Citrus > Cold Hardy Citrus
Nansho Daidai and other Taiwanica cultivars
Peep:
I could use some help regarding Taiwanica cultivars.
I bought the Taiwanica from Adavo, expecting the Nansho Daidai, which is known for it's narrow leaves, and this matches their picture and description (although they use pictures from other people / internet) https://www.rakytnik.com/index.php/rostliny/citrusy/hybridni-citrusy/429-c-taiwanica-oe-tan-y-shimado-c-grandis-x-c-reticulata
The leaves on the plant I received are quite round, with wide petioles (see my picture below). So I emailed about it and I got an answer:
Translated from Czech:
--- Quote ---You're right. The Nanshô-daidai variety has narrow leaves: https://www.forestryimages.org/browse/subthumb.cfm?sub=71562
We do not offer this variety. We offer only the original species. He doesn't have narrow leaves:
https://taieol.tw/pages/44601
https://www.lesfruitiers.net/fiche.php?idVariete=1999
--- End quote ---
So it seems their own description on the website is not correct for the cultivar that they sell.
Does anyone know the name of this 'original species' cultivar?
On the web pages he gives I don't really find a name. Translated from the Taiwanese page it says "The difference from the original mother is that the petiole wing of this species is linear and the fruit is 7-9cm." So the plant from Adavo would be the 'original mother' mentioned here.
I also have the Taiwanica from Lenzi, of which I also don't know a cultivar name. But it seems different from the one that I have from Adavo. And Lenzi's Taiwanica leaves also don't seem narrow enough to be the Nansho Daidai.
Plant from Adavo:
Plant from Lenzi:
Newer leaves seem to get larger:
Best regards,
pagnr:
In Australia we have the narrow leaf type of taiwanica, that you were expecting.
It is a very nice looking plant with its narrow foliage and large fruit. The fruit is quite sour.
I have seen it in 3 Citrus arboretums and it is instantly recognisable.
I grew seedlings of it and they are highly true to type, with a just a few variants.
It is possible that the Australian plants came from the same USDA source and it is not the right one.
It wouldn't be the first time the plant in the USDA collection is not exactly right.
On the other hand, the plants I see on the European Citrus nursery sites often don't exactly match what I was expecting to see from that variety.
I think if you can find more information out of Taiwan or Japan it would be a good start.
The plants in the pictures on your post from Adavo and Lenzi look more like Sour Orange, Citrus aurantium.
Peep:
--- Quote ---In Australia we have the narrow leaf type of taiwanica, that you were expecting.
It is a very nice looking plant with its narrow foliage and large fruit. The fruit is quite sour.
I have seen it in 3 Citrus arboretums and it is instantly recognisable.
--- End quote ---
Cool to see it in arboretums. It's very sour indeed, apparently it's considered as not very good fruit, but I also read that with sugar it does make good lemonade style drinks. (And also I though it was maybe interesting to use it for making hybrids.)
--- Quote ---I grew seedlings of it and they are highly true to type, with a just a few variants.
It is possible that the Australian plants came from the same USDA source and it is not the right one.
It wouldn't be the first time the plant in the USDA collection is not exactly right.
On the other hand, the plants I see on the European Citrus nursery sites often don't exactly match what I was expecting to see from that variety.
I think if you can find more information out of Taiwan or Japan it would be a good start.
--- End quote ---
I'm always happy to know the exact name of a cultivar I have, but I guess I just need to find a real Nansho Daidai (narrow leaves) and then taste them all. I already have over 50 citrus plants and I'd acutally like to get that number down, but if I can't find information to compare cultivars, then I can't help but to get them and eliminate the least interesting ones myself ::)
I am sure that the narrow leaf Nansho Daidai is present in Europe, but not many nurseries would have it. I'll try to find someone for scions.
--- Quote ---The plants in the pictures on your post from Adavo and Lenzi look more like Sour Orange, Citrus aurantium.
--- End quote ---
Nansho Daidai / Taiwanica is also called 'Sour Orange'. I usually say Bitter Orange for aurantium, but both are correct. I also have a Furrowed Bitter Orange (Citrus aurantium canaliculata), but those leaves look different from both Lenzi's and Adavo's Taiwanica.
Florian:
I wasn't aware that there were different cultivars of C. taiwanica. To me Nansho daidai is just the vernacular name of C. taiwanica.
Anyway, here's C. taiwanica in Eisenhut nursery (their Nr. 171):
vnomonee:
Bigger leaves are probably response to lighting conditions
Tai-tri (taiwanica x trifoliate) has narrow leaves like your plant from Lenzi. Maybe they are selling hybrids or off-types?
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