The Tropical Fruit Forum
Citrus => Cold Hardy Citrus => Topic started by: Balance on March 17, 2023, 06:58:59 PM
-
Hi all,
I recently purchased a Prague Citsuma and wanted to see how other members experience with this cultivar has been. I am hopeful that this tree will be able to thrive in an in-ground situation in zone 8b, but have heard that it can be a reluctant grower and wanted to hear if anyone has tips or tricks to help their tree thrive. Any feedback would be appreciated!
-
I am looking for this variety, I've heard that it's ugly, but a survivor.
-
I have two grafts one on pure poncirus and one on tai-tri. The tai-tri grew vigorously.
So far both grafts look alive in zone 7a after lows of 1f and 5f. The one grafted on pure poncirus, 2 years old, grows very slow.
After 1 year the graft on tai-tri is twice the height.
It's said to be a chimera of flying dragon and satsuma, the lanky habit probably comes from the flying dragon. I will update more in the late spring to be sure that they are actually alive.
-
It is completely hardy under my climate, but you should be patient to have its fruits.
The best way is to graft high (~1 meter ) on a strong trunk of poncirus and force upside growth by attaching branches vertically.
It is Satsuma/poncirus chimera, occasionally pushing pure mandarin and pure poncirus (not a FD) twigs.
-
Where did you purchase the Prague Citsuma?
Mike Adams
-
I got mine from Stan McKenzie. It grows really slowly, and it is ugly.
-
I also got mine from Stan, it has yet to ship but I'm quite excited for when it arrives @PDXian, is your tree planted in ground? Do you shelter it at all? We live in similar climates so I'm curious how you're growing yours
-
It's in an unheated greenhouse. About 4 feet tall. I'm going to graft up a few this summer, and then plant it outside.
-
I will also plant mine outdoors once temperatures are a little higher, probably more like mid-spring or the likes. My winters don't often sink any lower than 18F, so I'm pretty hopeful it should be a plant it and forget it type of tree
-
I got some scions from Stan McKenzie a few weeks ago and grafted them on a few greenhouse mandarins, as well as one bud on an outside trifoliate seedling. Not clear which ones have taken yet, but I'll be grafting more onto trifoliate rootstocks next year if any of mine take, and I'll be happy to share any extras at that time with anyone local who wants to join in the trial of this here. Fingers crossed for all of us!
-
here's my 1 year old graft on tai-tri. took the picture at night, but notice some browning on the top growth probably combination of damage from the cold + sun. i sprayed it with some copper fungicide incase the brown spots are fungal.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5QyLb7mj/citsuma.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5QyLb7mj)
-
vnomonee,
Your plant looks very different from Prague that we have here in Europe.
-
The prague in that picture is just the branch that I am holding with my finger, the rest of the plant is tai-tri. The scion shot straight up after grafting it, rootstock is vigorous.
My original plant came from Stan McKenzie. That one is grafted on poncirus, and I took a cutting from this one to graft to the tai-tri it looks like this:
Grew for 1 year:
(https://i.postimg.cc/DJSYNzkJ/prague-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DJSYNzkJ)
Then planted it in the ground:
(https://i.postimg.cc/KKz9KYYq/prague-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKz9KYYq)
Here is another picture with leaves from the graft on the tai-tri, made many single leaves but some bifoliate on the top
outlined in red
(https://i.postimg.cc/F1pXJYFm/prague-on-taitri-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F1pXJYFm)
bifoliate
(https://i.postimg.cc/gXp1xWfn/prague-on-taitri-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gXp1xWfn)
vnomonee,
Your plant looks very different from Prague that we have here in Europe.
-
here's my 1 year old graft on tai-tri. took the picture at night, but notice some browning on the top growth probably combination of damage from the cold + sun. i sprayed it with some copper fungicide incase the brown spots are fungal.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5QyLb7mj/citsuma.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5QyLb7mj)
My Prague also had some cold damage (brown ends) on branches, even though it hadn't been outside at very low temperatures and other plants did not have damage. But my theory is that this is caused by the very soft young growth. The same softness that causes the branches to droop down. My plant had a flush of new growth in late summer so I suspect those bits were still too soft and got damaged because of that. I thought it was interesting, because it can give people a wrong idea when they see the damage, but are also told that it's a very hardy variety.
Here is my plant in July
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8Bv5pft-G_Tq2LV21o6BalSmOjbbQsi5ospv1mYNno6sMBocD2GnfUWz_MIGDNRE5F0x0eDOFW0f4pAHRXCuRd4CvqtxvvMEwWPVA0tFZA-fC9zRcM0MquscxEOotYz7den21knoL_YQqeTWhv5eYme=w530-h943-s-no?authuser=0)
And here it is a few days ago
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8DzklqV5yGbWRWX9njcrwh0ef1fsFnid5pm5MC7H8s6jSFMZ4OP0i6pdpjBU6z6ntJ6UdxwL6AlOg7lxgTq75uCctk-qNiCsuMQ0DteyrtnkfBZRKJ8sAMs-7tXpS-tgxAbWJ8TTw5I6DDs9K9kuxs0=w530-h943-s-no?authuser=0)
-
My prague on taitri is starting to push out. Brown rust looking spots but still very much alive. I did spray with copper fungicide I will have to do it again soon. My prague on poncirus is also pushing out.
(https://i.postimg.cc/N2RJXNMP/20230407-133930.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N2RJXNMP)
-
Looks like at least one of my Prague grafts has taken, hooray!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AJFCJaWtFY9KVnIn4V9uIjTY1ptweTHH1K4sf3Q3wstxC1s30Vx1i831g6Aitv_0SwU_E2Svnz1sLYT3QGtdsV7swK_SToiOZymBSAQfiVY0hAJGIGzXqXdBfUm9XRiYEFom4ZCBaZhpBi_-8a3CBVQY7n2Bvg=w700)
-
My Prag on oncirus is three years in ground in z7 and got passiv fleece protection. I can confirm very high hardiness against very low temperatures but in spring sun protection for days with daysun and nightfrost is necessary. The first two years I took the shading fleece already end of february away and lost some upper smal twigs with bark cracks.
This year I shaded longer and had no damage
-
Oh man thats interesting. I didnt even think about branch damage due to excessive sunlight in the spring before leaves if/when the tree defoliates. I wonder if it would grow better in a 6hr sunlight situation with more of the intense sun coming in the early morning. Thanks for the info!
-
early sunlight is only a problem in combination with nightfrosts. If you don' t have night frost in spring it s no problem. If you have night frosts later sun is better, when the air is warm and small twigs not frozen anymore. Or as I do, giving shade to the plant until the nightfrezees are over in later spring.
-
Update
Prague on tai tri, might have a couple of flowers?
(https://i.postimg.cc/SXXZztTY/20230508-162025-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXXZztTY)
(https://i.postimg.cc/TLgCt5XR/20230508-162033-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TLgCt5XR)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XrY1nv98/20230508-162038-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XrY1nv98)
(https://i.postimg.cc/v42qTdzd/20230508-162208.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v42qTdzd)
Prague on poncirus
(https://i.postimg.cc/ThX6fr1J/20230508-162317-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ThX6fr1J)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z90QxqRR/20230508-162320-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z90QxqRR)
-
I'm sad to report that my tree ended up dying from extremely preventable causes. In my excitement, I neglected to protect it from sun immediately after unboxing, resulting in the tree being absolutely scorched on the sun-facing side. I brought it indoors after realizing my mistake and was at first hopeful it might pull through, but it has since become a desiccated, dried out twig, so much for that. Guess I'll be trying again next year. :-\
-
I'm sorry to hear that. I've damaged many plants by not acclimating properly. It's a pain to do but very necessary.
Is your rootstock still alive? How are you with grafting. If you'd like I can mail you a small cutting once the limbs harden a bit more.
-
I'm sad to report that my tree ended up dying from extremely preventable causes. In my excitement, I neglected to protect it from sun immediately after unboxing, resulting in the tree being absolutely scorched on the sun-facing side. I brought it indoors after realizing my mistake and was at first hopeful it might pull through, but it has since become a desiccated, dried out twig, so much for that. Guess I'll be trying again next year. :-\
It happens :( In the interest of normalizing unfortunate choices: I had like my best thirty seedlings of Kito yuzu wiped out by one bad day in the greenhouse where things got up to 50ºC. It's a new greenhouse, so I hadn't nailed down the ventilation/cooling yet, and I put off potting up those seedlings the night before because I didn't think the next day would be significantly different sun-wise. It was. (I also nearly lost handful of red lime hybrids to 45ºC the week prior, but I solved that problem with misters.) I hope you have better luck next year.
-
I'm sorry to hear that. I've damaged many plants by not acclimating properly. It's a pain to do but very necessary.
Is your rootstock still alive? How are you with grafting. If you'd like I can mail you a small cutting once the limbs harden a bit more.
I have a trifoliata that I've kept for novelty's sake, but I am unfortunately quite inexperienced with grafting. I've watched many grafting videos, including citrus specific ones, but have never really attempted to do so. I appreciate your offer but fear that I'd fail to graft properly, I should probably try to practice with some lower stakes varieties, lol
-
I'm sorry to hear that. I've damaged many plants by not acclimating properly. It's a pain to do but very necessary.
Is your rootstock still alive? How are you with grafting. If you'd like I can mail you a small cutting once the limbs harden a bit more.
I have a trifoliata that I've kept for novelty's sake, but I am unfortunately quite inexperienced with grafting. I've watched many grafting videos, including citrus specific ones, but have never really attempted to do so. I appreciate your offer but fear that I'd fail to graft properly, I should probably try to practice with some lower stakes varieties, lol
You could just practice grafting the trifoliate buds and branches back onto itself until you feel confident enough. I started grafting with avocados a few years ago and have grafted a number of other things successfully since then. Get good parafilm and a nice sharp blade, and that will go a long way toward success.
With citrus I've done both cleft and T-bud, and have had better success with the cleft graft, but both work OK. I think my fingers are too clumsy for handling and cutting single buds.
-
I'm sorry to hear that. I've damaged many plants by not acclimating properly. It's a pain to do but very necessary.
Is your rootstock still alive? How are you with grafting. If you'd like I can mail you a small cutting once the limbs harden a bit more.
I have a trifoliata that I've kept for novelty's sake, but I am unfortunately quite inexperienced with grafting. I've watched many grafting videos, including citrus specific ones, but have never really attempted to do so. I appreciate your offer but fear that I'd fail to graft properly, I should probably try to practice with some lower stakes varieties, lol
Thanks, this is some solid advice, I'll wait until the latest growth has hardened off a bit later in the season and try my hand at grafting.
-
My hands shake too. I t-Bud but I leave the leaf on so I can manipulate the bud into position. I wrap the graft above and below then cut the leaf off and cover.
-
It is Satsuma/poncirus chimera, occasionally pushing pure mandarin and pure poncirus (not a FD) twigs.
The prague chimera also gives twigs of poncirus with shinny skin fruits.