californian cherimoya

[albert84]

hello,

I am french, so excuse for my english which is not very good, but school years are now very far from me. I would like to talk with people who grow cherimoya in california, because I think some californian weathers are close to my weather :

I live in south-east of france (near marseille), with a mediteranean weather (2800 years of sun per year), but far from sea (30 km), so in summer some days I have 104°F/40°C the hotest days, and in winter some years I can have 17°F/-8°C during the night of the coldest days. actually I grow citrus in a frost-free glass greenhouse (33°F/1°C minimum in winter the night of the coldest days). I have a misting device in greenhouse so 104°F/40°C is maximum. so if there are people on this forum who have mediteranean weather in california close to mine greenhouse climate (104°F/40°C maximum in summer and minimum 33°F/1°C in winter) I have several questions :

-do you think in my greenhouse cherimoya can grow good fruits in winter ?

-with 33°F/1°C, will the fruits be damaged or not (I don't know in california, but in spain cherimoya fruits come from october to march, so mainly during winter) ?

-what spacing do you use between cherimoya ? 7 meters or more ?

-I know only the spanich fino de jete which is to me a very good fruit, but do you have in california varieties with a better tast than fino de jete (I heard about "el bumpo") ?

-do you have in california varieties with less seeds than fino de jete ?

-these californian varietes can tolerate 104°F/40°C in summer ?

-fino de jete has fruits on tree during 6/7 months, from october to march/april, which would be for me the best period to eat cherimoya. is it the same with californian varieties, do you have fruits on trees from october to march/april ?


thank you very much for yous answers.

[spaugh]

Just sprout some seeds and try it, they are easy tomgrow if the weather conditions are correct.  No one knows if you will be successful, you will need to just try.

[albert84]

thank you for your answer.

I have only few places in my greenhouse so I have to choose before planting between fino de jete and some californian cherimoya. can you tell me if with the californian cherimoya like "el bumpo" you have fruits on tree during 6 or 7 months and if the maturaty of the fruits begin around october ? can you also tell me if fruits are damaged or not with 33°F/1°C with californian cherimoyas ?

thank you very much.

[spaugh]

They start bearing fruit around december here.  And go into january and maybe february or longer for people that live further north of san diego. 

I dont think 33F will damage the fruit but I dont know for sure.  It does get into the mid 30s here.  The fruit that stay on the tree longer into winter dont look as good as the first ones that are ready in November and december.  It stays pretty warm here until around January. 

[Oolie]

Pierce is a great tasting variety and early season. Your spacing is sufficient at 7M, but the fruit will likely require hand pollination, especially if in a dry greenhouse, but the misting system could help here. Cherimoyas like a cooler summer and milder winter than what you have, but should be able to manage the extremes if protected/given a nice microclimate. That said, my atemoyas fared much better on the 40+ degree days, even grafted to the same tree. I think it's a great idea for you to experiment with cherimoyas, Pierce is a real winner.

[Si Duong]

I am located in San Franciso bay area. I have very similar to your weather.

In winter, my area 30F is average but some years going down to 28F. I see some ice on the ground and some young tips and leaves got minor burned.

In Summer, this year on June 21st was 103F but last year was 110F. Few growth tips and young leaves got minor burned for some sensitive varieties and some not damaged at all.

I am having more than 20 Cherimoya trees outside without and protection in the winter and they are at least 5 years old now. They are 10 feet apart.

My fruits cycle is from July when most varieties are setting fruits to June of the next year when I harvest my fruits.

Around November when temperature of the day drop below 60F that when all fruits stop growing. They stay almost the same size until around March or April when weather get warm again and they will continue to grow. Cherimoya have lots of big leave canopy so they protect the fruits without any damaged.

There are so many good varieties in California. For Example, Honey Hart, Orton, El Bumbo, Pierce, Booth, Chaffey, Knight, Dr. White......

You should try to grow some cherimoya inside your greenhouse and some outside to find out how well the grow.

Good luck. Happy Gardening.



 

[Orto1978]

Bonjour Albert84,

I live on the south coast of Sardegna and I am growing a few varieties of Cherimoya. My experience so far is that the summer sun and heat needs to be managed for young trees, so providing some shade is a good idea. (fyi same for avocado . Southern Italy has a long tradition, but relatively unknown of Cherimoya culture, especially in Reggio Calabria. There are many good nurseries that have other varieties than fino di jete and will mail to your house. I recently ordered an el bumpo and cumbe from an italian nursery. If you are interested in the websites will post them below. I guess that forum members here can explain better then me ybout winter minimums and damage to trees. Fortunately I have a very mild winter.

Good luck.

https://www.canarius.com/en/plants/fruit-herbs-medicinals/tropical-fruit-plants/

https://www.venditapianteonline.it/

http://www.piantetropicali.com/tropicalsicily/home.php

hello,

I am french, so excuse for my english which is not very good, but school years are now very far from me. I would like to talk with people who grow cherimoya in california, because I think some californian weathers are close to my weather :

I live in south-east of france (near marseille), with a mediteranean weather (2800 years of sun per year), but far from sea (30 km), so in summer some days I have 104°F/40°C the hotest days, and in winter some years I can have 17°F/-8°C during the night of the coldest days. actually I grow citrus in a frost-free glass greenhouse (33°F/1°C minimum in winter the night of the coldest days). I have a misting device in greenhouse so 104°F/40°C is maximum. so if there are people on this forum who have mediteranean weather in california close to mine greenhouse climate (104°F/40°C maximum in summer and minimum 33°F/1°C in winter) I have several questions :

-do you think in my greenhouse cherimoya can grow good fruits in winter ?

-with 33°F/1°C, will the fruits be damaged or not (I don't know in california, but in spain cherimoya fruits come from october to march, so mainly during winter) ?

-what spacing do you use between cherimoya ? 7 meters or more ?

-I know only the spanich fino de jete which is to me a very good fruit, but do you have in california varieties with a better tast than fino de jete (I heard about "el bumpo") ?

-do you have in california varieties with less seeds than fino de jete ?

-these californian varietes can tolerate 104°F/40°C in summer ?

-fino de jete has fruits on tree during 6/7 months, from october to march/april, which would be for me the best period to eat cherimoya. is it the same with californian varieties, do you have fruits on trees from october to march/april ?


thank you very much for yous answers.

[albert84]

They start bearing fruit around december here.  And go into january and maybe february or longer for people that live further north of san diego. 

I dont think 33F will damage the fruit but I dont know for sure.  It does get into the mid 30s here.  The fruit that stay on the tree longer into winter dont look as good as the first ones that are ready in November and december.  It stays pretty warm here until around January.

thank you for your answer. perhaps it's because in spain the weather is less hot in winter than yours that they can keep fruits from september to march on trees. or perhaps they induce a second flowering by removing leafs.

[spaugh]

They start bearing fruit around december here.  And go into january and maybe february or longer for people that live further north of san diego. 

I dont think 33F will damage the fruit but I dont know for sure.  It does get into the mid 30s here.  The fruit that stay on the tree longer into winter dont look as good as the first ones that are ready in November and december.  It stays pretty warm here until around January.

thank you for your answer. perhaps it's because in spain the weather is less hot in winter than yours that they can keep fruits from september to march on trees. or perhaps they induce a second flowering by removing leafs.

Yes, both of those.  I can get a later crop also by flowering in August and September.  But the fruit that hang through winter are not as good and sweet than ones finished by january. 

[albert84]

Pierce is a great tasting variety and early season. Your spacing is sufficient at 7M, but the fruit will likely require hand pollination, especially if in a dry greenhouse, but the misting system could help here. Cherimoyas like a cooler summer and milder winter than what you have, but should be able to manage the extremes if protected/given a nice microclimate. That said, my atemoyas fared much better on the 40+ degree days, even grafted to the same tree. I think it's a great idea for you to experiment with cherimoyas, Pierce is a real winner.

thank you for your answer. when you say milder winter, what is for you the minimum suitable temperature during night winter ?
when I talk about 1°C during night winter, it is not each winter days, very often I have 5/6°C during night winter, 1°C it's only few days each winter.

[K-Rimes]

Pierce is a great tasting variety and early season. Your spacing is sufficient at 7M, but the fruit will likely require hand pollination, especially if in a dry greenhouse, but the misting system could help here. Cherimoyas like a cooler summer and milder winter than what you have, but should be able to manage the extremes if protected/given a nice microclimate. That said, my atemoyas fared much better on the 40+ degree days, even grafted to the same tree. I think it's a great idea for you to experiment with cherimoyas, Pierce is a real winner.

thank you for your answer. when you say milder winter, what is for you the minimum suitable temperature during night winter ?
when I talk about 1°C during night winter, it is not each winter days, very often I have 5/6°C during night winter, 1°C it's only few days each winter.

That sounds like my 9b weather here in CA, around 1000m elevation. You should be fine with cherimoya. It will defoliate in the winter but come back very strong in Spring.

At my house it goes to -3 or -4c fairly often.

[albert84]

That sounds like my 9b weather here in CA, around 1000m elevation. You should be fine with cherimoya. It will defoliate in the winter but come back very strong in Spring.

At my house it goes to -3 or -4c fairly often.

thank you for your answer. do you think that if the minimal temperature was not -3/-4 but only 1 °C like in my greenhouse, they will also defoliate ?
when your cherimoyas defoliate in winter, did you ever tried to bring some fruits to your home to taste them after some days in your home ?

[albert84]

I am located in San Franciso bay area. I have very similar to your weather.

In winter, my area 30F is average but some years going down to 28F. I see some ice on the ground and some young tips and leaves got minor burned.


I am having more than 20 Cherimoya trees outside without and protection in the winter and they are at least 5 years old now. They are 10 feet apart.

My fruits cycle is from July when most varieties are setting fruits to June of the next year when I harvest my fruits.

Around November when temperature of the day drop below 60F that when all fruits stop growing. They stay almost the same size until around March or April when weather get warm again and they will continue to grow. Cherimoya have lots of big leave canopy so they protect the fruits without any damaged.

thank you for your answer. do you think that if the minimal temperature was not 28 F but only 34 F like in my greenhouse, yours cherimoyas will also defoliate like on your picture ?

when in november  the temperature of the day drop below 60F and that fruits stop growing, did you ever tried to bring some fruits to your home to taste them after some days in your home ? perhaps they would be good ?

on your picture the cherimoya is defoliated, so I think it's in winter. if I understand, you already eat cherimoyas on this tree from jully to november, and on the pictures we can see the fruits which stop growing and that you will eat in april/may ? I am right ?

[albert84]

I am located in San Franciso bay area. I have very similar to your weather.

In winter, my area 30F is average but some years going down to 28F. I see some ice on the ground and some young tips and leaves got minor burned.


I am having more than 20 Cherimoya trees outside without and protection in the winter and they are at least 5 years old now. They are 10 feet apart.

My fruits cycle is from July when most varieties are setting fruits to June of the next year when I harvest my fruits.

Around November when temperature of the day drop below 60F that when all fruits stop growing. They stay almost the same size until around March or April when weather get warm again and they will continue to grow. Cherimoya have lots of big leave canopy so they protect the fruits without any damaged.

thank you for your answer. do you think that if the minimal temperature was not 28 F but only 34 F like in my greenhouse and without wind, the cherimoyas will also defoliate like on your picture ?

when in november the temperature of the day drop below 60F and that fruits stop growing, did you ever tried to bring some fruits to your home to taste them after some days in your home ? maybe they would be good ?

on your picture the cherimoya is defoliated, so I think it's in winter. if I understand, you already eat cherimoyas on this tree until november, and on the pictures we can see the fruits which stop growing and that you will eat in april/may ? I am right ?

there are a lot of fruits on your tree. do you make a manual polinisation or only natural polinisation ?

if I understand well, on a same tree you can have flowers and fruits at different step of growing at the same time, so for that I think all the flowers don't come at the same time. is there flowering over a long periode of time ? if I am right, flowers in summer also give fruits despite 103 °F ?

do all varieties of cherimoyas have a flowering over a long periode of time or only few varieties ?

which variety gives ripe fruits from October only (I don't need cherimoyas in july and august because at this time I have a lot of other fruits)?

are the fruits which stop growing in novembre and that you eat in march april as good as the fruits you eat in october ?

can you tell me the varieties which are not damaged at all at 110 °F ?

thank you very much for your answer.

[JF]

Our winter average temps in SoCal is 70 high low 50. Only a handful of times does it drop below 40’s. Southern France is even cooler than Northern California. I would suggest you keep it in the GH for winter or it will die.

[K-Rimes]

France has plenty of 9b in the south, even some in the north on the ocean. Cherimoya are totally fine outdoors in these pink areas on the map.

When it goes below 60f, the fruit tends to not turn out as nice. You shouldn't rely on getting fruit through the winter in your location. In my 9b location here in CA, the fruit that hangs onto the tree through winter tends to not be super sweet or large and often times gets mold if it rains too much. If you have a large and productive tree (push it hard with fertilizer during the growing season) it will probably have enough energy to finish off early season fruit if you thin them.

That photo above with the tons of fruits in it isn't smart for how large that tree is. Better to get 3-4 large and successful fruit than have 50 tiny ones that hang around all winter. I pollinate as much possible then I'll thin them to the best ones.

You will get fruit at 100f, no problem. Same temp as me for summer. I don't think you can really choose a variety that is consistently early bearing - it's more than you only pollinate the early flowers and not the later ones.

For me, the best cherimoya fruits are the earliest ones pollinated in Spring and eaten early winter, or the ones which were pollinated very late and you eat in February - May. I think they benefit from heat units of which there are not many in winter!

Cherimoyas grow many leaves which protect the fruit on super hot sunny days. They will get sunburnt at 110f if the tree does not have enough foliage to cover the fruit. For this reason I think it's wisest to pull fruit sets when the tree is small - let it focus on growing big and strong first. All my cherimoya, atemoya, anonna in general perform just fine in 110, there is no "best" but I am not a collector like the other guys on here so they'll know better.

Also re defoliation, I think you would need to be in 10a for them to not totally defoliate in winter. I have some really ugly leaves still in March, but I pick them off when the tree is getting back to growing season.

[JF]

No they are not fine … and don’t go by 9a growing zone marseilla is 43.50 latitude vs 37 San Jose California.  I have cousins in Barcelona, which is much more milder than south inland marseille, and they’ve failed outside many times. Keep it in the GH

[albert84]

hello, and thank you very much for yours answers. for the weather, K-Rimes and JF you are both right :

in my specific area of Marseille at 30 km of the sea, the weather is much colder than north california, cherimoyas outside would die for sure, because in my area even citrus outside die some winter (-8/-9°C). but as K-Rimes said, there are some specific area (french riviera, Menton, Perpignan) very close to the sea where there are no frost days and where you can grow citrus, avocado outside. but unfortunatly land is very expansive in those area.

[mangoba]

but unfortunatly land is very expansive in those area.

I could find you an affordable land across the Mediterranean

[JF]

hello, and thank you very much for yours answers. for the weather, K-Rimes and JF you are both right :

in my specific area of Marseille at 30 km of the sea, the weather is much colder than north california, cherimoyas outside would die for sure, because in my area even citrus outside die some winter (-8/-9°C). but as K-Rimes said, there are some specific area (french riviera, Menton, Perpignan) very close to the sea where there are no frost days and where you can grow citrus, avocado outside. but unfortunatly land is very expansive in those area.

Hi Albert
I know there might be a microclimate in la Côte d’Azur but one of my cousins lives in la costa brava sitges and he has not succeeded with cherimoya…..

[albert84]

hello JF,

I can confirm you that in few places in France grow cherimoya fruits outside is possible :

https://fjpower.forumgratuit.org/t7097-annona-cherimola-cherimolier

on this link you will see a 30 years old cherimoya covered with fruits which grow outside in a garden of Menton city. the owner of the garden used seed from a spanish cherimoya fruits and he eated very goods fruits in october and novembre. unfortunatly this man died several years ago so I can not ask him questions about cherimoya.

anyway for me it's only in greenhouse.

there are also cherimoyas in garden of nimes city, but there are litle and didn't produce fruits for the moment. the most interesting thing is that those cherimoya in Nimes city don't defoliate during winter, however it can be 0 degrees in this garden on some winter nights. but they are very well protected from the wind, so the wind must have a connection with defoliation during winter ? or perhaps it's only the big trees which defoliate in winter and not the litle trees ? did you ever tried to protect your cherimoyas of wind in automn and winter ?

[albert84]

When it goes below 60f, the fruit tends to not turn out as nice.

thank you very much for your answer.

when in novembre temperature goes below 60 F and that fruits are not so good than in october, are your trees already defoliate or not yet ? because the absence of photosynthesis could be the reason of fruits without sugar ? did you ever tried to protect yours trees of wind in automn and winter ? because in a garden of Nimes city (free of frost) litle cherimoya trees protected of wind don't defoliate during winter, but they didn't already grow fruits so I can not tell you if winter fruits could be better with leaves than without leaves.

For me, the best cherimoya fruits are the earliest ones pollinated in Spring and eaten early winter, or the ones which were pollinated very late and you eat in February - May

for the flowers that had been pollinated very late to eat fruits in febuary/may, are the high temperatures and low humidity not a problem to obtain fruits from these flowers ?

can you tell me, for an adult cherimoya tree, the number of kilos of fruit in a year ? is it the same than for an orange tree ?

if I understand well, even without inducing a second flowering, all varieties of cherimoya blooms naturally for several months ?

I plan to get fruits mainly in october and november. do you think that varieties "el bumpo" and "cumbe" are good choice for that ? I mean do the first flowers that appear on these varieties give ripe fruits in october/november ?

thank you again.

[K-Rimes]

The defoliation really depends on a variety of environmental factors. Sometimes we don't get any cold weather all the way till January, sometimes we get a very early "near frost" and it really hurts the leaves. This year a lot of my trees are in the ground as well, not pots, so maybe it will be different for me. It seems that cherimoya really don't like to be that wet when the weather is cold out, or even mild, so if you get a lot of autumn rain it may make it difficult for them. This is a trend in most of the sub-tropicals and tropicals that produce larger fruit, I note.

Being in a greenhouse I think you won't have any issues at all!

Yield from a tree depends greatly on the size and the amount you are able to successfully pollinate. You also must choose if you want hundreds of small lower quality fruit or fewer high quality large fruit. If it's my personal tree, not for production, I would always pick large high quality fruit (to an extent, they do get kind of mealy or prone to stem rot if they are too big). I have seen large trees produce hundreds of pounds.

My trees start to mildly flower pretty much right out of dormancy, they maybe peak around June / July in flower production, and then resume having sporadic flowers like Spring for autumn.

I cannot speak to certain varieties production, only their fruit quality, and I like El Bumpo a lot.

[albert84]

The defoliation really depends on a variety of environmental factors. Sometimes we don't get any cold weather all the way till January, sometimes we get a very early "near frost" and it really hurts the leaves. This year a lot of my trees are in the ground as well, not pots, so maybe it will be different for me. It seems that cherimoya really don't like to be that wet when the weather is cold out, or even mild, so if you get a lot of autumn rain it may make it difficult for them. This is a trend in most of the sub-tropicals and tropicals that produce larger fruit, I note.

Being in a greenhouse I think you won't have any issues at all!

Yield from a tree depends greatly on the size and the amount you are able to successfully pollinate. You also must choose if you want hundreds of small lower quality fruit or fewer high quality large fruit. If it's my personal tree, not for production, I would always pick large high quality fruit (to an extent, they do get kind of mealy or prone to stem rot if they are too big). I have seen large trees produce hundreds of pounds.

My trees start to mildly flower pretty much right out of dormancy, they maybe peak around June / July in flower production, and then resume having sporadic flowers like Spring for autumn.

I cannot speak to certain varieties production, only their fruit quality, and I like El Bumpo a lot.

thank you very much for your answer.

I do the same for peaches : I prefer large sweet peaches to a lot of little peaches without sugar, so in springtime I remove a lot of flowers.

are the flowers of june / july which give fruits in october / november ?  does the variety el bumpo, like your other trees, reach its peak in flower production in june / july (I suppose that perhaps most of the varieties have their peak of flowers production in june / july) ?

does el bumpo have very few seeds (in France I have choice only between el bumpo, cumbe and fino de jete) ?

[K-Rimes]

Yes, it takes some months for a fruit to fully develop. You'll want to pollinate them ASAP with your shorter  growing season, I would try them all season long and then pick and choose how many to keep into winter.

I do not see much difference between my cherimoyas for flowering, all the same. Atemoya however is later.

Seed count has much to do with how much pollen you use. If you use a lot and they all hit home on the female part of the flower more seeds. You want the minimum amount of flower to ensure fewer seeds.

I would pick el bumpo, of those varieties. Other people can chime in if I'm wrong!