Citrus > Cold Hardy Citrus
Ichanglemonquat?
Peep:
--- Quote from: poncirsguy on January 20, 2023, 11:54:36 AM ---Why not cross a 0F/-18C Marumi kumquat with a 10F Harvey lemon.
--- End quote ---
Marumi seems like it could be interesting, although it seems there is no good consensus on the hardiness of it. Here in Europe, and mainly in France, the Nameiwa has more fame for being a good hardy kumquat. I've not heard much of Marumi so I didn't think it was something interesting. For example, this French nursery lists Nameiwa at -15 https://www.pepiniereagrumesdeprovence.fr/kumquats/101-nameiwa.html and Marumi at -12 https://www.pepiniereagrumesdeprovence.fr/kumquats/98-kumquat-marumi.html, same as Nagami, Meiwa and Fukushu. Of course this doesn't mean that it's correct, but this information seems to be the trend in EU or in France.
I asked Eyeckr about it because he has had both. He says Nameiwa and Marumi are close, possibly Marumi a little bit hardier if he had to guess. I'll give Marumi a chance maybe, if someone can help me with a scion [EU], send me a message!
I think 10F for Harvey Lemon might be a bit optimistic (like 0F for Marumi as well), and I'm not sure if this cultivar exists in Europe. I myself don't think Harvey Lemon would necessarily give better chances at a good result than Ichang Lemon.
SoCal2warm:
--- Quote from: Peep on January 20, 2023, 08:50:11 AM ---The Ichangquat I have should be the same one as Ilya's, which for him has survived unprotected in zone 8a for 15 years or more (I don't know exactly when he got it). Which included temperatures down to -16°C I believe (3.2°F).
It seems the Ichangquat cultivar 6-7-2 is the one that is most cold hardy, while others aren't as much. Although the one we have in Europe is an F2 from 672, so I'm not sure how the US and EU versions of 672 would compare.
--- End quote ---
Yes, the seeds came from Ilya, but one thing to consider is that Ilya's tree is growing in a very protected spot on the inner corner of two high walls of his house.
Another factor might be the climate. I suspect there may be something a little bit different about Europe (specifically France's) climate compared to the U.S. PNW. Although the PNW region and France are very similar, zone 8a in Europe may translate to more stable temperatures with fewer ups and downs than in the U.S. I am not sure. It seems many have had more success with varieties in zone 8a Europe than I have had with those varieties here.
Ilya also lives not too far from Paris, which might further be helping, preventing things from getting too cold.
--- Quote from: Peep on January 20, 2023, 08:50:11 AM ---What kind of temperatures did you have when your plants got wiped out?
--- End quote ---
It went down to almost 12 degrees F, maybe only 14 degrees F (let's say -11 degrees C ), buried in a foot of snow.
This was preceded by a clear sunny day. Perhaps the sun is a little bit more intense here than in Europe, and that is enough to warm the leaves too much, maybe reducing the level of protective dormancy? The latitude on the planet is not much different (47 degrees north here compared to 48.8 in Paris, which could still make some significant difference), but perhaps the skies here can get a little bit more clear sometimes than in Europe during the winter. I am not sure, it is very likely I am just overthinking this.
Some varieties that seem like they may be able to make it here gradually decline year after year until they finally die.
Peep:
--- Quote from: SoCal2warm on January 21, 2023, 03:33:52 PM ---Yes, the seeds came from Ilya, but one thing to consider is that Ilya's tree is growing in a very protected spot on the inner corner of two high walls of his house.
Another factor might be the climate. I suspect there may be something a little bit different about Europe (specifically France's) climate compared to the U.S. PNW. Although the PNW region and France are very similar, zone 8a in Europe may translate to more stable temperatures with fewer ups and downs than in the U.S. I am not sure. It seems many have had more success with varieties in zone 8a Europe than I have had with those varieties here.
Ilya also lives not too far from Paris, which might further be helping, preventing things from getting too cold.
It went down to almost 12 degrees F, maybe only 14 degrees F (let's say -11 degrees C ), buried in a foot of snow.
--- End quote ---
Yeah climate might be quite different, a foot of snow also doesn't even happen here. I'm on the edge between zone 8A and 8B as well, and even though Ilya's might be in a good protected spot, temperatures don't go as low where I am when compared to his location.
Keep in mind though that my Ichangquat should be exactly the same as Ilya's, as far as I know, he supplied scions to Adavo and now I got scions from Adavo. So with seedlings it's more of a gamble. Would be interesting to know if it would have made a difference if yours was from a scion from 672 instead of a seed, but we'll never know. At least it seems there is a fair bit of difference in hardiness between Ichangquat seedlings, because other (F1?) Ichangquats have been said to not be as hardy I think.
SoCal2warm:
I think being on the border between 8a/8b may have some big advantages over being in zone 8a when growing many of these varieties (like Yuzu, Ichang papeda, Ichang lemon, Ichangquat, etc) At least that is the feeling I have from my experience. These varieties ALMOST would have been able to grow well here if it had just been a very small amount less cold.
The U.S. South is a totally different situation, however. I suspect being farther north with a shorter growing season, the plants cannot handle as low temperatures or are not as easily able to recover from damage. From reports I have read, it seems like many people in the U.S. South are able to grow these varieties in their zone 8a, sometimes even on the border between 7b/8a.
Peep:
--- Quote from: poncirsguy on January 20, 2023, 11:54:36 AM ---Why not cross a 0F/-18C Marumi kumquat with a 10F Harvey lemon.
--- End quote ---
I have received a Marumi kumquat (https://agrumilenzi.it/en/negozio/kumquats/kumquatsen/round-kumquat-fortunella-japonica/)
This one is grafted on Carrizo and the Nameiwa I received some time ago is on C35 so in a few weeks I'll graft both onto Poncirus and then I'll be able to see how they compare in handling the cold. Might take a few years for results though :p
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