Author Topic: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest  (Read 2078 times)

agroventuresperu

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Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« on: March 05, 2022, 09:08:55 PM »
Can't figure out how to embed youtube videos on here, so here's the link:
https://youtu.be/dJu5uIkiJqA

zands

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2022, 01:05:24 AM »
You have planted 1000 mango trees? You gotta mow your grass during the wet season to keep track of the fruit trees you have planted. Even if you do this only 2-3 times per year. Then you will have a better mind's eye image of your progress. Buy a used riding mower?

When your trees grow large, then mow once a year.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2022, 01:07:14 AM by zands »

Finca La Isla

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2022, 08:00:53 AM »
Just looked at your video.
Congratulations on your first mocambo fruits!  The first fruits to produce from trees that we planted were limes.
I look at a lot of farms.  I think that there could be too much competition from the aggressive grasses and other weeeds.  Have you experimented with mulching with cardboard or even a material like geo-textile?
Are you positive that it is rats that are killing your palms?  There is a common problem of a large beetle that tunnels into the palm heart.  If so it is way easier to control than rodents.
How about quick crops like pineapples, bananas, root crops, etc. as intercrops?
I have a lot of doubts about eventually introducing animals to control weeds.  Maybe sheep.
Early cash producing crops for us that worked best are dioscorea roots and black pepper.
Saludos
Peter

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2022, 09:44:42 AM »
I watched your video of the well problem. Sorry to hear about it and it looks like you are now on your own and will be unlikely to get satisfaction otherwise. I've got some experience with pumps, piping and water, 40 years as an engineer working on ships and many wells . I saw the leak in the union fitting which was cross-threaded. To pull the pump you will have to disconnect the union fitting then use the rope to lift the pump. The electrical tripping problem could have several reasons. I need to have some information about your system but would be happy to give advice. Please send me a PM and we can discuss it.

agroventuresperu

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2022, 02:39:28 PM »
Just looked at your video.
Congratulations on your first mocambo fruits!  The first fruits to produce from trees that we planted were limes.
I look at a lot of farms.  I think that there could be too much competition from the aggressive grasses and other weeeds.  Have you experimented with mulching with cardboard or even a material like geo-textile?
Are you positive that it is rats that are killing your palms?  There is a common problem of a large beetle that tunnels into the palm heart.  If so it is way easier to control than rodents.
How about quick crops like pineapples, bananas, root crops, etc. as intercrops?
I have a lot of doubts about eventually introducing animals to control weeds.  Maybe sheep.
Early cash producing crops for us that worked best are dioscorea roots and black pepper.
Saludos
Peter

Black pepper? How did you find a market for that? I'm amazed you were able to pull that off.

I'm pretty sure rodents are the main problem with the palms. There are lots of field mice, big rats, and agoutis around here. Must not be enough snakes, since people indiscriminately kill them on sight. You know, every snake is a poisonous one. There could be beetles that get them too, as I have seen some that looked rotted out. Most of the ones I have examined were chewed on. A few months after we planted, some of our neighbors showed us some relatively big poopers on one part of the property and suggested they were getting eaten by Dinomys branickii.

We have a lot of bananas here, but I never show them in any of the videos. We're planning to get a lot more soon, so we can use them as chicken feed instead of buying corn in the future. That will be intercropped within the rows of trees on the part of the video where I showed the excessively humid slope. Going to plant in the dry season. We did some intercropping by seed along with the original planting, but it was mostly cover/crop type stuff. If you actually want to intercrop with herbaceous plants it involves a ton of maintenance work, since non-woody stuff has a tough time competing with the cattle grasses. We've found that leaving chickens and ducks in one area long enough can successfully get rid of the grass and leave the ground open for changing the plant regime. On some of the more humid areas, there is a lot of Taro that has naturalized. They call it Vituca here. I had never eaten it before, but I would say they taste a little better than potatoes. Wherever the Brachiaria can't grow is a great place for that. I've thought about doing coffee too, since that is an easy, readily-available market. The harvest season here is at the tail end of the rainy season, so it would be worthwhile to see if there are any varieties that would fruit instead at the opposite time of year in order to serve the market when prices are higher.

We do a lot of maintenance, but it's not always the reason. The area with the best weed growth has also been the area with the best tree growth. The first year we did 3 times a year, but now I'm really trying to limit to only two times per year, since it's costly. It would be better to do it four times a year, just to generate more biomass and feed the soil more, since the grass grows quickest the first two months after being cut and then the growth rate really starts to plateau. I think there is also some Syntropic agriculture synergy with the phytohormones when you cut all the weeds down, which affects stimulates the trees as well. We always have to carefully do machete circles around each tree before weed-wacking in order to reveal some of the small specimens and not hit them with the weedwacker. The main grass we have is Brachiaria decumbens, which gets very "matted" if you let it go for some time. From the house, we throw a lot of avocado seeds out in the yard, and we have tons of them just poking through the grass all over the place. Have you heard of Mark Shepard? I guess we're basically doing his style of farming, but in the tropics.

One thing I would like is a larger variety of herbaceous weeds, so there's better habitat for beneficial insects.


agroventuresperu

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2022, 02:45:38 PM »
I watched your video of the well problem. Sorry to hear about it and it looks like you are now on your own and will be unlikely to get satisfaction otherwise. I've got some experience with pumps, piping and water, 40 years as an engineer working on ships and many wells . I saw the leak in the union fitting which was cross-threaded. To pull the pump you will have to disconnect the union fitting then use the rope to lift the pump. The electrical tripping problem could have several reasons. I need to have some information about your system but would be happy to give advice. Please send me a PM and we can discuss it.

I responded to you by PM

Finca La Isla

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2022, 11:17:58 PM »
Black Pepper
Today in our farmers market I sold safou and kepel quite successfully.  I love introducing new fruits.  I’ve created great demand for salak which was introduced to CR by us.
At least with black pepper, if you can get it very dry, and we’ll wrapped up, it can keep indefinitely.  Originally I sold it to restaurants with knowledgable chefs.  Taking limes around to bars, talking to chefs.  Selling root crops and leaving samples of pepper….I’ve been at this for more than 30 years.
Suerte y saludos
Peter

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2022, 01:30:23 AM »
Everything looks really weird to me. Not how I used to see other tropical places. Totally different weeds.

What is your elevation? Do cherimoyas fruit for other people around you? I wonder if you are high enough? Coconut and cherimoya are generally not the same climate fruit, with few rare overlapping exceptions. You have them both.

I think there is little commercial potential with your planting selection. Mangoes unlikely to fruit well judging by climate alone and your soil description. Amazon tree grape is very low commercial value. No idea of Inga bean value, never seen them in Peru. . Avocados are probably only exception given right varieties.  Assuming ideal scenario, and everything grows to  a size they are suppose to, I think just about everything is planted too close. It's likely to become problematic in 5 years.  Just my 2 cents observation.

I'm big proponent of marang. I think should be planted everywhere in tropics. One of the best fruits in the world, will always have good commercial value once people get to know it in a new place. Big, very beautiful low spreading tree (with proper pruning ). Easy to collect large fruits. 3-4 years from seed. Falling leaves automatically create mulch and prevent weeds. No need to cut grass around the tree once it's big enough. You should definitely introduce some and see how they do in your place. Despite thriving in lowland tropics, I have seen them growing well as high as 1300 meters elevation.

I would try to introduce sheep instead of cows. Cows eat mango leaves and other fruit tree leaves. Sheep unlikely to do so and reach high enough. Also they are lighter animals, hooves will not make such impact in the soil as cows. Thus preventing erosion.

DurianLover

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2022, 02:19:27 AM »
  I’ve created great demand for salak which was introduced to CR by us.
Peter

I saw salak in European supermarket recently. Country with zero Asian population. Probably 99.999% of store visitors don't know what it is  ;D ;D.  21 euros a kilo. Mangosteen was 17 euros a kilo.  Whole cacao pods 16 euros each.

agroventuresperu

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2022, 09:28:50 AM »
Black Pepper
Today in our farmers market I sold safou and kepel quite successfully.  I love introducing new fruits.  I’ve created great demand for salak which was introduced to CR by us.
At least with black pepper, if you can get it very dry, and we’ll wrapped up, it can keep indefinitely.  Originally I sold it to restaurants with knowledgable chefs.  Taking limes around to bars, talking to chefs.  Selling root crops and leaving samples of pepper….I’ve been at this for more than 30 years.
Suerte y saludos
Peter

Salak? Do you mean Salacca wallichiana? I wanted to grow that here, and bought seeds for it, but none were viable. I like growing palms. I've started to collect seeds onsite of the walking palm, Socratea exorrhiza, to plant near our house. At least that's what I think they are. It looks like we have at least a couple different species of Socratea on the property.

agroventuresperu

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2022, 10:45:55 AM »
Everything looks really weird to me. Not how I used to see other tropical places. Totally different weeds.

What is your elevation? Do cherimoyas fruit for other people around you? I wonder if you are high enough? Coconut and cherimoya are generally not the same climate fruit, with few rare overlapping exceptions. You have them both.

I think there is little commercial potential with your planting selection. Mangoes unlikely to fruit well judging by climate alone and your soil description. Amazon tree grape is very low commercial value. No idea of Inga bean value, never seen them in Peru. . Avocados are probably only exception given right varieties.  Assuming ideal scenario, and everything grows to  a size they are suppose to, I think just about everything is planted too close. It's likely to become problematic in 5 years.  Just my 2 cents observation.

I'm big proponent of marang. I think should be planted everywhere in tropics. One of the best fruits in the world, will always have good commercial value once people get to know it in a new place. Big, very beautiful low spreading tree (with proper pruning ). Easy to collect large fruits. 3-4 years from seed. Falling leaves automatically create mulch and prevent weeds. No need to cut grass around the tree once it's big enough. You should definitely introduce some and see how they do in your place. Despite thriving in lowland tropics, I have seen them growing well as high as 1300 meters elevation.

I would try to introduce sheep instead of cows. Cows eat mango leaves and other fruit tree leaves. Sheep unlikely to do so and reach high enough. Also they are lighter animals, hooves will not make such impact in the soil as cows. Thus preventing erosion.

There's been some debate whether or not those are actually "cherimoyas." I'm no expert. Others on here could analyze better.

We're at about 950m elevation. Yes, everything is "too close" from a traditional farming perspective. Half of what we planted is support species, so double the distance. Most of what we planted is seed-grown. Subtract what succumbs to disease, predation, etc. and the specimens that don't produce quality fruit, then you'll end up with a lot more distance. Also, for the overall health of the systsem, in general it's better to overplant. This ecosytem wants to be a forest, so it needs woody material to feed the fungal soils. Our original soil tests showed this place to be pretty low in SOM.

Let's see what else? Mangoes. There are a lot of mango trees nearby that fruit well. Inga fruit is very commercial here, but also not really worth the effort in our situation.

If my original goal was to turn a quick profit from this place, I would've alleycropped the entire property with proven timber species and grafted fruit trees intercropped with coffee and left ten meter wide alleys in between the rows of trees to raise beef cattle to slaughter. Although I'm not convinced grafted is the way to go. There really aren't many successful examples locally. Most successful fruit trees people have are seedlings like Avocados and Caimito. The vast majority of everyone grows coffee for money. It's an endeavor that is lucrative to most because they go up in the national forest, clearcut tracts of land, and burn everything off. They get the nice virgin soil, exploit it for a few years and then move on.

The original goal of our place was more a dream-land place for personal use. Highly experimental, since we didn't know what would be successful. Turns out it's a lot of the stuff I had never heard of before. We planted about 40 species of tree, what makes you so confident to paint with a broad brush and say that none other than avocados will have much commercial potential? Lots of the specimens out here would beg to differ.

I'm not motivated to sell fresh fruit given our location and access. The only sensical thing is to produce value-added products like dried fruits, fermented products, medicinal plant-based supplements, and animals. We plan to start guinea pigs soon, because there is already a lot of Elephant grass and other fodder trees growing on site that could provide 90+ percent of their diet. Sounds very low-overhead to me.

Originally I wanted to raise sheep out here, but that's not practical. Tropical sheep breeds do tend to stand on their hind legs to eat trees, which can rival the 2m browse line of cattle, and I've also been told they are more likely to de-bark trees than cows. Brachiaria spp. are toxic to sheep and will kill them, if they are the majority of their diet. That is the vast majority of grass that we have out on pasture. Also, there is no local market for sheep meat. I'm curious why you and Finca are not fans of the idea of raising cows in this situation. Do you have experience raising cattle? It's not something I plan to do right away. Need to keep an eye on the trees to see if they would be big enough to handle the impact. We've got a ways to go still.

Do you have a scientific name for Marang? I appreciate the suggestion. Any idea if it's available in Peru?

Here's a farming approach that might seem crazy to you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RePJ3rJa1Wg

ben mango

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2022, 10:50:58 AM »
Everything looks really weird to me. Not how I used to see other tropical places. Totally different weeds.

What is your elevation? Do cherimoyas fruit for other people around you? I wonder if you are high enough? Coconut and cherimoya are generally not the same climate fruit, with few rare overlapping exceptions. You have them both.

I think there is little commercial potential with your planting selection. Mangoes unlikely to fruit well judging by climate alone and your soil description. Amazon tree grape is very low commercial value. No idea of Inga bean value, never seen them in Peru. . Avocados are probably only exception given right varieties.  Assuming ideal scenario, and everything grows to  a size they are suppose to, I think just about everything is planted too close. It's likely to become problematic in 5 years.  Just my 2 cents observation.

I'm big proponent of marang. I think should be planted everywhere in tropics. One of the best fruits in the world, will always have good commercial value once people get to know it in a new place. Big, very beautiful low spreading tree (with proper pruning ). Easy to collect large fruits. 3-4 years from seed. Falling leaves automatically create mulch and prevent weeds. No need to cut grass around the tree once it's big enough. You should definitely introduce some and see how they do in your place. Despite thriving in lowland tropics, I have seen them growing well as high as 1300 meters elevation.

I would try to introduce sheep instead of cows. Cows eat mango leaves and other fruit tree leaves. Sheep unlikely to do so and reach high enough. Also they are lighter animals, hooves will not make such impact in the soil as cows. Thus preventing erosion.

This is why travelling to or at least visiting some other tropical fruit farms is so important to do before attempting something like this because it’s simply a matter of him not knowing what he’s missing out on if he’s never eaten fruits like durian, marang, cempedak, mangosteen, salak etc etc. imo he would have been far better off planting 1,000 marang or mangosteen than mangoes, which as you mentioned likely won’t produce well in that climate.

agroventuresperu

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2022, 11:29:58 AM »
good luck finding any of that stuff you mentioned in Peru. We planted 40 different species of fruit trees, and I'm sure you've tried all forty of them. Maybe you're missing out on something?

Lots of fruiting mangos in our area. Durian? Tastes similar to a Sweetsop, which we planted. At least sweetsop doesn't smell like garbage though.

It's not too late though. Put your money where your mouth is. Bring me those plants or seeds and I will pay your for them cash in hand.
Most of those plants you mentioned I would plant if I could find them. I think you take things for granted wherever you are with your network of tropical fruit enthusiasts. We had to jump through a million hoops just to import Macadamia seeds here, which was not nearly worthwhile.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2022, 11:40:52 AM by agroventuresperu »

ben mango

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2022, 12:17:44 PM »
Durian tastes nothin like a sugar apple. A theobroma bicolor does somewhat resemble a bland durian though.

agroventuresperu

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2022, 12:22:01 PM »
It did when I tasted it.

agroventuresperu

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2022, 12:24:42 PM »
Everything looks really weird to me. Not how I used to see other tropical places. Totally different weeds.

What is your elevation? Do cherimoyas fruit for other people around you? I wonder if you are high enough? Coconut and cherimoya are generally not the same climate fruit, with few rare overlapping exceptions. You have them both.

I think there is little commercial potential with your planting selection. Mangoes unlikely to fruit well judging by climate alone and your soil description. Amazon tree grape is very low commercial value. No idea of Inga bean value, never seen them in Peru. . Avocados are probably only exception given right varieties.  Assuming ideal scenario, and everything grows to  a size they are suppose to, I think just about everything is planted too close. It's likely to become problematic in 5 years.  Just my 2 cents observation.

I'm big proponent of marang. I think should be planted everywhere in tropics. One of the best fruits in the world, will always have good commercial value once people get to know it in a new place. Big, very beautiful low spreading tree (with proper pruning ). Easy to collect large fruits. 3-4 years from seed. Falling leaves automatically create mulch and prevent weeds. No need to cut grass around the tree once it's big enough. You should definitely introduce some and see how they do in your place. Despite thriving in lowland tropics, I have seen them growing well as high as 1300 meters elevation.

I would try to introduce sheep instead of cows. Cows eat mango leaves and other fruit tree leaves. Sheep unlikely to do so and reach high enough. Also they are lighter animals, hooves will not make such impact in the soil as cows. Thus preventing erosion.

This is why travelling to or at least visiting some other tropical fruit farms is so important to do before attempting something like this because it’s simply a matter of him not knowing what he’s missing out on if he’s never eaten fruits like durian, marang, cempedak, mangosteen, salak etc etc. imo he would have been far better off planting 1,000 marang or mangosteen than mangoes, which as you mentioned likely won’t produce well in that climate.

We're mentioning a lot of Asian fruits. What fruits do you recommend from the Americas?

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2022, 12:34:34 PM »
thanks for the video.

At that altitude here in DR coconuts start not doing very well just like that...citrus and some subtropicals should do well there.

ben mango

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2022, 12:38:33 PM »
Peter would know. I tend to prefer Asian fruits in general. Best of luck on your project.

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2022, 02:33:02 PM »
Everything looks really weird to me. Not how I used to see other tropical places. Totally different weeds.

What is your elevation? Do cherimoyas fruit for other people around you? I wonder if you are high enough? Coconut and cherimoya are generally not the same climate fruit, with few rare overlapping exceptions. You have them both.

I think there is little commercial potential with your planting selection. Mangoes unlikely to fruit well judging by climate alone and your soil description. Amazon tree grape is very low commercial value. No idea of Inga bean value, never seen them in Peru. . Avocados are probably only exception given right varieties.  Assuming ideal scenario, and everything grows to  a size they are suppose to, I think just about everything is planted too close. It's likely to become problematic in 5 years.  Just my 2 cents observation.

I'm big proponent of marang. I think should be planted everywhere in tropics. One of the best fruits in the world, will always have good commercial value once people get to know it in a new place. Big, very beautiful low spreading tree (with proper pruning ). Easy to collect large fruits. 3-4 years from seed. Falling leaves automatically create mulch and prevent weeds. No need to cut grass around the tree once it's big enough. You should definitely introduce some and see how they do in your place. Despite thriving in lowland tropics, I have seen them growing well as high as 1300 meters elevation.

I would try to introduce sheep instead of cows. Cows eat mango leaves and other fruit tree leaves. Sheep unlikely to do so and reach high enough. Also they are lighter animals, hooves will not make such impact in the soil as cows. Thus preventing erosion.

This is why travelling to or at least visiting some other tropical fruit farms is so important to do before attempting something like this because it’s simply a matter of him not knowing what he’s missing out on if he’s never eaten fruits like durian, marang, cempedak, mangosteen, salak etc etc. imo he would have been far better off planting 1,000 marang or mangosteen than mangoes, which as you mentioned likely won’t produce well in that climate.

it's weird spot. 950 meters elevation is kind of borderline between tropicals and high altudue/subtropicals.  As someone already mentioned I think all topicals can still be grown, but they tend to be slow or not produce well. However, you are in Nothern Peru, very close to equator, so you might be able to get away it with it. There is durian fruiting in Uganda, right on equator at 1300 meters.  I would suggest you visit Peter in Costa Rica during peak season for seeds and just taste everything. Chempedaks and very problematic from seed. Sudden death syndrome is common. Mangosteen will probably be ok, but they are very slow growing. On property like yours, can be overwhelmed by weeds. Salak and marang will probably be ok. Durian I would experiment with on steep slopes. Otherwise it sounds like roots will rot on a flatter parts of the property. You can also get almost all the seeds you need from Ecuador. Probably worth visiting him. He is likely not far from you.  http://www.guaycuyacu.net/
 http://www.guaycuyacu.net/seed_sell.html

DurianLover

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2022, 02:45:23 PM »
Everything looks really weird to me. Not how I used to see other tropical places. Totally different weeds.

What is your elevation? Do cherimoyas fruit for other people around you? I wonder if you are high enough? Coconut and cherimoya are generally not the same climate fruit, with few rare overlapping exceptions. You have them both.

I think there is little commercial potential with your planting selection. Mangoes unlikely to fruit well judging by climate alone and your soil description. Amazon tree grape is very low commercial value. No idea of Inga bean value, never seen them in Peru. . Avocados are probably only exception given right varieties.  Assuming ideal scenario, and everything grows to  a size they are suppose to, I think just about everything is planted too close. It's likely to become problematic in 5 years.  Just my 2 cents observation.

I'm big proponent of marang. I think should be planted everywhere in tropics. One of the best fruits in the world, will always have good commercial value once people get to know it in a new place. Big, very beautiful low spreading tree (with proper pruning ). Easy to collect large fruits. 3-4 years from seed. Falling leaves automatically create mulch and prevent weeds. No need to cut grass around the tree once it's big enough. You should definitely introduce some and see how they do in your place. Despite thriving in lowland tropics, I have seen them growing well as high as 1300 meters elevation.

I would try to introduce sheep instead of cows. Cows eat mango leaves and other fruit tree leaves. Sheep unlikely to do so and reach high enough. Also they are lighter animals, hooves will not make such impact in the soil as cows. Thus preventing erosion.

There's been some debate whether or not those are actually "cherimoyas." I'm no expert. Others on here could analyze better.

We're at about 950m elevation. Yes, everything is "too close" from a traditional farming perspective. Half of what we planted is support species, so double the distance. Most of what we planted is seed-grown. Subtract what succumbs to disease, predation, etc. and the specimens that don't produce quality fruit, then you'll end up with a lot more distance. Also, for the overall health of the systsem, in general it's better to overplant. This ecosytem wants to be a forest, so it needs woody material to feed the fungal soils. Our original soil tests showed this place to be pretty low in SOM.

Let's see what else? Mangoes. There are a lot of mango trees nearby that fruit well. Inga fruit is very commercial here, but also not really worth the effort in our situation.

If my original goal was to turn a quick profit from this place, I would've alleycropped the entire property with proven timber species and grafted fruit trees intercropped with coffee and left ten meter wide alleys in between the rows of trees to raise beef cattle to slaughter. Although I'm not convinced grafted is the way to go. There really aren't many successful examples locally. Most successful fruit trees people have are seedlings like Avocados and Caimito. The vast majority of everyone grows coffee for money. It's an endeavor that is lucrative to most because they go up in the national forest, clearcut tracts of land, and burn everything off. They get the nice virgin soil, exploit it for a few years and then move on.

The original goal of our place was more a dream-land place for personal use. Highly experimental, since we didn't know what would be successful. Turns out it's a lot of the stuff I had never heard of before. We planted about 40 species of tree, what makes you so confident to paint with a broad brush and say that none other than avocados will have much commercial potential? Lots of the specimens out here would beg to differ.

I'm not motivated to sell fresh fruit given our location and access. The only sensical thing is to produce value-added products like dried fruits, fermented products, medicinal plant-based supplements, and animals. We plan to start guinea pigs soon, because there is already a lot of Elephant grass and other fodder trees growing on site that could provide 90+ percent of their diet. Sounds very low-overhead to me.

Originally I wanted to raise sheep out here, but that's not practical. Tropical sheep breeds do tend to stand on their hind legs to eat trees, which can rival the 2m browse line of cattle, and I've also been told they are more likely to de-bark trees than cows. Brachiaria spp. are toxic to sheep and will kill them, if they are the majority of their diet. That is the vast majority of grass that we have out on pasture. Also, there is no local market for sheep meat. I'm curious why you and Finca are not fans of the idea of raising cows in this situation. Do you have experience raising cattle? It's not something I plan to do right away. Need to keep an eye on the trees to see if they would be big enough to handle the impact. We've got a ways to go still.

Do you have a scientific name for Marang? I appreciate the suggestion. Any idea if it's available in Peru?

Here's a farming approach that might seem crazy to you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RePJ3rJa1Wg

Marang name is Artocarpus odoratissimus

I don't have experience with cattle, but sometimes we bring a cow to eat grass on more open parts of the property, just tied on a short leash. Once grass is well eaten around they will tend to reach for a tree leaves. Cows absolutely love banana leaves.

spaugh

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2022, 08:26:56 PM »
The place looks really nice.  Super green and lush.   Looks like some hard work with all the weeds and hills.  That will build some real character working on that. 

 The cherimoyas look like atemoya or something with more elongated pointed leaves.   I could be wrong but my cherimoya trees have more round looking leaves and atemoyas have the pointed leaves here. 
« Last Edit: April 24, 2022, 08:35:37 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

Finca La Isla

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2022, 09:17:14 PM »
I have salacca wallichiana growing but I don’t recommend planting that.  Salacca salacca and salacca affinis are the two salaks that are commercial for us.
I agree with planting marang.
Durian is easily the most commercial, mangosteen next.
I think it was mentioned before to check with Terra Frutas in Ecuador. They got material from me and many other places. They are grafting durians and other important trees
Peter

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2022, 09:22:33 PM »
For fruits from the Americas we like Mamey sapote, sapodilla, Matisia, Achacharu, canistel, for a start as certainly having commercial appeal.
Another Asian fruit to plant is rambutan. That has gotten over planted here but had a terrific run.
Peter

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Re: Footage from our 10-hectare food forest
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2022, 08:54:41 PM »
Everything looks really weird to me. Not how I used to see other tropical places. Totally different weeds.

What is your elevation? Do cherimoyas fruit for other people around you? I wonder if you are high enough? Coconut and cherimoya are generally not the same climate fruit, with few rare overlapping exceptions. You have them both.

I think there is little commercial potential with your planting selection. Mangoes unlikely to fruit well judging by climate alone and your soil description. Amazon tree grape is very low commercial value. No idea of Inga bean value, never seen them in Peru. . Avocados are probably only exception given right varieties.  Assuming ideal scenario, and everything grows to  a size they are suppose to, I think just about everything is planted too close. It's likely to become problematic in 5 years.  Just my 2 cents observation.

I'm big proponent of marang. I think should be planted everywhere in tropics. One of the best fruits in the world, will always have good commercial value once people get to know it in a new place. Big, very beautiful low spreading tree (with proper pruning ). Easy to collect large fruits. 3-4 years from seed. Falling leaves automatically create mulch and prevent weeds. No need to cut grass around the tree once it's big enough. You should definitely introduce some and see how they do in your place. Despite thriving in lowland tropics, I have seen them growing well as high as 1300 meters elevation.

I would try to introduce sheep instead of cows. Cows eat mango leaves and other fruit tree leaves. Sheep unlikely to do so and reach high enough. Also they are lighter animals, hooves will not make such impact in the soil as cows. Thus preventing erosion.

This is why travelling to or at least visiting some other tropical fruit farms is so important to do before attempting something like this because it’s simply a matter of him not knowing what he’s missing out on if he’s never eaten fruits like durian, marang, cempedak, mangosteen, salak etc etc. imo he would have been far better off planting 1,000 marang or mangosteen than mangoes, which as you mentioned likely won’t produce well in that climate.

it's weird spot. 950 meters elevation is kind of borderline between tropicals and high altudue/subtropicals.  As someone already mentioned I think all topicals can still be grown, but they tend to be slow or not produce well. However, you are in Nothern Peru, very close to equator, so you might be able to get away it with it. There is durian fruiting in Uganda, right on equator at 1300 meters.  I would suggest you visit Peter in Costa Rica during peak season for seeds and just taste everything. Chempedaks and very problematic from seed. Sudden death syndrome is common. Mangosteen will probably be ok, but they are very slow growing. On property like yours, can be overwhelmed by weeds. Salak and marang will probably be ok. Durian I would experiment with on steep slopes. Otherwise it sounds like roots will rot on a flatter parts of the property. You can also get almost all the seeds you need from Ecuador. Probably worth visiting him. He is likely not far from you.  http://www.guaycuyacu.net/
 http://www.guaycuyacu.net/seed_sell.html

Wow. Thanks for sharing that resource. There are a lot of options there.