Author Topic: Growing Mango trees in Southern California  (Read 179933 times)

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #500 on: October 30, 2020, 10:24:54 PM »
Yes, I agree with RodneyS.

Right now is not the best time to start seeds unless you have a greenhouse or some other means of keeping the soil temperature warm but if you are able to germinate some seeds and keep the alive through Winter, they will have a nice head tart for next year.

Simon

UplanderCA

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #501 on: November 01, 2020, 07:18:56 PM »
Hello everyone,
I have a question,  I have several recent mango grafts that are now starting to push panicles.  Should I trim them before they start to flower?  I didn't expect to see panicles this early (or late in the season).  The two varieties pushing panicles are Maha and NDM.  I don't expect these panicles to successfully produce fruit...especially just before winter.
Cheers,
Tony

bizarrogir

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #502 on: November 01, 2020, 09:45:59 PM »
RodneyS, palingkecil, simon_grow, thank you for the advice. It looks like Ataulfo is polyembyronic. When I grow the seedlings do I need to figure out which one is the clone or does it not matter if I'm planning to graft on top? Also, how many seedlings do I need to grow? Is grafting difficult? If I fail will the whole thing die or will I be able to try again on the same root?

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #503 on: November 16, 2020, 05:35:38 PM »
I thought I would finally post some photos of a few of my mango trees after good 2020 growth. All but the Lemon Zest were grafted to Manila mango seedling. The LZ was grafted to a small Ataulfo mango seeding from seed. The trees below were grafted in late summer 2016 to late 2018. None of the Zill trees are seedlings. Only the rootstocks are seedling mango trees. I have no Turpentine rootstock trees in the ground.

Simon has been a big help over the years and first got me started grafting mangos in 2016. Thanks, Simon. Since I live in coastal So Cal (4-5 miles from the ocean) we do not receive as much heat and our growth is slower than the more inland areas with higher summer temperatures.

My coconut Cream mango tree required extensive shaping and trimming this year to keep more of the growth vertical. New growth has a strong tendency to grow sideways and downward. I cut these off to force up new vertical shoots.

The last two photos are of my young Brewster Lychee tree I just planted in July 2020 and the Molix Sapodilla planted in 2018. 


Coconut Cream Grafted in 2016.


Mallika-Nam Doc Mai. Grafted 2016-2018


Nam Doc Mai Grafted in 2016


Lemon Zest Grafted in late 2017


Sweet Tart Grafted in Late 2016


Brewster Lychee Tree


Molix Sapodilla Tree Planted in 2018
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 05:58:04 PM by Johnny Eat Fruit »

RodneyS

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #504 on: November 16, 2020, 08:03:36 PM »
RodneyS, palingkecil, simon_grow, thank you for the advice. It looks like Ataulfo is polyembyronic. When I grow the seedlings do I need to figure out which one is the clone or does it not matter if I'm planning to graft on top? Also, how many seedlings do I need to grow? Is grafting difficult? If I fail will the whole thing die or will I be able to try again on the same root?

For the Ataulfo, if you're using them for rootstock, then it doesn't matter.  Grow as many seedlings as you plan to graft, either in the near or distant future.  Youtube "mango cleft grafting".  If the graft fails, the scionwood will rot, but the rootstock will still be alive, so can be used to graft, again.

RollingInTheWeeds

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #505 on: November 16, 2020, 09:38:13 PM »
Johnny Eat Fruit, thanks a lot for sharing your photos and experience.  You're making some of us awful damn jealous, but it's probably a good jealousy.  If we're able to grow mangoes, you've shown that we can add mango trees without abandoning every shred of aesthetics we have.  Your yard looks great!

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #506 on: November 16, 2020, 11:48:45 PM »
Hello everyone,
I have a question,  I have several recent mango grafts that are now starting to push panicles.  Should I trim them before they start to flower?  I didn't expect to see panicles this early (or late in the season).  The two varieties pushing panicles are Maha and NDM.  I don't expect these panicles to successfully produce fruit...especially just before winter.
Cheers,
Tony

Hey Tony,

Since your grafts are recent, I would recommend not letting them hold fruit for at least one year. Do not remove the blooms as soon as they appear. If you remove the blooms now, it will re-bloom. It’s best to let the bloom panicles form to full size or close to full size and then remove about 50-80% of the panicles to take off some of the weight.

The remaining 20-50% of the panicles will probably set some fruit. Allow the fruit to continue forming until they reach about the size of your thumb. Once they get this size, clip off the entire panicle. They really start pulling a lot of energy from the tree as the fruit begins to size up after this. Hopefully by this time, the weather is warm enough that once you prune off these fruit, the next flush will be vegetative.

For early varieties, there is a good chance that even after you remove the thumb sized fruit, the weather will still be too cold and your tree will bloom again. If this happens, repeat the procedure again except this time, you will remove the blooms/fruit when average nightly lows are above about 62F. Instead of tracking temps, you can also observe when your other mango trees begin to grow vegetatively. When you see your mango trees, or a neighbors mango tree growing vegetatively, it’s probably safe to remove the fruit/bloom panicles.

Tony, if your rootstock is large, your tree may produce fruit from this bloom but there is a possibility that your graft will die back the following year. The larger and healthier your tree, the less likely it will die back. I recommend that SoCal mango growers not allow their grafts to fruit for one or two years.

Simon

spaugh

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #507 on: November 16, 2020, 11:49:44 PM »
 Havested my first ever mango this week.  The tree was planted 3 years ago and has gotten quite large.  Its a "winters" mango. Nice size, its almost 1.5 pounds.  Hopefully its soft for the fruit party. :D




Brad Spaugh

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #508 on: November 17, 2020, 12:01:19 AM »
RodneyS, palingkecil, simon_grow, thank you for the advice. It looks like Ataulfo is polyembyronic. When I grow the seedlings do I need to figure out which one is the clone or does it not matter if I'm planning to graft on top? Also, how many seedlings do I need to grow? Is grafting difficult? If I fail will the whole thing die or will I be able to try again on the same root?

Hello Bizzarogir,

If you plant an Ataulfo and plan to topwork it, you don’t need to select the clone. I would separate any seedlings that are easy to separate, just to give them more room to grow. If you can’t separate them, just plant them and allow them to grow until you can obviously see which seedlings are the strongest and most vigorous growing.

You may want to keep your strongest two or three seedlings in case any of your grafts fail. Grafting is relatively easy, especially if you’re detail oriented. It’s easy to watch a few YouTube videos and practice on any branches you have in your yard.

For any given seedling, you can graft onto it multiple times if you plan ahead. For example, if you have a typical 3-4 feet tall Lavern Manilla mango from Home Depot, you can cleft graft the top and put on additional bud or veneer grafts lower down the tree.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #509 on: November 17, 2020, 12:08:16 AM »
I thought I would finally post some photos of a few of my mango trees after good 2020 growth. All but the Lemon Zest were grafted to Manila mango seedling. The LZ was grafted to a small Ataulfo mango seeding from seed. The trees below were grafted in late summer 2016 to late 2018. None of the Zill trees are seedlings. Only the rootstocks are seedling mango trees. I have no Turpentine rootstock trees in the ground.

Simon has been a big help over the years and first got me started grafting mangos in 2016. Thanks, Simon. Since I live in coastal So Cal (4-5 miles from the ocean) we do not receive as much heat and our growth is slower than the more inland areas with higher summer temperatures.

My coconut Cream mango tree required extensive shaping and trimming this year to keep more of the growth vertical. New growth has a strong tendency to grow sideways and downward. I cut these off to force up new vertical shoots.

The last two photos are of my young Brewster Lychee tree I just planted in July 2020 and the Molix Sapodilla planted in 2018. 


Coconut Cream Grafted in 2016.


Mallika-Nam Doc Mai. Grafted 2016-2018


Nam Doc Mai Grafted in 2016


Lemon Zest Grafted in late 2017


Sweet Tart Grafted in Late 2016


Brewster Lychee Tree


Molix Sapodilla Tree Planted in 2018

Johnny, your trees are looking amazing! The trunks and branches of your tree look really strong and the shape looks perfect. Hopefully you will be rewarded with lots of top quality fruit soon. Please keep us updated on the progress of your trees!

Simon

CA Hockey

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #510 on: November 17, 2020, 11:11:32 AM »
My trees have grown pretty well the past 2 years, although I haven't been on top of pruning. Seedlings definitely grow best, but some varieties like lemon zest and orange essence and Ambrosia have grown very well for me. My best fruit this year has been pina colada (brix 27-30, ripe in November) and cac (brix 26, ripe in October). Coconut cream had brix 16 but still carried its flavor well. Taralay alwa had been brix about 15, good texture and flavor just OK. Ambrosia I believe is not true Ambrosia, got it from plantogram. M4 has put out lots of fruit which I harvested early last week prior to ripening... I picked early because I figured our Temps were dropping and they wouldn't get any better, will report later. Overall, I was disappointed until tasting the Pina colada and cac. There's hope for next year. For comparison, I had picked 1 Pina colada 1 month ago, brix about 16 and not anything special. 1 month later - fantastic taste. Orange sherbet put out several mangos but the ones I've tried so far haven't been anything special either. I chalk it up to young trees. I'm planning on changing my fertilization and watering practices next spring and expecting better quality fruit next year.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 11:17:20 AM by CA Hockey »

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #511 on: November 17, 2020, 10:08:26 PM »
Havested my first ever mango this week.  The tree was planted 3 years ago and has gotten quite large.  Its a "winters" mango. Nice size, its almost 1.5 pounds.  Hopefully its soft for the fruit party. :D



Hopefully it will ripen properly for the tasting! I remember that tree was growing really well. If the fruit quality isn’t up to par, I can top work it to a newer Zill variety.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #512 on: November 18, 2020, 12:28:51 PM »
My trees have grown pretty well the past 2 years, although I haven't been on top of pruning. Seedlings definitely grow best, but some varieties like lemon zest and orange essence and Ambrosia have grown very well for me. My best fruit this year has been pina colada (brix 27-30, ripe in November) and cac (brix 26, ripe in October). Coconut cream had brix 16 but still carried its flavor well. Taralay alwa had been brix about 15, good texture and flavor just OK. Ambrosia I believe is not true Ambrosia, got it from plantogram. M4 has put out lots of fruit which I harvested early last week prior to ripening... I picked early because I figured our Temps were dropping and they wouldn't get any better, will report later. Overall, I was disappointed until tasting the Pina colada and cac. There's hope for next year. For comparison, I had picked 1 Pina colada 1 month ago, brix about 16 and not anything special. 1 month later - fantastic taste. Orange sherbet put out several mangos but the ones I've tried so far haven't been anything special either. I chalk it up to young trees. I'm planning on changing my fertilization and watering practices next spring and expecting better quality fruit next year.

CA Hockey,

Sounds like you had a decent harvest this year. I had several Ambrosia this year and they were ok but not impressive.

Seedling trees are by far the most vigorous growers for us here in SoCal because of the lack of florigenic hormones due to the juvenility of the trees. Seedling trees will not bloom for at least several years which allows them to grow vegetatively and 100% of the energy gets put to extending its root system and canopy.

I cannot convey enough how much energy is wasted by our grafted mango trees in an attempt to flower and fruit. A young grafted mango tree that is 3 feet tall with fewer than 50 leaves in many instances will flower about 3 times in its first winter. All that wasted energy spent on a fruitless effort is then deducted from the trees resources and the young tree will now only be able to push a small vegetative growth if at all.

Pina Colada is an awesome mango, I just wish it was a larger fruit with a smaller seed. I’ve had some Pineapple Pleasure mangos that tasted like a giant Pina Colada except it lacked any coconut and was a bit less sweet although it was still very sweet. Pineapple Pleasure is an excellent mango.

The Po Pyu Kalay, Lemon Zest and Orange Sherbet lineage seems to produce very watered down and mild tasting fruit the first year or two and then the fruit starts improving significantly from my experience. I haven’t fruited any Orange sherbet yet but I’ve tasted several from my friends tree over the years.

Simon

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #513 on: November 18, 2020, 01:27:10 PM »
Hi Simon, should we let our seedlings fruit before grafting onto them? Thx
Nate

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #514 on: November 18, 2020, 02:34:48 PM »
Hey Nate,

I’m the adventurous type so my personal opinion is that if you spent the time to grow out a seedling, you might as well let it fruit to see what you have. Who knows, you may chance upon a new flavor profile or just get super lucky with an amazing tasting fruit.

It is highly unlikely that you will get a super amazing fruit but there is a good possibility that you get a decent tasting fruit. My friend Margot grew out a tree from seed about 20-25 years ago and here tree is very productive with good tasting fruit. It’s not top tier but it’s a good fruit in the same league as Kent, Glenn, Vp etc...

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21350.msg261001#msg261001

Leo Manuel also planted out many seedlings and he has made a number of selections from them. Not all the seedlings were keepers but the ones he kept are quite good and very disease resistant.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.0

Nate, not all seedlings are the same. With Polyembryonic mangos, there is a significantly higher chance of good quality fruit from the seedling because there is a high probability of getting a clone. With Polyembryonic mango seedlings, there is also the probability of getting the zygotic seedling but the zygotic seedling may be selfed, meaning it was pollinated by itself.

This selfed seedling is Not a clone even though all of its genetic material came from itself. The zygotic seedling is the result of sexual reproduction so there were rearrangements of its genetic material. This is a possible explanation for how Lemon Zest and Orange Sherbet were selected from Po Pyu Kalay seedlings.

I highly recommend that us SoCal mango growers grow out Polyembryonic seeds from varieties like Sweet Tart, Orange Sherbet, COC and NDM as their number one choice for rootstocks. I recommend these even over Lavern Manilla.

Monoembryonic seedlings are also excellent as rootstocks but you are much less likely to get excellent fruit from them. Monoembryonic seedlings are highly variable from the research I have done. Monoembryonic seedlings usually start out as bigger plants as soon as they sprout because they get the energy fro the whole seed unlike Polyembryonic seedlings.

Simon

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #515 on: November 19, 2020, 03:30:03 PM »







The greenhouse has proven very helpful for mangoes in my 9b location. Most of my grafts this year worked and the trees are all pushing nicely considering the temps.

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #516 on: November 19, 2020, 03:50:37 PM »







The greenhouse has proven very helpful for mangoes in my 9b location. Most of my grafts this year worked and the trees are all pushing nicely considering the temps.

Are all grafted mangoes from this year seedlings?

K-Rimes

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #517 on: November 19, 2020, 03:53:59 PM »
The really large one is a diamond grafted onto probably turpentine. I top worked it with some peach cobbler which all seem to have taken, NDM with no luck, and maybe 50% with Sweet Tart. To be seen.

I have about 20 seedlings from this year from FL mangoes, lots of types, no grafts yet - they're not shown. The large grafted plant in the photos is 1 year old VP seedling with guava (which is pushing strong), and Peach Cobbler that is still really nice and green and fat but hasn't pushed yet. I think they need more fertilizer but I'm hesitant with winter and all. Maybe another greenhouse owner can chime in if feeding is ok?

Lovetoplant

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #518 on: November 19, 2020, 08:01:21 PM »
The really large one is a diamond grafted onto probably turpentine. I top worked it with some peach cobbler which all seem to have taken, NDM with no luck, and maybe 50% with Sweet Tart. To be seen.

I have about 20 seedlings from this year from FL mangoes, lots of types, no grafts yet - they're not shown. The large grafted plant in the photos is 1 year old VP seedling with guava (which is pushing strong), and Peach Cobbler that is still really nice and green and fat but hasn't pushed yet. I think they need more fertilizer but I'm hesitant with winter and all. Maybe another greenhouse owner can chime in if feeding is ok?

I notice some stringlights inside the greenhouse.  Do they really keep it warm?  I used to have 1500w heater turned on at night for mine but the power bill gotten too expensive
How is your power bill with lights on?

John B

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #519 on: November 20, 2020, 12:38:36 AM »
I thought I would finally post some photos of a few of my mango trees after good 2020 growth. All but the Lemon Zest were grafted to Manila mango seedling. The LZ was grafted to a small Ataulfo mango seeding from seed. The trees below were grafted in late summer 2016 to late 2018. None of the Zill trees are seedlings. Only the rootstocks are seedling mango trees. I have no Turpentine rootstock trees in the ground.

Simon has been a big help over the years and first got me started grafting mangos in 2016. Thanks, Simon. Since I live in coastal So Cal (4-5 miles from the ocean) we do not receive as much heat and our growth is slower than the more inland areas with higher summer temperatures.

My coconut Cream mango tree required extensive shaping and trimming this year to keep more of the growth vertical. New growth has a strong tendency to grow sideways and downward. I cut these off to force up new vertical shoots.

The last two photos are of my young Brewster Lychee tree I just planted in July 2020 and the Molix Sapodilla planted in 2018. 


Coconut Cream Grafted in 2016.


Mallika-Nam Doc Mai. Grafted 2016-2018


Nam Doc Mai Grafted in 2016


Lemon Zest Grafted in late 2017


Sweet Tart Grafted in Late 2016


Brewster Lychee Tree


Molix Sapodilla Tree Planted in 2018

Beautiful trees. What are you currently fertilizing them with? My Alano sapodilla was about a 1.5' grafted tree when I bought it two years ago. It's grown about 6" in that time.  ;D

I've grown fond of it even though I realize it will just be an ornamental shrub and I will need to buy another larger tree to start with.

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #520 on: November 20, 2020, 09:46:08 AM »
I apply Down to Earth fruit tree organic fertilizer in the spring and throughout the summer. I also apply azomite twice a year to all of my fruit trees to supply all the necessary trace elements.

Johnny

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #521 on: November 20, 2020, 07:55:09 PM »
The really large one is a diamond grafted onto probably turpentine. I top worked it with some peach cobbler which all seem to have taken, NDM with no luck, and maybe 50% with Sweet Tart. To be seen.

I have about 20 seedlings from this year from FL mangoes, lots of types, no grafts yet - they're not shown. The large grafted plant in the photos is 1 year old VP seedling with guava (which is pushing strong), and Peach Cobbler that is still really nice and green and fat but hasn't pushed yet. I think they need more fertilizer but I'm hesitant with winter and all. Maybe another greenhouse owner can chime in if feeding is ok?


I fertilize my trees that are in the greenhouse even now. I do keep GH temp above 60F with a 1500 watt heater. It’s a 6’x6’ palram hybrid with BioGreen heater. Here are some of my seedlings and grafted trees. Seedling is a Harvest Moon, planted on 5/23/20 and behind that is a grafted Ok Rung on Manila seedling, grafted on 4/13/20.








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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #522 on: November 20, 2020, 09:44:32 PM »
I apply Down to Earth fruit tree organic fertilizer in the spring and throughout the summer. I also apply azomite twice a year to all of my fruit trees to supply all the necessary trace elements.

Johnny

Thanks for the info.

Lovetoplant

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #523 on: November 21, 2020, 02:06:37 AM »
The really large one is a diamond grafted onto probably turpentine. I top worked it with some peach cobbler which all seem to have taken, NDM with no luck, and maybe 50% with Sweet Tart. To be seen.

I have about 20 seedlings from this year from FL mangoes, lots of types, no grafts yet - they're not shown. The large grafted plant in the photos is 1 year old VP seedling with guava (which is pushing strong), and Peach Cobbler that is still really nice and green and fat but hasn't pushed yet. I think they need more fertilizer but I'm hesitant with winter and all. Maybe another greenhouse owner can chime in if feeding is ok?




I fertilize my trees that are in the greenhouse even now. I do keep GH temp above 60F with a 1500 watt heater. It’s a 6’x6’ palram hybrid with BioGreen heater. Here are some of my seedlings and grafted trees. Seedling is a Harvest Moon, planted on 5/23/20 and behind that is a grafted Ok Rung on Manila seedling, grafted on 4/13/20.








You don't need to put any shade cloth over the top of your greenhouse?  Won't it get very hot during summer?  I have 80% shade cloth on the top and it reaches 100+ Inside during summer.  My greenhouse size is 20'x10'   Do you have your heater on all night or put it on timer?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 02:14:14 AM by Lovetoplant »

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #524 on: November 21, 2020, 10:36:24 AM »

You don't need to put any shade cloth over the top of your greenhouse?  Won't it get very hot during summer?  I have 80% shade cloth on the top and it reaches 100+ Inside during summer.  My greenhouse size is 20'x10'   Do you have your heater on all night or put it on timer?

I take out one side panel from both sides end of June to maintain GH temp. I also installed an automatic vent opener and couple of downspray  sprinkler heads to maintain high humidity. Heater is on a thermostat, I set it to turn on when temp drops below 61F and turn off at 62F. I keep an eye on the temp and humidity with a weather station sensor. Everything is pretty much automated and requires minimal attention.