Ants, to kill or not to Kill

[FlyingFoxFruits]

I've heard of that method before but for ant mounds that are at the base of a tree you can't do this because it would damage the roots

coconut,

haha that sux!

i have been killing them for a while now...in the greenhouse I have no choice, I must kill them whenever they show up.

but out in the yard there are too many to control...I've been saving some time, money, and exposure to pesticides by letting them live.

Yeah lately I have discovered Red Neck Fire Ants Management.  I just boil hot water, dig the hill two feet down & pour boiling water & covered it.  The Queen get cook & the dead ants attract gecko.  I also used a jiffy clothing steamer to steam kill fire ants nest in my swimming pool paver.  The steam also kill weeds in crack up to four months in winter and three months in summe rains.


in a five gallon or ten gallon boiling water in an hour and ahalf.  I been using these heaters for last 15 years breeding Walkimen Australian Red claw Crayfish during cold spell for my ponds.  Inexpensive bucket heater stainless steel five of them keep a 8,000 gallon pond cozy around 60.😊

[FlyingFoxFruits]

I may have discovered a new organic method for removing (or displacing) a fire ant mound...I'm not sure if the ants died, or if they just switched locations...either way, I'm pleased to have some control over them without having to pay for, or use harmful pesticides.

i was cleaning red jaboticaba skins, and discarded about 1-2lbs of skins right on top of the ant mound (which was at the base of an uvalha tree I have planted in the ground)...it pretty much covered the entire surface their mound. 

I'm not sure if the fruit skins alone were enough to displace or kill the ants, but I believe it may be. 

The reason I'm not sure, is because I also placed enough spanish moss on top of the ant mount to totally smother it (it's a great ground cover if you have this stuff...I use it like mulch...it retains moisture, as it slowly declines and ends up as good organic matter and fertilizer for your tree, while inhibiting weed growth).

and finally a few days ago, I dumped some ashes on top of the whole deal. 

after checking today, there were no ants present...and it was a decent sized mound, about 2ft wide.

if this continues to be an effective method, it might be a great alternative for getting rid of fire ants that are infesting large fruiting containerized specimens, that you would otherwise have to treat with harmful poisons, thus rendering the fruit unfit for consumption (this has been a problem of mine in the past, because I have trees that I'm growing for fruits, in the same areas as my nursery stock, which must all be certified free of ants.... there was no choice but to use pesticide...and I couldn't enjoy the fruits)

[Viking Guy]

We have fun killing our fire ants.

Just find two mounds using two people.  Each of you scoop up a shovel of ants at same time and run them to the opposite mound at same time.

You will have officially declared war between the two colonies.

Now, once they kill off their intruders, they will both send off their warriors to attack the queen of the opposing colony.  At the same time--meaning neither mound has defense.

Both offenses will succeed and both groups of workers will either return home to dead queens or battle in the middle on the way back.

Sugar ants will pollinate flowers and will later come back and bore into the fruit.   Let them pollinate, but then protect the fruits once they've set and begin to mature.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

sounds like fun, unless you are allergic to ants.

also, at some point, I think the ants would just coexist...and would not battle each other to the death in all circumstances.

you may end up fostering a supercolony of ants.

from wiki about fire ant mounds:

"The monogynous red imported fire ant colony’s territorial area and the mound size are positively correlated, which, in turn, is regulated by the colony’s size (number and biomass of workers), distance from neighboring colonies, prey density, and by the colony's collective competitive ability. In contrast, nestmate discrimination among polygynous colonies is more relaxed as workers tolerate conspecific ants alien to the colony, accept other heterozygote queens, and do not aggressively protect their territory from polygyne conspecifics.[29] These colonies might increase their reproductive output as a result of having many queens and the possibility of exploiting greater territories by means of cooperative recruitment and interconnected mounds.[30] Therefore, polygyne workers displayed low aggressive responses toward polygyne non-nestmates because lower aggression results in higher survival. Consequently, the behavior of workers is another reliable factor to characterize both monogyne and polygyne colonies of red imported fire ant, in addition to considering mean worker sizes, density or distance between mounds, number of queens, or molecular assays."

We have fun killing our fire ants.

Just find two mounds using two people.  Each of you scoop up a shovel of ants at same time and run them to the opposite mound at same time.

You will have officially declared war between the two colonies.

Now, once they kill off their intruders, they will both send off their warriors to attack the queen of the opposing colony.  At the same time--meaning neither mound has defense.

Both offenses will succeed and both groups of workers will either return home to dead queens or battle in the middle on the way back.

Sugar ants will pollinate flowers and will later come back and bore into the fruit.   Let them pollinate, but then protect the fruits once they've set and begin to mature.

[sapote]

I have 7 orange trees total but only the two Moro blood oranges that are heavily infested with thousands of Argentinian ants and their scale bugs, and the other trees (Valencias and one Navel)  have much less ants for some reason. I was looking to buy Tanglefoot but the local HD didn’t carry, only offered on-line. So, I ended up trying with Vaseline and I built a one inch wide band around the trunk and the Vaseline viscous was soft enough in 80F temp and it worked great stopping the ants crossing completely. Five hours later, I came out to check and couldn't believe my eyes – the ants had built  bridges over the band with materials they found: sands, small dried grass, sticks,  etc. dumped on the Vaseline. I stirred up the Vaseline to destroy their bridges . It got worse: at night cool the ants just crawled over the harden Vaseline. I don’t know if the Tanglefoot will be any better but I will run out to Walmart in next town to get one. I’m an engineer and these ants can handle every bunch and trick  I throw at them. Anyone have other ideas to share?

Btw, I had tried this: I flooded their colony at the base of the tree with water, then patiently watching for the queens. Notice the plural in queens. I killed more than 25 queens in one colony, but a few weeks later they were back from other colonies nearby. I had not tried any insecticide. For indoor Argentinian issue, I used a homemade liquid solution of water, sugar, and Boric acid power.

Sapote

[sapote]

To keep ants out of trees while the fruit is ripening, rub a ring of Vaseline, about 10 cm wide, around the trunk of the tree. It won't damage the tree, but ants won't walk over it to spoil your fruit.

source:rfca

This might work in tropical warm climate but not in cooler area, even southern Cal -- the ants just walk over the hard Vaseline . Btw, it's better to build 2 or more rings because the ants will try to bridge over the first ring with debris.

[bsbullie]

To keep ants out of trees while the fruit is ripening, rub a ring of Vaseline, about 10 cm wide, around the trunk of the tree. It won't damage the tree, but ants won't walk over it to spoil your fruit.

source:rfca

This might work in tropical warm climate but not in cooler area, even southern Cal -- the ants just walk over the hard Vaseline . Btw, it's better to build 2 or more rings because the ants will try to bridge over the first ring with debris.

In a warm climate the vaseline would most likely liquify and become useless...but does it really surprise anyone considering who posted it.

[nch]

Sapote, you can buy Tangle foot at Armstrong nurseries. It works very well, but you have to change the bands every so often (around once every month or two, for me).

[barath]

For an infestation on a guava tree I first went the borax approach -- made a slurry of borax in a non-clean can of old cat food and left it under the tree -- the ants went for it and were gone in a couple of days.  But I didn't refresh / replace the can, so in a few weeks they were back.  I went the tanglefoot route after that, using masking tape instead of the bands they sell, and it's been fine since -- the ants are no longer farming scale.  (The scale is still there, but it's not bad any more.)

[bsbullie]

Has anyone tried sprinkling diatomaceous earth around the trunk?

[sapote]

Has anyone tried sprinkling diatomaceous earth around the trunk?

It should work if the ground is dry.

sapote

[Viking Guy]

sounds like fun, unless you are allergic to ants.

also, at some point, I think the ants would just coexist...and would not battle each other to the death in all circumstances.

you may end up fostering a supercolony of ants.

from wiki about fire ant mounds:

"The monogynous red imported fire ant colony’s territorial area and the mound size are positively correlated, which, in turn, is regulated by the colony’s size (number and biomass of workers), distance from neighboring colonies, prey density, and by the colony's collective competitive ability. In contrast, nestmate discrimination among polygynous colonies is more relaxed as workers tolerate conspecific ants alien to the colony, accept other heterozygote queens, and do not aggressively protect their territory from polygyne conspecifics.[29] These colonies might increase their reproductive output as a result of having many queens and the possibility of exploiting greater territories by means of cooperative recruitment and interconnected mounds.[30] Therefore, polygyne workers displayed low aggressive responses toward polygyne non-nestmates because lower aggression results in higher survival. Consequently, the behavior of workers is another reliable factor to characterize both monogyne and polygyne colonies of red imported fire ant, in addition to considering mean worker sizes, density or distance between mounds, number of queens, or molecular assays."

We have fun killing our fire ants.

Just find two mounds using two people.  Each of you scoop up a shovel of ants at same time and run them to the opposite mound at same time.

You will have officially declared war between the two colonies.

Now, once they kill off their intruders, they will both send off their warriors to attack the queen of the opposing colony.  At the same time--meaning neither mound has defense.

Both offenses will succeed and both groups of workers will either return home to dead queens or battle in the middle on the way back.

Sugar ants will pollinate flowers and will later come back and bore into the fruit.   Let them pollinate, but then protect the fruits once they've set and begin to mature.

So far, they've all battled to the death.  Sure hope a super colony doesn't form one year.  Only ants I battle now are the super tiny sugar ants bringing aphids up my trees and occasionally boring into my peaches and mangos.

We had a bout with bull ants in a flower bed one year.  They would launch coordinated attacks--very aggressive.  We put granules out for them.  They piled the granules in a stack and went back about their business.  We eventually rid of them with liquid pesticides.  Only time I've resorted to that.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

so both colonies end up killing off each other entirely?

that doesn't make sense from an evolutionary stand point....what is the purpose of fighting the battle?

I have a hard time believing both colonies will be totally wiped out.

[sapote]

Sapote, you can buy Tangle foot at Armstrong nurseries. It works very well, but you have to change the bands every so often (around once every month or two, for me).

Thanks. I called Green Thumb – I like them better than Armstrong and I also wanted to check if they had received any Passion fruit vine this spring yet. They had it. I got one and read the instruction on the container and this made me LOL: spread 1/8” or 1.59mm of it (on a tape or plastic sheet) around the trunk. 1/8” doesn’t sounds funny but 1.59mm does. I imagined a poor soul in a foreign country was using a caliber to make sure he got 1.59mm of this sticky stuff on. How do you change this to make it sounds better, any technical writer here?

Sapote

[Viking Guy]

so both colonies end up killing off each other entirely?

that doesn't make sense from an evolutionary stand point....what is the purpose of fighting the battle?

I have a hard time believing both colonies will be totally wiped out.

I highly doubt the entire colonies wiped, but the mounds in question did.  Totally dormant within 48 hrs.  Survivors probably just move somewhere else.  One thing is for sure, we no longer have fire ants on a couple properties doing this.  Can't say the same for our neighbors.   

[FlyingFoxFruits]

sounds like a fun experiment...I will have to try it out one day...i sure have enough piles....so i dont think there is a risk of creating a supercolony...we already have one if anything.

so both colonies end up killing off each other entirely?

that doesn't make sense from an evolutionary stand point....what is the purpose of fighting the battle?

I have a hard time believing both colonies will be totally wiped out.

I highly doubt the entire colonies wiped, but the mounds in question did.  Totally dormant within 48 hrs.  Survivors probably just move somewhere else.  One thing is for sure, we no longer have fire ants on a couple properties doing this.  Can't say the same for our neighbors.   

[Hollywood]

I have aphid mining problems only with trees that are in partial shade. Can anyone tell me why this is?

[FlyingFoxFruits]

I have aphid mining problems only with trees that are in partial shade. Can anyone tell me why this is?

I believe large non-fruiting trees in your yard can contribute aphids to your fruit trees.

[fisherking73]

So I continue to have problems with one of my sugar apples having lots of mealy bugs. Cleaned them off this morning, and this evening I went to look at the plant and what the hell tons of mealy bugs. But noticed something I never noticed before, swarm of red ants all over the sugar apple.  SOOOOOOOOOOOo to kill or not to kill? Did not see a definitive answer on this thread yet.  If I don't take out the ants, the mealy bugs will continue to return. What can I put/spray at the base of the tree to get rid of the ants, but not harm my tree or possible fruit?

[ScottR]

I've been fighting mealy bugs for years, I've noticed like you I can spry existing mealy buds and come back next day or later in day and find more mealy buds!! So I checked pot's with lip's @ top of pot and underneath that lip all kinds of mealy buds waiting for all clear sign to attack again :-[Also I have wooden structure and they (mealy devils) are in between any where there is a crack or two pcs. of wood meet together. Once you have them very hard to get rid of them without serious chemicals. Good Luck and getting rid of any ant's is a must! I guess I should add that this is in greenhouse attached to house on South side.

[fisherking73]

Mine are just on this ONE tree that is surrounded by other trees and not a ONE mealy bug on them.  Gotta find what I can use to kill ant and not harm my tree or contaminate my future fruit

[fisherking73]

So after several days of blasting them off with the hose, the mealy bugs and ants are relentless.  What can I use to control the ants? They have made home base around base of sugar apple tree. Want something that will not affect my hopefully future sugar apples, nor make them toxic to me. Any suggestions? At wits end.................

[Jbird12345]

here is a really good video to control ant easily and why ants are bad for your tree  https://youtu.be/1dLyJJxbEV8

[greenman62]

I have aphid mining problems only with trees that are in partial shade. Can anyone tell me why this is?

I have 5 loquat saplings
all of them are in full sun, and the growing tips / young growth
get attacked only on the underside of the leaves, and only the leaves that are shaded by other leaves.
and not in the sun.
aphids cant take full sun for some reason i believe.

i have tried Diatomaceous earth, but,
every time it rains (which is twice a week here), it just washes off.

i had an aphid explosion on my milkweed. i just let it go
hoping natural predators would come in, and increase numbers.
now i see some assassin bugs, and the aphids have subsided.

the problem is, i think ants protect their aphids from predators
like assassin bugs.

ants by themselves have never been a problem for me.
they even protect my passionflower from caterpillars.
the passionflower exudes a sweet substance at the leaf nodes
in exchange for protection from the ants.
Must be Italian/ mafia type ants
maybe their names are all Ant-nee

[ScottR]

JBird, thanks for posting video Alex @ Papaya Tree has many videos on different subjects all pertaining to fruit trees! 8)I had not seen this one.