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Messages - Sunmicroman

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1
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hardy citrus in PNW
« on: April 11, 2024, 06:10:28 PM »
It has been 8F in Vancouver, WA. a few years back and it is still classified zone 8b. Rare, once in a while, lows below your zone designation do not dictate what zone an area is classified as. The USDA zone map lists Kelso and my area outside of town as a zone 8b. This was just an off winter. But, we all know about the new USDA zone reclassifications and trusting them. ;-)

Yes, unfortunately Woodlanders only sells citrus seedlings. The reason I mentioned it was for people to consider that when I wrote about what got damaged, etc. and what did not. Yes, and I agree there are different variations within varieties that do affect hardiness. I also think where they originally come from can alter that some, but that is just my theory. I am thinking since my Picone Citremon began it's life in the area it did, that had some influence on its hardiness and also what it will tolerate, but again, I can't prove that. However, I believe there are some variations of cold hardiness tolerances from the same type of variety, but originating from differing geographic areas.


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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hardy citrus in PNW
« on: April 11, 2024, 02:33:56 PM »
I don't post much here, but thought I'd chime in, since I do and have grown hardy citrus in the Pac NW for many years. Since many here may not know me yet (but those that have been doing this for a while might recognize my username from older citrus boards), I started my cold hardy citrus journey in the Pac NW around '93-'94 and have grown too many varieties to even list (or remember, LOL). I moved to Albuquerque NM for a few months in the summer of '97 and started the "Hardy Palm and Subtropical Board" back then (as far as I am aware of, the first of its kind).

I got remarried and we purchased a home last summer. So, I basically just planted my yard, to give some perspective. I have owned two other houses in the Pac NW, with most recently before that one with an ex that was located in Gladstone, Oregon (Portland metro area). Unfortunately, I lost most of my citrus due to my ex keeping the house in our divorce (and she didn't like how I planted the yard, so she was going to get rid of a lot of the plants). So, I had to start out all over again (with just a couple of hardy citrus in pots from that house). My new location is outside the city of Kelso, WA. in the country by the hills. I am around 45 mins north up the highway from my friend Jim VH who is in Vancouver, WA. My temps usually run about 5+ degrees colder than his, but I still am in zone 8 (with the advent of "a" and "b" designations, I am not quite sure which fits my location yet). So that is a little of my back round and now on to this past winter's hardy citrus results.

This past winter we had 4-5 days below freezing and a low of 10, I believe like two times (with a few frost days before that freeze, that probably helped harden off the citrus some). I did no protection (in retrospect, I should have, but wasn't prepared for an arctic front the first year we were there).

The varieties that didn't seem to get damaged are:

   x639 larger rootstock seedling (Madison) that lost a few leaves, but surprisingly kept a few. Very happy with the hardiness of this variety
   Taitri Seeding I got from my long time citrus buddy eyeckr
   My Picone Citremon (has my last name in it. named by my friend eyeckr) just defoliation, but no apparent twig damage. A little about this one. Back in 2012, I bought a Meyer Lemon
   from the store and decided to pant some of its seeds. I got a few sprouts and to my surprise, one had trifoliate leaves. Having years of knowledge about hardy citrus, I immediately knew I
   had a trifoliate hybrid and was excited to see what would become of it. As a seedling, it survived in a container outside and this was in a pretty wet damp location and, if I recall correctly,
   froze solid in it's container and may have taken 12 or so degrees in that container as a small seedling (so froze solid) in one of our arctic fronts that happen in the Pac NW from time to time
   with no damage that I remember. I knew I had something of a winner. So after purchasing my last house with my ex in 2018, I planted it in the ground and it did really well. But,
   unfortunately due to the divorce and not having anywhere at the time for it, my son and myself dug it up and planted at his house where it may have died (hope not, but it's not looking good
   right now). However, luckily I had some foresight and sent some cuttings to eyeckr who graciously grafted them for me (haven't quite honed my grafting skills quite yet and wanted to make
   sure it was saved) and then sent me back a couple of the grafted cuttings. One of which is currently in my new yard. I haven't had fruit yet, but am really hoping it is good, since it seems to
   be very well adapted to the Pac NW with it's wet damp cold winters
   Trifeola (One Green World) - (mainly defoliation, but no apparent twig dieback)
   A very tiny grafted Prague (Stan Mckenzie) that had some snow cover
   A pure Poncirus (rootstock from Stan Mckenzie)- not even any leaf drop

The varieties that received damage were:

   Grafted (on US 942) Changsha (Madison) - dead as a doornail to the graft point
   Thomasville seedling from eyeckr - twig dieback, but looks like it will make it, as some green on bottom part of it
   Ichang Lemon seedling (Woodlanders) - looks pretty much dead
   Taiwanica Lemon seedling (Woodlanders) - looks pretty much dead
   Ichang Papeda seedling (Woodlanders) - Twig dieback to pretty much the snow line. Green beneath that, so I am hoping it recovers. Honestly, I am not that impressed with Ichang
   Papeda's hardiness (at least, in my area), especially in light of its reputation
   US 942 seedling (decent sized rootstock tree from Madison) - a lot of twig damage. This one really disappointed me because I had heard it was a good candidate for a hardy edible
   citrus and it is is close to the same size as the x639 that had no damage
   Keraji seedling (Woodlanders) - dead, but still remarkably has some greenish leaves hanging on that go down to a dead looking twig. I expect them to eventually fall off and it to be
   probably dead
   Rusk Citrange (Woodlanders) - pretty dead, but still has some green on the lower trunk (probably around snow line). I really wanted this variety, so I hope it grows back
   Grafted Yuzu on PT (Stan Mckenzie) - dead twigs and appears to be dying back to graft point. This one also really disappointed me, as Yuzu is pretty hardy (this one was located right
   next to the x639 in my front yard)
   Ventura Lemandarin - very small seedling I got from Jim VH. It died back to snow the line, but is starting to grow from it's truck. It is remarkably hardy, since it really is a very small
   seedling

   I also have a very small Flying Dragon in a pot on my porch that froze, so we will see how it does. So far, pretty green still.

I am not too surprised with some of the results, as I have been doing this long enough to kind of know what to expect with small plants, no protection, and that kind of freeze. But, was still hopeful. Anyway, it did show me what was the most hardy for my area, though (I do know it can get potentially lower than last winter's freeze once every decade or so, but will be ready with protection this time, in case of that event).

3
Looking for seedlings or cuttings of Mustang Grape. Would like to add it to my vine collection.

Thanks.

4
Not really interested in buying from him at the moment. Just would like to see what the guy on Sauvie island has and has been doing since I have for so long as well. More for sharing info on culture of plants.

Yes, very familiar with One Green World and have been buying plants from them for years (mainly in person and back in the 90s when the nursery was "Northwoods Nursery" in Molalla, OR. before they moved to the Portland area. Bought my first Morton Citrange from them back in '94).

Thanks for the info. Always appreciated.

5
That's really cool. I might have to visit the nursery on Sauvie island sometime. I wasn't aware of too many other people (or any at the time actually) trying to grow hardy citrus in the Pac NW when I started trying it myself back in '94. It's good to find out there were others around that time period too. There was a nursery I bought my first Morton Citrange from back in 1994 located in Molalla, OR. which was called "Northwoods Nursery" which I think One Green World is on offshoot of. There were mail order nurseries including one in Oregon called "Oregon Exotics" (no longer around) that had some cold hardy citrus offerings (but some felt they exaggerated the hardiness and/or edibility of the varieties they sold back then). Also, before the big onset of the internet, I did all of my cold hardy citrus research from Libraries. That's where I first found out about Citranges and PT (1993). After I started dabbling with the internet, I started the "Hardy Palm & Subtropical Board" (1997) and was able to correspond with others easier (much better than snail mail) and could collaborate on the subject better, as we do here. So it was great to find the recent Oregonian article and also find that there were some others who have been at this for a long time as well (Pac NW growers).

My interest actually started after moving up from Southern California in the '90s and having some banter with my ex father-in-law about the advantages of living up here. We were bantering again one time and he said to me "How many orange trees do you have growing in your yard?" and I thought, I wonder if there are any cold hardy orange trees? I started doing research and the rest is history as I caught the cold hardy citrus bug.

Anyway, I might give that nursery on Sauvie a visit. Sounds interesting. Thanks for the info.

6
The Oregonian newspaper has an article about growing cold hardy citrus in the Pac NW. I have been involved with this hobby since 1994 (including growing other cold hardy exotics, such as palms and cacti/succulents). Nice to see they are recognizing and writing about this.

https://www.oregonlive.com/hg/2022/01/yes-you-can-grow-citrus-in-the-pacific-northwest-heres-how-to-get-started.html

7
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Minneola x Meyer lemon
« on: December 21, 2021, 04:10:58 PM »
That is a pretty cool hybrid. I think growing out a few seedlings might produce some interesting results. I planted a few seeds from a store bought Meyer Lemon many years ago and now have a Citremon tree (tentatively named the "Picone" Citremon, it has trifoliate leaves, so I know there is PT in the mix) that has proved very hardy to frost and the cold damp winter conditions we have in the Pacific NW. It hasn't fruited yet, but am hopeful the fruit will be an edible quality (Meyer lemon is a hybrid to begin with, so my Citremon will be a nice complex hybrid). I would be curious to find out what the results are from any seeds you germinate from that fruit you have. Again cool fruit.

8
Just ordered one of these myself (not a cutting, but an actual tree. Not sure if it is grafted to PT or Flying Dragon, but I assume so) and will be trying out in my yard in the Portland, OR. area of the US. I am also curious about the flavor. I have read an article online that states the fruit is sweet, is less acid, and is more tart than other Satsumas. I will be sure to update on this thread when am able to get ripe fruit from my tree. A description of it's fruit is listed in this article I found via a Google search:

http://www.athinkingstomach.com/2010/01/mandarin-mania.html

9
Cold Hardy Citrus / Citrumelo Soda
« on: January 12, 2021, 02:10:19 PM »

10
Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / ISO Rusk Citrange
« on: December 29, 2020, 05:45:11 PM »
Looking for someone in the US that has fruiting Rusk citrange that would be interested in selling budwood.

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Kabosu
« on: December 22, 2020, 02:27:16 PM »
Nice Kabosu write up Jim. The fruit you gave me was pretty good, nice mellow lemon flavor with no off flavors.

Awesome about the marmalade. Sounds great.

It also seems to be a good candidate for long term in our Pac NW climate. I look forward to hearing how it continues to do for you over the years and might give it a shot in my yard too.

12
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Identify this fruit?
« on: December 15, 2020, 05:16:34 PM »
Looks like yours are mainly seedless? Jim's are as well.

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Identify this fruit?
« on: December 15, 2020, 12:37:19 PM »
Take a look at the pics in this forum on the old Citrus Grower's forum of a guy with a Morton citrange. One Green World used to sell Morton a long time ago when they were Northwoods still (I bought one back in '94, I believe. Never got fruit from it unfortunately before I had to leave it when I moved. It was in a pot and I was living in Albuquerque, NM at the time back in '97). I think this looks a lot like what you have Jim:

http://citrusgrowersstatic.chez.com/web/viewtopic45ac-3.php

What do you think?

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Identify this fruit?
« on: December 11, 2020, 02:59:34 PM »
I just got some of this fruit from Jim and I actually like it. It has a sour flavor, yes, but has an orangish flavor mixed with slight grapefruit (but that could just be the bitterness which is slight). Might be good sweetened with sugar, for those that don't like sour. The color of the flesh is orangish and so is the juice (outside skin a little too). Which lead me to believe it might be a citrange and not a citrumelo. Maybe Benton or Morton?

Also, I have recently tasted and eaten and Swingle citrumelo and it is typical yellowish grapefuit flesh color and also taste (with sourness, of course). A friend of mine has a Dunstan citrumelo and from his review, he compared it to Swingle. Jim's fruit isn't like a Swingle at all (Swingle is seedy also). So I am thinking Jim's mystery trifoliate hybrid is either a citrange or possibly some multi hybrid (Poncirus X some variety of sinensis x paradisi or possibly x maxima) of sorts.

I'd really like to grow this variety due to hardiness and I do like it too.

15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: N1triVoss
« on: December 08, 2020, 02:04:53 PM »
Very cool variety. Would love to be able to find a source of this located within the US.

16
Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Looking for Ichangquat
« on: December 08, 2020, 12:35:10 PM »
Anyone know of a source for Ichangquat in the US? Seeds, budwood, or seedlings would be great.

17
Looks like you're dealing with leaf chlorosis (yellowing), very common problem with subtropicals grown in the Pac NW due to the cold dampness a lot of the year. I don't think cold hardiness of a plant has as much to do with it, as does a citrus plant's ability to tolerate cold "wet feet" (which none like, but some tolerate better than others). You will see this issue on Trachy palms (as well as other palm species) from time time in our climate too. I have found over the years that cold dampness is much more of an issue than outright cold hardiness where we live. That's why finding specimens that can tolerate the cold dampness (including soil temps/moisture) in conjunction with cold hardiness is the real key to success with cold hardy citrus here. I would try possibly amending your soil with some sand for drainage and so it can dry out faster. I think container plants are much more susceptible to this issue unfortunately (I have grown many many over the years).

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: N1triVoss
« on: February 27, 2020, 09:06:47 PM »
Anyone have a source for plants or seeds for this in the states? I have been looking to no avail and would love to add this to my collection.

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