Author Topic: Does this tree have citrus greening?  (Read 1524 times)

Galatians522

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Re: Does this tree have citrus greening?
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2023, 10:14:00 PM »
In terms of ordering a box of honeybells or citrus it was always high but like $25 for a box of 15 or 20. Now it's $100. It's outrageous. Same with road side oranges. Used to be cheap as dirt now super high if you can find them. Usually they are passing California oranges off on the side of the road. Maybe $12 wholesale. If you have a good tree you can make some money selling them mail order.

Yes, $12 per 90lb box is the rounded wholesale number for Valencia oranges from USDA Citrus Statistics and represents mostly fruit that went to the processing plant (since only a small portion of FL Valencias go for fresh fruit). I don't remember the wholesale number for Honeybells for sure, but I think it was around $27 (for a 90lb box). That coud be a little off, though, because they lumped them with tangerines this year since production has gone so low. Your numbers point out exactly the disconnect that I am talking about. The grower is getting a wholesale price of $27 for a 90lb box of Tangelos that are being mailed as 9 boxes with ~10 lbs each at $100 a pop or $900. For growing the crop all year, harvesting it, and hauling it to the packing plant, the grower gets 3%. The middle man and retailer get the other 97%.

Galatians522

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Re: Does this tree have citrus greening?
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2023, 10:51:42 PM »
I researched the brix theory a bit. I found a research paper which stated that there have been no peer reviewed scientific studies done that support this theory. The one study done (not peer reviewed) was done with grapes and showed no difference in insect predation based on leaf brix level.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://organicbc.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/I-101-Brix-Final-Report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwie3PzNjtr8AhUPRjABHZCkBVgQFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2TjjEyI9hcN3AVdEo6jsr1

Coincidentally, spotted winged drosiphilia predation increases significantly in fruits as brix rises above 10.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://catalog.extension.oregonstate.edu/sites/catalog/files/project/pdf/em9263.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiS2LS4lNr8AhUjsDEKHVtIA3g4ChAWegQIChAB&usg=AOvVaw24j_bEsdX8Gk9XmwG5CSJP

I am not saying that these guys are absolutely wrong, but until they support their claims with a double blind study that is published in a peer reviewed scientific journal, it is just their theory. It is also interesting that most of the proponents of the theory are profiting from it in some way.  ???

pagnr

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Re: Does this tree have citrus greening?
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2023, 10:59:48 PM »
I guess Nitrate is the form of Nitrogen. Common forms are Calcium Nitrate, Potassium Nitrate.
There are other N forms such as Urea.
Ammonium Nitrate would supply N in two forms, but lower Nitrate % than straight Nitrate forms for the same total N.
There are also newer slow release complexed N forms that need to break down to release. These are large N molecules, often used in pot mix to time release.
Organic forms can be slower release, lower Nitrate.

The label of the fertiliser should detail the Nitrogen forms that give the total N for the 6-4-6 or 20-10-20
It should say % Urea or % Ammonium nitrate
High Potassium fertilisers could be Potassium Nitrate based as fertilisers are made to a formula to get the NPK and micro balanced
This is the easiest way to get high N high K.
Organic forms can be slower release as discussed above.

Nitrate has problems, but so do Urea and Ammonia in high doses to plants.
I have made a few bungles by charging off on a new direction.
My policy is now add less fertiliser apply twice and see what happens.
I have also repotted with high fertiliser, only to get super growth and pots outgrown quickly.

Apart from Brix to plant health there is also this.

High levels of nitrate in vegetables are frequently reported. The potential hazard of vegetable-borne nitrate is from its conversion to methaemoglobin-producing nitrite before and/or after ingestion. Methaemoglobin cannot bind oxygen and produces a leftward shift in oxygen-dissociation curve, causing hyperaemia.

https://www.horizononline.com/nitrogen-in-slow-release-fertilizer/
https://pacificfertiliser.com/slow-release-nitrogen/3311/

Galatians522

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Re: Does this tree have citrus greening?
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2023, 11:07:06 PM »
Pagnr,

One thing I did see in that research paper was that while there is no support for the brix theory at the moment, there is some evidence that high leaf nitrate levels can increase the level of insect predation.

pagnr

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Re: Does this tree have citrus greening?
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2023, 11:11:50 PM »
I am not saying that these guys are absolutely wrong, but until they support their claims with a double blind study that is published in a peer reviewed scientific journal, it is just their theory. It is also interesting that most of the proponents of the theory are profiting from it in some way.  ???

I think this will erase all your doubts on the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMmSH-628jI

Calusa

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Re: Does this tree have citrus greening?
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2023, 09:47:40 AM »
I am not saying that these guys are absolutely wrong, but until they support their claims with a double blind study that is published in a peer reviewed scientific journal, it is just their theory. It is also interesting that most of the proponents of the theory are profiting from it in some way.  ???

I think this will erase all your doubts on the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMmSH-628jI

 ;D

Galatians522

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Re: Does this tree have citrus greening?
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2023, 12:07:57 PM »
I am not saying that these guys are absolutely wrong, but until they support their claims with a double blind study that is published in a peer reviewed scientific journal, it is just their theory. It is also interesting that most of the proponents of the theory are profiting from it in some way.  ???

I think this will erase all your doubts on the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMmSH-628jI

So, I followed the link expecting a scientific study...You have a great sense of humor! ;D

pagnr

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Re: Does this tree have citrus greening?
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2023, 01:53:12 PM »
Thank you both for the likes.

Well that song has been peer reviewed by other musicians and fans too.
As for double blind, it has been heard on radio alone, and this you tube has no actual video for the song, so that fits too.
Jonathan Richman, one of the USA's finest.

1rainman

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Re: Does this tree have citrus greening?
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2023, 02:34:10 PM »
Florida is Jurassic Park type of insect swarms but I have seldom seen them on citrus other than that one caterpillar that feeds on citrus which you can easily kill by hand. Citrus greening is the only real issue which there is no cure other than the netting they invented. Sometimes black mildew on leaves from humidity which doesn't harm the plant other than blocking sunlight needs cleaned off. I did get tiny slugs eating sap in my container citrus up north. The ants would probably kill them in Florida.

Citrus is super easy to grow everyone is over complicating it.

pagnr

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Re: Does this tree have citrus greening?
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2023, 03:42:55 PM »
I purchased a composted and mineral blend / humane fertiliser /  from a company that promoted the Brix idea to Australia.
I was happy with the plant response, but also later added some regular NPK to get some of those levels up.
In soil less media I was using Osmocote plus micromax for trace plus some iron and lime dolomite.
Overall I thought that bombed out after a while, and the organic amendments seemed to get it going again without repotting.
Once I did notice the full product range from a high NPK fertiliser company, it also included fungicides and insecticides etc to manage the plants grown that way.

Personally I didn't ever try to measure Brix, it could be an interesting tool.
Fertiliser is big business and all are profiting from promoting what they sell.

Humates and Organics have become more mainstream, and retaining soil Carbon on farms is now widely accepted, if not essential.
Years ago this was crackpot hippy nonsense, but now is fairly well accepted and practised.
This fertiliser contains osmocote prills and organic type pellets.
https://gardensuperstore.com.au/osmocote-plus-organics-all-purpose-including-natives-plant-food-soil-improver/?sku=120100&gclid=Cj0KCQiA_bieBhDSARIsADU4zLeaoW7zUtH34hMTtT9Ye3O9i7aATIfqfOec0RN52vPJQoSy-9XGmTMaAppnEALw_wcB

 

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