw with seedling genetics.   I actually have two orange COTRGs and when the second one fruits I'll have a better sample size. 

Yeah most of the pre-germinated seeds I got last month are already putting out leaves.  Nice stuff

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« on: February 23, 2024, 12:07:13 PM »
Amazing. I heard people say a good cherimoya is one of the best fruits around.  If you guys are saying a good white sapote beats it that is quite a statement.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia Cross Species Grafting
« on: February 23, 2024, 12:05:33 PM »
I hope you have success on the subsequent tries!

I have a decent size COTRG now that I will probably trash because the orange type is so much better.  I am just giving it a few more crops to be certain.  If I can use it as a multi-eugenia rootstock it might be worth keeping around for that. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Two one gallon pawpaws have shipped . . .
« on: February 23, 2024, 12:03:43 PM »
I ordered some pawpaws (seedling) from there also, and they said they won't be shipping to me until April!  I guess its warmer where you are :)

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia Cross Species Grafting
« on: February 22, 2024, 10:54:22 PM »
Any idea what the success rate of grafting self-type is?  Like regular COTRG onto itself.  Maybe eugenias have low take rate?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jackfruit grafting
« on: February 22, 2024, 10:30:57 PM »
I had a pedalai in my greenhouse and ripped it out when I realized how big they get.  Kwai muk and cempedek seem like the most viable ones for containers.  I have a marang but it looks like it is going to get massive and I will probably have to rip it out too before it fruits but I have hope.  My greenhouse ceiling is about 11ft up, so thst is the limit.  I think Ben mentioned in another thread that marang is tip bearing also which isnt good for a tree that requires aggressive pruning.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia Cross Species Grafting
« on: February 22, 2024, 06:20:47 PM »
That's a shame.  They look so similar, too.  With all the new eugenias floating aroud now it would be nice to have a cocktail tree rather than a million individual plants. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jackfruit grafting
« on: February 22, 2024, 03:41:30 PM »
I have most of the artocarpus you listed, SplorKeLZ, but I assumed they were not graft compatible so I never even considered it.  I have never grafted jackfruit anyway so I don't know what my success rate would be with jackfruit-on-jackfruit but I could try some of the other grafts at some point.  Some of these have really different growth habits I suspect it would not work out well.  For example, pedalai leaves are like 100x the area/size of kwai muk leaves

Where can you get scion for all these varieties you mentioned??  I have only ever found seeds & seedlings
ahh, that is the question

Yeah these are not as available as you might hope.  You can find marang, cempedek, kwai muk, pedalai seedlings occasionally but I've never seen even a seedling keledang or lakoocha for sale in mainland US, much less mature scion or cloned trees. 

I mean, if you do find them let us know :)

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jackfruit grafting
« on: February 22, 2024, 02:25:07 PM »
Where can you get scion for all these varieties you mentioned??  I have only ever found seeds & seedlings

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: marcotting vs rooting question
« on: February 22, 2024, 12:32:34 PM »
Thank you for the responses.  When I did the marcott on my inga I wasn't thinking about the stripped wood still being alive and useful, so I wasn't paying attention to how well the peat bag was covering it, only focusing on the child side of the girdled patch.  I am now thinking it is imperative that the whole stripped wood area is covered by the peat bag to keep it from drying out and cutting off the flow of water up from the parent tree to the child.  I went to check on my work and it looks like I do have the wood completely covered, and the branch has not wilted. 

this is what I was worried about:

I also found an article segment specifically about air-layer versus cuttings for Inga.  It says 100% success with airlayer, 55% success with cuttings *that still have all their leaves*, and 0% success with cuttings that had their leaves removed.  Very interesting.  Also, it mentions rooting hormone is beneficial here, something I had also included in my effort.

New Forests1   5:3751, 1998
Vegetative propagation of Inga feuillei from shootcuttings and air layering
Compound leaves were either reduced in area or removed entirely before auxin pretreatmentwith 0, 0.3, or 0.8% indolebutyric acid (IBA) followed by sticking under mist or in a poly-ethylene enclosure.
Leafless cuttings did not root regardless of moisture management system  or auxin pretreatment, whereas 55% rooting of leafy cuttings was observed.
Leafy cuttings rooted significantly better under mist than in a polyethylene enclosure.
Auxin treatment at thehigher level increased rooting percentage approximately two fold for larger diameter cuttings(8.1 to 20 mm), but  had no effect on the smaller  cuttings  (2 to 8 mm), and resulted in anapproximately three fold increase in the number of roots/rooted cutting for both stem diameterclasses.
Auxin treatment did not affect rooting percentage of leafy softwood cuttings underfog, however it did increase the number of roots per rooted cutting.
One hundred percent of airlayered shoots rooted within 5 weeks with or without auxin pretreatment, and all rooted layerssurvived transplanting to soil.
Possible implications of this research on agroforestry, selection,genetic improvement, and conservation are discussed.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« on: February 21, 2024, 07:01:02 PM »
Brian, you must have picked them to late. I know if they are over ripe, it isn't good at all, I can't eat it. You should cut/eat it when it is full size, squeeze it and if it gives, pick it and try it, you will like it.

I only had a few bad tasting fruits, and it was because they were over ripe.

I assumed that was the case, but then I picked a bunch of them still quite hard and let them counter ripen to various degrees, and they all had this same off taste.  Again... it might just be a bad crop, or just me. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / marcotting vs rooting question
« on: February 21, 2024, 06:31:21 PM »
I had never attempted air-layering / marcotting before, but I have done cleft grafting and rooting many times.  I was reading about marcotting and watching some videos and it seems odd to me that the leaves on the selected branch are left on.  I always remove all or nearly all leaves when rooting of grafting to keep them from drying out. 

After the bark (w/ phloem) is removed, isn't marcotting functionally the same as rooting?  Or is the wood (xylem) still transporting water into the branch and is this the reason marcotting is superior to cutting the limb off entirely and rooting it? 

I just attempted this on my ice cream bean tree and I must admit I feel like the girdled branch is going to just wilt completely by tomorrow because these things are so thirsty.  I can't imagine it is uptaking any significant amount of moisture from the peat bag/wrapping.

Sorry if this seems like such a basic question but I found a million guides on grafting but none went into any detail about *why* it is done this way.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« on: February 21, 2024, 05:27:44 PM »
Which variety of black sapote did you get a grafted tree of, brian?

I got a Bernicker.  I didn't know anything about the varieties so I just picked one

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ice cream bean questions
« on: February 21, 2024, 02:50:51 PM »
I have had one in Central Florida 9b/10a for about 8 years or so. Its roughly 18 feet tall and would be that spread if I didnt cut it back every few years. I have never had any fruit/pods from it. No clue why, it gets plenty of irrigation and hasnt frozen back in a few years.

Does it even flower?  Mine flowered for a year or two before setting and pods for the first time last year.  I dunno if it was pollination or maturity

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ice cream bean questions
« on: February 21, 2024, 12:58:53 PM »
There's a nursery in LA that had air layers at least a year old (probably two based on the span of the lateral branches, these had been sitting there a while) that were fruiting in five gallon pots in December, like eight or nine pods on a four-foot tree. I picked up two and one is still in the five gallon pot, one just got planted, both are putting on a new round of flowers.  Probably depends on the tree. I can take pictures tomorrow of the one I just planted. EDIT: I'm trying to remember which freaking nursery, it was south of Compton.

That's really interesting... I should try marcotting a new child off my seedling tree and replace the parent with it to see if I can have a smaller one.  Even if the child ends up growing just as big as the parent if it fruits much sooner it could be a perpetual replacement every few years while still getting fruit.   

Maybe that will give me something to do while I wait for spring :)

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« on: February 20, 2024, 10:07:05 PM »
Well now I want a new white sapote.  I just got a grafted black sapote, too.  I want to see how much better it is than my seedling one.

They're the most creamy (best) when allowed to become very ripe.

Yup, I let my canistel ripen until they can't hold their own weight anymore and start to become flat on the bottom and when cut open the flesh closest to the seed is just starting to become translucent. Then they must be eaten immediately or they'll be totally rotten by the next day.

I started some Ross Sapote seeds last year.  I don't think I cracked them, I can't remember.  If I did the usual way I do it is to get vice grip pliars and squeeze them until they start to crack but not totally opening the shell.  The idea is just to get water to penetrate easily and allow them to crack themselves open more easily.  I don't think it is absolutely necessary.  If you are handy with power tools you could try using a grinder, sander, cutting wheel, etc. to cut into the hard shell a bit instead of trying to crack it with compression.

I didn't get great germination rate on the seeds, I think of the 10 or so I started I ended up with only two healthy seedlings.  About half rotted before sprouting and many of the ones that sprouted died off before growing much. 

I have an older seedling that started flowing at 4 years old, while still fairly small.  I have a thead with pictures here: .  This was last year, no fruit set yet but hoping it will this year.  My canistel set flowers and no fruit for a year or so, but now it sets a ton of fruit. 

I *believe* the seedling fruit is supposed to be quite close to the parent, but with some minor variance. Ross Sapote seems to be commonly grown from seed but I have also seen it for sale grafted.  I have never actually tried the fruit but I am looking forward to it.  I actually bought a grafted one when I was getting impatient with the seedling, but then the seedling started flowering and the grafted one is still tiny.  I guess if I get the opportunity I will compare the seedling to the grafted one and see.  I'm not sure if there is a lineage back to some "original Ross" or if grafted ones are just scion from a random mature seedling. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Red Wax Jambu
« on: February 20, 2024, 04:09:46 PM »
Looks nice and healthy.  Is it grafted?  I heard they take a long time from seed

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« on: February 20, 2024, 11:13:35 AM »
I see alot of gardeners selling it for $2/lb so I don't know if would dedicated a space for it when it's so cheap.

I don't think SplorKeLZ will be finding many local sellers for $2/lb in Seattle :)    Unless it is making it up from CA.    I have never seen white or black sapote in any market in area, even stores that have exotic fruit sections. 

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