Using kumquat for hardy hybrids (e.g. Ichangquat)

[Peep]

One of my breeding plans is to try and create something similar to Ichangquat. Ichangquat 672 seems to be very hardy, with a lucky combination of the hardiness of Ichangensis and the dormancy of kumquat.
 
I'm posting this in case people have thoughts, opinions, information or suggestions regarding it.

Does anyone know if Ichangquat was made with Kumquat or Ichangensis as the male pollen parrent?

I also don't know which Kumquat was used for Ichangquat, some people seem to think it's Nagami. In that case I think it would be interesting to try crossing with Kumquats that are more hardy and also sweet, this is why I have Nameiwa and Marumi in my collection:

• Nameiwa/Marumi x Ichangensis

There is also Ichangensis IVIA, with better fruit quality, but likely a little less hardy. Still worth a try I think:

• Nameiwa/Marumi x Ichangensis IVIA

Now Kumquat isn't very hardy itself, so I think it needs either a very hardy partner to cross with, or a partner that does not use dormancy much as part of it's hardiness. Otherwise the Kumquat genes will just decrease the hardiness quite a lot. So some options I'm thinking of are:

• Nameiwa/Marumi x N1Tri (don't know if anyone has every tried this)
• Nameiwa/Marumi x Yuzumelo (maybe also Ilya's Staruzu, but I don't know if it rivals Yuzumelo in hardiness)
• Nameiwa/Marumi x Taiwanica (Taiwaniquat seems to exist, but very rare, maybe in the US)
• Nameiwa/Marumi x IchangMoï 'Elisa'
• Nameiwa/Marumi x IchangStar

As you notice, I have not included many 1/2 Poncirus hybrids as partners. This does not interest me as much, with N1Tri as an exception. But I am open to ideas. EDIT: As Mikkel mentioned, N1Tri is possibly also not 1/2nd Poncirus.

Lastly, because Ichangensis IVIA has better fruit quality and lower hardiness (?), maybe this is also interesting:

• Ichangquat '672' x Ichangensis IVIA

Yuzu x Kumquat is an example I think that makes less sense, because I think Yuzu has quite good dormancy. As far as I know, Yuzuquat exists, but was never really popular as it's hardiness wasn't very strong, and it's taste not amazing, so it has no benefit over a regular Yuzu. Maybe there is still some opportunity when crossing the existing Ichangquat 672 with a Yuzu. Because Ichangquat 672 is already more hardy than a pure Kumquat, it opens up more possible partners suchs as:

• Ichangquat '672' x Yuzu
• Ichangquat '672' x Yuzumelo / Staruzu
• Ichangquat '672' x Citrangequat
• Ichangquat '672' x Ichangstar
• Ichangquat '672' x Staraji
• Ichangquat '672' x Taiwanica
• Ichangquat '672' x Changsha
• Ichangquat '672' x Keraji
• ...

[mikkel]

N1Tri is most likely not a direct I P x Poncirus hybrid, but rather an I P x (Citrus xPoncirus) hybrid.
I think Ichangquat 672 is highly nucellar. I think Ilya wrote that once.

[Peep]

N1Tri is most likely not a direct I P x Poncirus hybrid, but rather an I P x (Citrus xPoncirus) hybrid.
I think Ichangquat 672 is highly nucellar. I think Ilya wrote that once.

Yes, Ichangquat 672 doesn't seem easy to cross, not sure if it does well as a pollen parrent, but as female parent it's not easy.
Ilya has crossed Ichangquat 672 with Citrumelo, so at least it's possible to use it.

[mikkel]

I remembered it wrong. Sorry!  Ilya wrote that it has few seeds and is often seedless, but the seedlings are all different.

https://citrusgrowersv2.proboards.com/post/5121/thread

[Ilya11]

For the moment I have only two seedlings of 5starX672 that survived and growing well, but no flowers up to now.
In 2018 I was able to get   a dozen of zygotic seedlings of NagamaiXIVIA. 
Two of them  were rather strong.

[Skandiberg]

Hi Peep,

I think your original idea is a very good one. The dormancy of kumquat is a really useful feature at all the zone pushing sites like mine. We have very hectical winters and springs with great ups and downs within even a week. So kumquats have a lot of of benefits to offer in that regard.

If you allow me a few ideas, I would mention creating an improved, new Yuzuquat. You have Yuzu N30 that would act as a father, and Marumi or Nameiwa as the mother. By improved, I mean improved taste. Its hardiness may not be too much or any better than the original Yuzuquat's hardiness but its possible flavour might make it a worthy hybrid for zone 8. As far as I know, Marumi tends to be more zygotic than Nameiwa while these two are probably the hardiest of all edible kumquats. If you want to be sure, use both kumquats and if their flowering overlaps that of Yuzu N30, do the crosses also the other way. I haven't read details of Yuzu N30 in that regard as a mother. You might be the one to find out if it's zygotic at any degree or not. (Sorry if it's already known.) That would be a useful information to know. So you could reach two goals if you did that cross both ways.

My second suggestion came to me from one of your recent posts. If you haven't sold your Enzo yet, you can try to use its pollen on the kumquats next spring. In this case I would suggest Marumi because that's the round one which resembles a classic Citrus fruit more. Enzo and Marumi are so far away from each other that this cross would result in very exciting and probably surprising hybrids. Their hardiness might be questionnable on paper but who knows.

Another worthy cross would be a mandarinquat. Changsha or Keraji would probably lead to a hardier one, while the best tasting Satsuma you have could result something like Nippon but maybe better. An early variety might be handy as a father if you have any early Satsuma which is not completely sterile.

And what if you applied Ichangquat pollen on Marumi/Nameiwa? I think that can be good, too.

Or how about creating a citrandarinquat? We know citrangequats like Thomasville. But citrandarins generally have a milder and less invasive taste than citranges because mandarins round off a bit more of the Poncirus taste while oranges sometimes even add a certain kind of bitterness. So a US852 or a US812 as a father may result in a fairly good tasting and quite hardy hybrid.

And my final suggestion for today is in fact a question that came to me recently. Does any of you know a blood kumquat? I don't. But I think it would be fun to create a hybrid like that. So if you have any of the red varieties please try it. Moro or Amoa8 could be a safe bet for intense color. But if you want to orient towards hardiness, maybe a Corsican blood orange is the right father. That's the hardiest of any blood Citrus that I have heard of. Clementino rubino is not always the same dark red. However if you want to get really wild, use Arcobal as father if you have it. That's the cross between Meyer and Doppio Sanguigno blood orange. It has intense flesh colour and beautiful red stripes on the outside while the taste is sweet and lemony as well. That hybrid surely wouldn't be hardy but I imagine its taste would be awesome. It sounds like a fun project.

I myself have been thinking a lot of all the crosses I want to make with my future plants. Some of the above are among them. But that's still a couple years ahead. And you already have some of the varieties I want. So if you are interested in any of these crosses, please feel free to give them a try. I would be really curious to see what becomes of them. A few of them may be uninspiring, useless or even silly for you, but honestly the thought of a blood kumquat really intrigues me.

[bussone]

And my final suggestion for today is in fact a question that came to me recently. Does any of you know a blood kumquat? I don't. But I think it would be fun to create a hybrid like that. So if you have any of the red varieties please try it. Moro or Amoa8 could be a safe bet for intense color.

If you want a red kumquat, you can consider finger limes as a crossing partner.

Sunrise Limes are a kumquat hybrid.
https://www.fruittreecottage.com.au/products/australian-sunrise-lime-finger-lime-hybrid

Red finger limes have been crossed with mandarins yielding a red fruit.
https://www.fruittreecottage.com.au/products/australian-red-centre-lime-finger-lime-hybrid
https://www.logees.com/red-finger-lime-citrus-australasica-sanguinea.html

[Skandiberg]

Now that's a really interesting idea.