Loquats that can survive the desert heat

[snowjunky]

Fall planting is the best planning

[pagnr]

I am in inland Australia, it is regularly 35 to 40'c plus here , if not 45'c ocasionally. Loquats are fairly common, generally visible from the street so fairly exposed urban sites.
Require summer irrigation, but seem fairly tough.
How do your conditions in Phoenix AZ compare ?

[snowjunky]

Julys in Phoenix are usually between 105F to 120F so 40C to 49C. 
Humidity lows between 5% to 20% unless we get the monsoons.
I guess that would be January in Australia.

Whenever I used to google for a rare tropical fruit tree in the US, Daley's Nursery always shows up.
Drives me crazy! 

[pagnr]

We had a few one off 47'c here over the years, Yes December January and February.
Thats why Santa ditches the sleigh for a surfboard when he gets to Australia.
Recently haven't had a long run of 40 plus like a few years back, not complaining.
This year only a good few 40 ish days so far, the nights should start cooling soon so not thinking too many more.

Daley's always shows up, they will be glad to hear that,
possibly it's because they have a Forum ( like this one ) on their website.

[snowjunky]

It drove me crazy because only Daley's would have those rare fruit trees so it was out of my reach

[WaterFowler]

I've given up on loquats here in the Coachella Valley. Like the others in Phoenix have said, they do great until July rolls around, then they turn into crispy critters. I planted a Champagne and a Big Jim, as well as dozens of seedlings. One of our drivers in LA brings me "Nisperos" from his house every year, and I plant a few every year in different locations but they never survive the summer. Same goes with Avocados. Although one rancher I know has a 12 year old, near 20 foot avocado tree, that one of his workers planted next to a medjool date palm. It's never thrown a fruit one though.

[snowjunky]

Avocados are much harder to grow than loquats in Phoenix.

[mangoba]

I've given up on loquats here in the Coachella Valley. Like the others in Phoenix have said, they do great until July rolls around, then they turn into crispy critters. I planted a Champagne and a Big Jim, as well as dozens of seedlings. One of our drivers in LA brings me "Nisperos" from his house every year, and I plant a few every year in different locations but they never survive the summer. Same goes with Avocados. Although one rancher I know has a 12 year old, near 20 foot avocado tree, that one of his workers planted next to a medjool date palm. It's never thrown a fruit one though.

Give it an other try on a Quince rootstock.

[snowjunky]

I've given up on loquats here in the Coachella Valley. Like the others in Phoenix have said, they do great until July rolls around, then they turn into crispy critters. I planted a Champagne and a Big Jim, as well as dozens of seedlings. One of our drivers in LA brings me "Nisperos" from his house every year, and I plant a few every year in different locations but they never survive the summer. Same goes with Avocados. Although one rancher I know has a 12 year old, near 20 foot avocado tree, that one of his workers planted next to a medjool date palm. It's never thrown a fruit one though.

Give it an other try on a Quince rootstock.

Is there good reason for trying quince rootstock?  Or just why not try it ain't got nothing to lose?

[WaterFowler]

I've given up on loquats here in the Coachella Valley. Like the others in Phoenix have said, they do great until July rolls around, then they turn into crispy critters. I planted a Champagne and a Big Jim, as well as dozens of seedlings. One of our drivers in LA brings me "Nisperos" from his house every year, and I plant a few every year in different locations but they never survive the summer. Same goes with Avocados. Although one rancher I know has a 12 year old, near 20 foot avocado tree, that one of his workers planted next to a medjool date palm. It's never thrown a fruit one though.

Give it an other try on a Quince rootstock.

I've waved the white flag on loquats and while they are tasty, I don't like them better than the other trees I'm trying to get established or plan on putting in the ground

[SaltwaterTx]

Very good forum topic and very useful information

[sc4001992]

Here's my follow up photos of the two remaining seedlings. These were planted at the end of May 2021. I'm sure if I had separated the two a few months ago into a larger pot they would be even taller. I plan to let these two grow until they fruit since it is from my KT9-Lindsey fruits. These seedlings are much taller than the Peluche seedlings planted at the same time in another tub.

[CeeJey]

Give it an other try on a Quince rootstock.

Yeah, I was gonna ask if anyone else had tried this in Phoenix. There's several varieties of quince including the local one you can get at the Tucson natives nursery that can take all seasons out here (I have one in my back yard) but I'm wondering if the grafts would make it through the summer.

[mangoba]

Give it an other try on a Quince rootstock.

Is there good reason for trying quince rootstock?  Or just why not try it ain't got nothing to lose?

What we know for sure is the dwarfing effect on Quince rootstock, but I suggested it since Loquats are thriving in very arid and hot areas in the Mediterranean despite very poor soil and extreme summer heat. I don't really have concrete evidence though.

[snowjunky]

Interesting because dwarfing should be bad for heat tolerance, since vigor helps overcome heat stress.
For example rootstocks for peach and citrus that do well in Phoenix must have two main traits:
1. tolerance of high soil pH & salts,
2. is vigorous and produce a standard size tree.

Peaches on dwarfing rootstocks like Citation and citrus on Flying Dragon suck here.
Peaches on Lovell or Nemaguard and citrus on C35 suck less.
Viking and Hansen are best for peaches in AZ.
Sour Orange and C22 are great for citrus.

Phoenix is probably hotter than the Mediterranean areas where they grow loquats.

[JCorte]

Interesting because dwarfing should be bad for heat tolerance, since vigor helps overcome heat stress.
For example rootstocks for peach and citrus that do well in Phoenix must have two main traits:
1. tolerance of high soil pH & salts,
2. is vigorous and produce a standard size tree.

Peaches on dwarfing rootstocks like Citation and citrus on Flying Dragon suck here.
Peaches on Lovell or Nemaguard and citrus on C35 suck less.
Viking and Hansen are best for peaches in AZ.
Sour Orange and C22 are great for citrus.

Phoenix is probably hotter than the Mediterranean areas where they grow loquats.

Where do you get trees on Viking and Hansen rootstock?  I tried to source Viking rootstocks and couldn't find it anywhere.

Janet

[CeeJey]

Might still be worth an experiment with the localized quince variety given its tolerance for everything else that Arizona can throw at it (crap soil, high ph, salt, heat, cold).

[snowjunky]

Fourwindsgrower started selling most of their potted stone fruits like peaches and plums on Viking.
Their bareroots are still on Citation & Nemaguard.

Hansen is only available locally from one nursery in Phoenix, which also has the C22.

[snowjunky]

Might still be worth an experiment with the localized quince variety given its tolerance for everything else that Arizona can throw at it (crap soil, high ph, salt, heat, cold).

True, you never know.

[JCorte]

Fourwindsgrower started selling most of their potted stone fruits like peaches and plums on Viking.
Their bareroots are still on Citation & Nemaguard.

Hansen is only available locally from one nursery in Phoenix, which also has the C22.

Thank you! 

[snowjunky]

 

[snowjunky]

Persimmons also don't like the desert heat and soil.  If you try to grow persimmon in the desert I'd go with Chocolate.
Chocolate is more heat tolerant than all the other persimmons I’ve tried to keep alive in Phoenix.
I grafted it on D. virginiana rootstock because it's better suited for the bad desert soil.
Virginiana root system is more fibrous and tolerates drought and soil salinity better than lotus and kaki.
More nurseries sell persimmon trees on virginiana rootstock now.

[snowjunky]

The only problem is finding another variety to pollinate the Chocolate that is also tough.
I'm using Coffee Cake to pollinate my Chocolate, but it's large leaves are tender and gets burnt by the Phoenix heat and sun.
Chocolate has smaller tougher waxier leaves.  Coffee Cake also breaks dormancy later so more likely to get burnt by a heatwave.
If you know of another tough persimmon variety with male flowers please share.

[drymifolia]

CeeJey & Snowjunky, I think your best chance for a loquat to do well is to start by growing a lot of seedlings and let the strongest one (still alive) survive the heat as they grow to be 1 year old seedlings.

I'm trying that with some other stuff but sourcing that many loquat seeds sounds like a pita.

I saw that Kaz graciously offered to help with seeds, but just thought I'd drop another option here in case you want to add seeds from another source, for more genetic diversity. Sheffield's sells them, here's their pricing:

Items are priced on a curve, you can buy any 'bulk quantity' up to what we have in stock, some examples are:

• 1 packet (~ 14 seeds)$8.95
• 8 oz (~ 165 seeds)$36.21
• 1 lb (~ 330 seeds)$64.50
• 1 kg (~ 728 seeds)$128.00
• 10 lb (~ 3300 seeds)$567.60

I ordered some Morus nigra seeds from them just last week, but haven't ordered before.

[CeeJey]

I'm still interested in the seedling hardiness experiment, but I'm also working on getting some sonoran quince rootstock to try to graft onto next year. Might as well put the endless root suckers to work.

Meantime I have another grafted Oliver that I'm going to attempt to weather through the summer, that variety is the one I've come the closest to babying through the summer. Gonna just surround it with moringas and tree okra this time and let a bunch of sweet potato vines run underneath for the additional insulation, pretty sure that the heat from the black shade cloth was what killed it last time. It actually perked up today despite the spike in heat, might be that more careful ph adjustment this year is also helping.