Anybody grow Citremon (Lemon x trifoliate)

[LBurford]

Has anyone grown this hybrid? I stole the pic off the internet. I saw a video on YouTube at Stan Mckenzie's house and saw his tree. I ordered a small one from him. He said his has survived 8 degrees.   

[Nick C]

I have a tree in ground for a few years now. Grows like a weed, super thorny but has yet to flower

[Mulberry0126]

I have grafted trees going into their second year and already flowering, although I don't expect them to hold anything so soon. The plants are very vigorous and surprisingly cold hardy for a lemon hybrid. Mine were unscathed after 10°F and 66 hours below freezing in an open field.

[LBurford]

The ones he had were rooted twigs from his big tree. I wonder if they will bloom as quickly as a grafted one. Is it according to where on the tree the cutting was taken?

[Millet]

Yes, the higher up on the tree the twig will have a higher node count to start it out.

[brian]

How does it taste?

[vnomonee]

I grafted one a couple weeks ago, just waiting to see a take. I grafted it onto Taitri which is inside my greenhouse so it will be protected from extreme lows by a small space heater through winter.

[LBurford]

I grafted one a couple weeks ago, just waiting to see a take. I grafted it onto Taitri which is inside my greenhouse so it will be protected from extreme lows by a small space heater through winter.

The guy on the YouTube video made out like it tasted good and made the comment that you could make lemon pies with it but who knows for sure.

[Mulberry0126]

I grafted one a couple weeks ago, just waiting to see a take. I grafted it onto Taitri which is inside my greenhouse so it will be protected from extreme lows by a small space heater through winter.

The guy on the YouTube video made out like it tasted good and made the comment that you could make lemon pies with it but who knows for sure.

It's not a bad fruit, I prefer it 90% ripe and yellow, the trifoliate flavor gets stronger when it's riper and orange-colored. It has an herbal component, kind of like rosemary, so we've used the fruit successfully in cooking and in a lemon pie. The zest and albedo can be bitter though so take care processing it otherwise the bitterness is very apparent.

[1rainman]

Pointless. A sour orange can be used exactly like a lemon no off flavors high cold tolerance high disease tolerance. Lemons are very cold sensitive except meyer. It would make more sense to do trifoliate x sour orange then cross that again with a sour orange and so on. Maybe throw meyer into the mix. Or at this point cross sundragon into the mix just dilute the trifoliate or dont use it at all just focus on sour oranges.

[Lauta_hibrid]

I have my citremon. I created it, it's a Genoa lemon x Poncirus. It hasn't flowered yet, but I'd like to be able to make better lemon-type mixes with Poncirus. For me, a good mix would be to use citremon (with a lot of lemon scent, the fruits would have to be examined) and cross it with Taitri (since they use Taiwanica like a lemon). So it would be 1/4 lemon (for the aroma), 1/4 Taiwanica (like a resistant lemon-type fruit, also because the bitter orange is the parent of the lemon), and 1/2 Poncirus. Ilya made Morton x 5 stars and said that this offspring was more resistant than its parents... that's good information.

[vnomonee]

Taitri already exists (taiwanica x poncirus) but it is VERY acidic more than any lemon. The tree is super hardy though. Maybe this citremon can be crossed further or with a taitri to give it more lemon qualities and become less seedy. The taitri is very seedy.

Pointless. A sour orange can be used exactly like a lemon no off flavors high cold tolerance high disease tolerance. Lemons are very cold sensitive except meyer. It would make more sense to do trifoliate x sour orange then cross that again with a sour orange and so on. Maybe throw meyer into the mix. Or at this point cross sundragon into the mix just dilute the trifoliate or dont use it at all just focus on sour oranges.

[1rainman]

The sour oranges I have encountered are used as root stock. Exactly like an orange not super seedy but sour same as a lemon not any more acidic. They are used in mexico and other places like lemons. They make an orange aid which is like lemon aid out of them. Maybe they create more acidic crosses. But they are very cold hardy and disease resistant. Its usually sour orange or swingle which is trifoliate x grapefruit which are typical root stock but the swingle has that nasty poncirus flavor.

[bussone]

Pointless. A sour orange can be used exactly like a lemon no off flavors high cold tolerance high disease tolerance.

There's a difference between sour orange and its zone-9 hardiness and citremon with its 7/8 hardiness.

[1rainman]

Im saying I dont know why a lemon would be used instead of sour orange. It seems odd that the sour orange makes more acidic crosses or whatever.

[a_Vivaldi]

Im saying I dont know why a lemon would be used instead of sour orange. It seems odd that the sour orange makes more acidic crosses or whatever.

Sour orange has a different flavor profile than lemon, and it shows up in their progeny, citremon doesn't smell or taste like a citrange. Lemon can be quite vigorous and large growing, more so then sour orange, which can be useful traits to breed into trifoliate. Lemon and lemon hybrids like Meyer lemon are much easier to root than most citrus, which is also a useful trait. And lemon has some disease resistance that sour orange doesn't have, in particular regarding HLB to which sour and sweet oranges are incredibly susceptible.

[bussone]

Im saying I dont know why a lemon would be used instead of sour orange. It seems odd that the sour orange makes more acidic crosses or whatever.

Very different flavor profiles.

I agree that sour oranges are exactly that, but I would never confuse a lemon rind for a sour orange rind, or vice versa.

[countryboy1981]

Pointless. A sour orange can be used exactly like a lemon no off flavors high cold tolerance high disease tolerance.

There's a difference between sour orange and its zone-9 hardiness and citremon with its 7/8 hardiness.

My seed grown sour orange came out nearly unscathed other than defoliating at 10 degrees this past winter.  Record cold here for that day.

[a_Vivaldi]

The important question would be, good long was it 10 F and how soon did it get back above freezing?

I also had 10 F this winter. I lost several citrus including trifoliate. But we stayed below freezing for days and had our coolest January since the 1980s.

[bussone]

The important question would be, good long was it 10 F and how soon did it get back above freezing?

I also had 10 F this winter. I lost several citrus including trifoliate. But we stayed below freezing for days and had our coolest January since the 1980s.

I was under 10 F for 5 hours and under freezing for 5 days here, both in mid to late January. Had another 5-day sub-freezing stretch that wasn't quite as cold in late February, too.

Covered with with 40w lights, my Prague and (surprisingly!) my unknown Madison citrange did well, and the Thomasville did pretty well. [revising on the Thomasville -- this one may die] (All planted in 2024) My poncirus (from seed in 2023) was totally uncovered and in an unprotected spot in the front yard. Zero damage.

This is 7a. I tend to suspect a sour orange wouldn't have survived this, even mature.

[1rainman]

But 28 degrees can kill a lemon. They are wimps. Can barely handle 32. So cross sour orange with poncirus until the nasty poncirus flavor is bred out but maybe still more cold hardy than sour orange though neither one of them seem overly acidic not any more than a lemon would be. The flavor is diffetent but its not a bad trade off orange flavor instead of lemon flavor. Though I would just grow in a pot if I were up north I wouldnt even mess with poncirus.

[poncirsguy]

Harvey lemon goes down to 10F.

[manfromyard]

Harvey lemon goes down to 10F.

Nope on that. I've had it twice and it's died where my meyer lemons survived.
I rate it to 24 or 26 F. It's intermediate between the Meyer and Eureka imo..

[LBurford]

I got my Citremon and Thomasville in from Stan. Beautiful, grafted trees. I hope they do good. I potted them on larger pots and will grow them a year in them before I plant outside.

[Till]

I ate many sour oranges in Sizily. Bitter inside and definitely not like Lemons. Often not much juice. Yet an interesting aroma of its own.
It is commonly held that sour oranges are crosses between a mandarin and pumelo and that lemon is a cross of sour orange (female) and zitron (male). The typical lemon aroma comes from the zitron and perhaps also from the pumelo part of sour oranges. All that is so say that lemons are highly heterozygous. I unfortunatelly haven't experience with citremons but it is very improbable that all Citremons taste similar. Even pure poncirus has from type to type great differences in taste. Poncirus hybrids in general are a wide field from absolutely horrible taste to pretty good taste.

The starting point of our discussion was if somebody has experience with a specific citremon that seems to be extraordinary good. We should take care that we mention the specific citremon we refer to in our taste reviews.

What regards breeding new stuff crosses with kumquat hybrids or yuzu may also be a good idea. I have already crossed limequat with yuzu. Citrumelo crossed with Yuzu exists already. There are some ways to approach the typical lemon taste in combination with hardiness. Sour oranges would not be my favourites as they are not very hardy in my climate and are extremly susceptable to root rod as potted plants. I had to through away all because I did not want to root them all anew after each winter.