Grafting Sabara vs. Other Jabos

[Sir Graftalot]

I have grafted a bunch of jabo scions (Pingo de Mel, Olho de Boi, and a couple of Sabaras from multiple sources) to a fairly sized Sabara rootstock. Everything is starting to push (the PDM is shooting to the moon), but none of the Sabara grafts are showing any signs of life (aside from cambium scratch test still shows green). What's the deal with grafting Sabaras? Do they normally take longer than other varieties to push?

[Jaboticaba45]

It could very well be graft placement.
Multigraft trees can favor ones towards the top.
No one really grafts sabara but I assume you got mature scions to try to speed up production which is good.

[Sir Graftalot]

It could very well be graft placement.
Multigraft trees can favor ones towards the top.
No one really grafts sabara but I assume you got mature scions to try to speed up production which is good.

Yes, those are mature woods. I have sabara cuttings grafted all over, even on a red. None of the sabara grafts are doing anything; everything else seems to be fine.

[gnappi]

My Sabara seedlings took FOREVER (~10 years )to fruit. Both were 4-5 ft. tall when they went in ground.

[12Zodiac]

It could very well be graft placement.
Multigraft trees can favor ones towards the top.
No one really grafts sabara but I assume you got mature scions to try to speed up production which is good.

Yes, those are mature woods. I have sabara cuttings grafted all over, even on a red. None of the sabara grafts are doing anything; everything else seems to be fine.

I must have grafted over 20 mature sabra to sabra and not one has taken. The scions ranges from half inch to a twig. I currently have 8 sabra grafted onto 4 sabra trees 2 weeks ago. They are in the shade with small plastic bags covered individually. It’s too soon to tell but from my experience it doesn’t looking promising. Keep in mind I have successfully grafted Grimal, ESAQL, Coronata ect. As a matter of fact can some verify that these two are flowers from my grafted Scarlett.

[K-Rimes]

They take awhile for me too. Don’t get it. Should be great compatibility.

I did a bunch earlier this spring, probably grafted in March, and just pushing now.

[Mike T]

Yes sabara is a difficult scion but a great rootstock. They seem to take Plinias also. It would be worth trying the highest value Plinias like cambuca, inflata, shawi and those other big yellow fruited species in NW S. America. It seems home grown jaboticabas are being divided into types very rapidly and sometimes their species even identified. Even the species appear to be divided way too much. I wouldn't be surprised if the species alone could be rationalised so cauliflora and jabuticaba could be merged and the same goes for aureana and phitrantha. Then we could assign a few other species including coronata to these. Check out how many species are unknown in the wild.

[Jaboticaba45]

Yes sabara is a difficult scion but a great rootstock. They seem to take Plinias also. It would be worth trying the highest value Plinias like cambuca, inflata, shawi and those other big yellow fruited species in NW S. America. It seems home grown jaboticabas are being divided into types very rapidly and sometimes their species even identified. Even the species appear to be divided way too much. I wouldn't be surprised if the species alone could be rationalised so cauliflora and jabuticaba could be merged and the same goes for aureana and phitrantha. Then we could assign a few other species including coronata to these. Check out how many species are unknown in the wild.

Mike, did you hear the news about the plinia genus being broken up?
Plinia sp caipirinha was recently named Guapurium caipirinha
Also some species are moving to myrciariopsis.
Plinia will still exist, but many plants will move genus names.

[shmojojojo]

Mike, did you hear the news about the plinia genus being broken up?
Plinia sp caipirinha was recently named Guapurium caipirinha
Also some species are moving to myrciariopsis.
Plinia will still exist, but many plants will move genus names.

I was wondering about this and how it would affect grafting plinias. I heard Plinia rivularis is staying in the
plinia genus. Does this mean it's impossible to graft rivularis to Sabara, or what I assume is going to be
Guapurium jaboticaba? Has anyone successfully done this? I can't imagine Plinia edulis is going to stay in
the same genus as Sabara, but there have been successful grafts of these two plants, although I hear they
can have issues surviving long term.

12Zodiac, yes those are flowers. Congrats!

[Mike T]

Heya thanks Jab I didn't hear that and I am surprised. I knew it was messy and genetic affiliations were not well reflected in the taxonomy. I suspect this group is a recent radiation unlike say Garcinia and that genera splitting more than what usual genetic separation may have gone down. I better sus this out. Genetic relatedness is a pretty good indicator of grafting compatibility.

[NateTheGreat]

Mike, did you hear the news about the plinia genus being broken up?
Plinia sp caipirinha was recently named Guapurium caipirinha
Also some species are moving to myrciariopsis.
Plinia will still exist, but many plants will move genus names.

I was wondering about this and how it would affect grafting plinias. I heard Plinia rivularis is staying in the
plinia genus. Does this mean it's impossible to graft rivularis to Sabara, or what I assume is going to be
Guapurium jaboticaba? Has anyone successfully done this? I can't imagine Plinia edulis is going to stay in
the same genus as Sabara, but there have been successful grafts of these two plants, although I hear they
can have issues surviving long term.

12Zodiac, yes those are flowers. Congrats!

IIRC rivularis is compatible with edulis, which is compatible with sabara. But rivularis was already considered part of some other genus, not Plinia, last I checked. Something starting with an N or M. Inflata is compatible with sabara too I believe Bellamy showed.

[Jaboticaba45]

If I remember correctly, rivualris is moving to the Myrciariaopsis genus.


Plinia going to Guapurium is a big shift that not everyone is ready for.
Especially when nurseries are labeling sabara as myrciaria cauliflora...It's Plinia jaboticaba var. sabara...

[Mike T]

Have you got the reference for the changes? I don't seem to find anything or an up to date genetic cladogram.

[John Travis]

It could very well be graft placement.
Multigraft trees can favor ones towards the top.
No one really grafts sabara but I assume you got mature scions to try to speed up production which is good.

Yes, those are mature woods. I have sabara cuttings grafted all over, even on a red. None of the sabara grafts are doing anything; everything else seems to be fine.

I must have grafted over 20 mature sabra to sabra and not one has taken. The scions ranges from half inch to a twig. I currently have 8 sabra grafted onto 4 sabra trees 2 weeks ago. They are in the shade with small plastic bags covered individually. It’s too soon to tell but from my experience it doesn’t looking promising. Keep in mind I have successfully grafted Grimal, ESAQL, Coronata ect. As a matter of fact can some verify that these two are flowers from my grafted Scarlett.

It might just be the time of year. I usually try to graft After September until mid December and March through May. It's not impossible to have success in the summer months but I found I wasd less successful in the hottest and coldest parts of the year.

[Jaboticaba45]

Have you got the reference for the changes? I don't seem to find anything or an up to date genetic cladogram.

Hello Mike
See this link
https://phytotaxa.mapress.com/pt/article/view/phytotaxa.652.3.3#:~:text=Guapurium%20caipirinha%20(Myrtaceae)%20is%20a,epicarp%20with%20very%20sweet%20pulp

I don’t have links for the others but this already hints the coming change.