Author Topic: Does anyone growing mangoes think this is feasible I'm skeptical  (Read 978 times)

bovine421

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In this paper, we found that mango (Mangifera indica L.) fruit treated with 10 μM brassinolide (BL) showed a higher tolerance to cold temperature of 5 °C.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00726-012-1327-6

This may be  antidotical evidence but this is why I have my doubts. This time last year when we had a radiant freeze a lot of people in the Gulf Coast the FB people sprayed this with Blind Faith and no other protection and most of their trees died or were severely damaged. I have heard claims and statements that it increases the fluidity of the of the membrane of the cell and has a antifreeze effect also that it strengthens the cell wall structure and keeps ice crystals from rupturing. Also that it acclimatizes plant. I understand that they use it in certain grain crops and that the Citrus industry has played around with it. Call me skeptical but I think it's claims as far as freeze protection are overstated. Please disagree with me I want to be wrong. Is it a silver bullet LOL
Last early spring I gave one of my friends 50 rootstock to do a control experiment with brassinole and gibberellic acid
A portion did not receive any spray another portion received recommended spray the last batch got a Frankenstein dose. We didn't observe any noticeable benefit to doing this making it worth the time and effort. I wanted to find out if I sprayed some of my young in the ground trees if I could get an extra vegetative flush per growth season. Next winter I will have him do the same with brassinole and if we have a Foster Freeze we will see what happens.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2023, 07:53:15 PM by bovine421 »
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Galatians522

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Re: Does anyone growing mangoes think this is feasible I'm skeptical
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2023, 09:23:32 PM »
I have never heard of that stuff. What I have heard is that waterproof Kaolin clay can help with cold protection. I imagine that anything which causes water to bead up on the leaf would do the same thing. We have never tried it at the farm, and I am not sure if the Surround Wetable Powder would work the same as a waterproof Kaolin product, but I have thought about spraying it on my pineapples some frosty night to see if the claims are for real. This article is very similar to what I remember reading in the past. The part about cold protection is toward the end. Suposedly, beans and tomatoes sprayed with the stuff survived exposure to 21 degreese in a test facility.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://agresearchmag.ars.usda.gov/2000/nov/white&ved=2ahUKEwjiuc_jitX8AhVaRDABHV44AlYQFnoECAsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw37PzsEyAty_7Zvfbjr1On5


bovine421

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Re: Does anyone growing mangoes think this is feasible I'm skeptical
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2023, 09:33:32 PM »
The Citrus industry from what I read experimented with brassinole and gibberellic acid both plant steroids for fruit set and fruit retention on orange trees. From what I remember of the article it produced more fruit but the size was not marketable so they discontinued use. I heard a claim that used it with Citrus Greening but I can't find an article that states that. I was hoping some of the Citrus folks in Polk County Lakeland area would weigh in on the subject.
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Galatians522

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Re: Does anyone growing mangoes think this is feasible I'm skeptical
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2023, 09:51:07 PM »
The Citrus industry from what I read experimented with brassinole and gibberellic acid both plant steroids for fruit set and fruit retention on orange trees. From what I remember of the article it produced more fruit but the size was not marketable so they discontinued use. I heard a claim that used it with Citrus Greening but I can't find an article that states that. I was hoping some of the Citrus folks in Polk County Lakeland area would weigh in on the subject.

You know, I think you are right. There was an article in Citrus Industry magazine about that some time back. I had forgotten about it. Here are the two articles that might interest you. GA and 2,4 D are growth regulators. In high doses the later acts as a weed killer. In low doses it has a similar function to GA. Although it is very common (its probably been used on every seedless grape you have eaten on the past 20 years), I am pretty sure that GA has been linked to increased cancer risk.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://citrusindustry.net/category/fruit-drop/&ved=2ahUKEwj7yoKxj9X8AhWRZDABHVvwDN4QFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw35CHStEGwt9CfSB2t3o60y

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://citrusindustry.net/2019/06/19/update-on-brassinosteroids-for-hlb-management/&ved=2ahUKEwibtNrFj9X8AhXdVTABHXsLDXAQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1WaDXMMVQP2mkPfnfiIZU7

pagnr

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Re: Does anyone growing mangoes think this is feasible I'm skeptical
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2023, 10:07:54 PM »
In this paper, we found that mango (Mangifera indica L.) fruit treated with 10 μM brassinolide (BL) showed a higher tolerance to cold temperature of 5 °C.

is that 5'C  or - 5'C ??

5'C does not seem too low, for Mangoes.

bovine421

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Re: Does anyone growing mangoes think this is feasible I'm skeptical
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2023, 10:13:02 PM »
In this paper, we found that mango (Mangifera indica L.) fruit treated with 10 μM brassinolide (BL) showed a higher tolerance to cold temperature of 5 °C.

is that 5'C  or - 5'C ??

5'C does not seem too low, for Mangoes.
I'm reading it as saying of
 Which is subtracting 7.5 ° f to the tolerance
If it said to 5° C that would be 41° f
I wouldn't lose any sleep over 41°f Now if it hit 37f with possible Frost that would be different.
If Young mango tree is tolerant to 32°f, you subtract 7.5°f would make its tolerance 25°f.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2023, 10:36:15 PM by bovine421 »
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Galatians522

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Re: Does anyone growing mangoes think this is feasible I'm skeptical
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2023, 10:55:19 PM »
I think it is talking about 41 degrees because it says mango fruit. The fruit is subject to chilling injury below 50. Especially if it is kept at that temp for long periods of time.

bovine421

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Re: Does anyone growing mangoes think this is feasible I'm skeptical
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2023, 11:54:02 PM »
I think it is talking about 41 degrees because it says mango fruit. The fruit is subject to chilling injury below 50. Especially if it is kept at that temp for long periods of time.
You're right I see it now. That's why I like my trees to Bloom as late as possible. But for the most part as long as the blooms don't get toasted by Frost these trees in Central Florida keep producing. .
« Last Edit: January 20, 2023, 05:16:13 AM by bovine421 »
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bovine421

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Re: Does anyone growing mangoes think this is feasible I'm skeptical
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2023, 05:59:11 AM »
Anytime we get a frost or freeze forecast FB people asks for this. I don't use it and haven't found it necessary. But they are selling a lot of it. Am I the only one who's bucking this trend?

https://youtu.be/Ye5HNX_nG48
« Last Edit: January 20, 2023, 06:00:43 AM by bovine421 »
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Galatians522

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Re: Does anyone growing mangoes think this is feasible I'm skeptical
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2023, 06:06:52 AM »
Thank you for the link, it was very educational. I guess time will show if this works or not.

bovine421

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Re: Does anyone growing mangoes think this is feasible I'm skeptical
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2023, 06:35:48 AM »
Thank you for the link, it was very educational. I guess time will show if this works or not.
I think it's usefulness is vastly overstated and this time last year there were a lot of people who put Faith in it that had regrets. Over these holiday Frost freeze events they were  not singing and pushing it as much as this time last year but people were still asking for it. Give me that old time Religion I'm putting my faith in irrigation and Propane Looking in the sky and asking the good Lord for favor! My friends and family say I am a provocateur but I would really like for some folks to weigh in on this
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Jagmanjoe

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Re: Does anyone growing mangoes think this is feasible I'm skeptical
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2023, 08:28:43 AM »
One misconception I have understood about Brassinolide is that the effectiveness is based on multiple sprays of plants starting well before any anticipated freeze.
I jumped in trying it with both feet last winter but did not know about starting early that time.  I also put incandescent lights and had frames and frost cloth last winter.  I live in a colder microclimate in South Lakeland and last year the temperatures hit and stayed for hours at a time in the mid 20's.  I also had issues with the wind and maintaining the covers intact.  At my age I just no longer have the ability to accomplish things like when I was younger.
Out of 13 trees that had been in the ground from one to two years, I completely lost an Ugly Betty about 5 ft tall, and a Lancitilla also about 5 ft tall.  I also lost a really nice Peach Cobbler almost to the ground but it did come back slightly above the graft but will take another year or two to be large enough to fruit.  I also had a Chocanon, Glenn, Keitt and Ice Cream that were significantly damaged but came back.

This year I started spraying earlier but because we were going out of town and just not having the energy to try to cover the trees.  I sprayed the Brassinolide about a month before the cold, again about two weeks before and each of three days before leaving which was five days before the start of the cold front.  We had three days of cold here during that event.  Two of the nights we were at or below freezing from one in the morning until after eight and a significant portion of the time was in the 20's and as low as 27 for hours.  The first night was windy but no frost, the second and third nights included frost.

A week later many of the trees had some leaf burn showing but that was it.  I have continued spraying Brassinolide every two weeks and this past weekend, we had two nights below freezing for several hours and a low of 29 degrees one of the days.  While I am seeing significant damage on the two grafted seedlings that replaced the two trees that were lost, they still look like they will make it and the larger trees, as large as about eight feet, are showing no more damage than from the first front.

Also of note, my Ice Cream Mango was showing panicles prior to the first front.  Those did die but more panicles have been developing and with this cold, they seem to be surviving.

In fairness, this was totally unscientific and the trees are more established this year but the colder microclimate here is confirmed by nearby weather stations that are consistent with mine which averages as much as eight to ten degrees colder than the reported Lakeland Airport temps.

Again just my personal experiences.

bovine421

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Re: Does anyone growing mangoes think this is feasible I'm skeptical
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2023, 09:04:24 AM »
One misconception I have understood about Brassinolide is that the effectiveness is based on multiple sprays of plants starting well before any anticipated freeze.
I jumped in trying it with both feet last winter but did not know about starting early that time.  I also put incandescent lights and had frames and frost cloth last winter.  I live in a colder microclimate in South Lakeland and last year the temperatures hit and stayed for hours at a time in the mid 20's.  I also had issues with the wind and maintaining the covers intact.  At my age I just no longer have the ability to accomplish things like when I was younger.
Out of 13 trees that had been in the ground from one to two years, I completely lost an Ugly Betty about 5 ft tall, and a Lancitilla also about 5 ft tall.  I also lost a really nice Peach Cobbler almost to the ground but it did come back slightly above the graft but will take another year or two to be large enough to fruit.  I also had a Chocanon, Glenn, Keitt and Ice Cream that were significantly damaged but came back.

This year I started spraying earlier but because we were going out of town and just not having the energy to try to cover the trees.  I sprayed the Brassinolide about a month before the cold, again about two weeks before and each of three days before leaving which was five days before the start of the cold front.  We had three days of cold here during that event.  Two of the nights we were at or below freezing from one in the morning until after eight and a significant portion of the time was in the 20's and as low as 27 for hours.  The first night was windy but no frost, the second and third nights included frost.

A week later many of the trees had some leaf burn showing but that was it.  I have continued spraying Brassinolide every two weeks and this past weekend, we had two nights below freezing for several hours and a low of 29 degrees one of the days.  While I am seeing significant damage on the two grafted seedlings that replaced the two trees that were lost, they still look like they will make it and the larger trees, as large as about eight feet, are showing no more damage than from the first front.

Also of note, my Ice Cream Mango was showing panicles prior to the first front.  Those did die but more panicles have been developing and with this cold, they seem to be surviving.

In fairness, this was totally unscientific and the trees are more established this year but the colder microclimate here is confirmed by nearby weather stations that are consistent with mine which averages as much as eight to ten degrees colder than the reported Lakeland Airport temps.

Again just my personal experiences.
When I was younger I used to try to come up with a half dozen major projects to accomplish on the weekends. Then after hitting the big Five-O I whittled that down to three minor projects. When I reach the posted speed limit 55 I just tried to come up with three ways to entertain myself. Now I'm at the point where it's just one day at a time Sweet Mango  🙂
Out of curiosity  in 2023/24 we're going to try to do some more controlled experiments with root stock sprayed with brassinole plant hormone. I appreciate your input and encourage you to take notes
« Last Edit: January 20, 2023, 09:06:34 AM by bovine421 »
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Squam256

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Re: Does anyone growing mangoes think this is feasible I'm skeptical
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2023, 11:22:29 AM »
I’m extremely skeptical that any significant cold tolerance will be achieved from spraying Brassinolide on mangos.

 

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