Growing Mango trees in Southern California

[K-Rimes]

Is that down in Laguna, Janet? I have read your posts and seems the Fallbrook is a more recent planting?

My GF's parents bought some Home Depot manila and "standard" mangoes which are both blasting off really close to the coast. I wish they'd planted them in ground but are prolifically producing for being in pots right now.

I would guess it's not just the climate, but also your soil that's slowing them down.

[JCorte]

K-Rimes

Yes, my heavy clay, alkaline soil, in a cool and humid microclimate is the issue and challenging to grow mangoes.  The pictures from above post are of my trees in Laguna Beach on Florida rootstock. 

Most seedlings have probably done poorly because they were planted directly in the ground and got root rot during their first cold, wet winter in the ground.  I’m sure they would do better planted in pots then planted after they have established some more roots and soil is warmer.

My plantings in Fallbrook are only a year and half old.  So much easier to grow in well draining granite soil in full sun with warm summer days.  Way faster growth rate compared to my home garden.

In the above post, I wanted to share that it is possible to grow in more challenging conditions, just takes more time, persistence, and different strategy.

Janet

[SHV]

My experience with mango seeds, some take off and some just never grow with vigor. I give them a year or two to demonstrate any potential, then cull the low vigor seedlings.
I’m curious about your hypothesis why Florida rootstock trees perform alright in coastal conditions.  I, too, have seen this with three different trees planted in two coastal locations. I always attributed it to the heavy sandy soil and warmer winter conditions.  The coastal trees aren’t nearly as precocious as the inland planted Florida rootstock trees. I think the cool inland night temperatures during winter and early spring stress the trees out to the point they won’t stop flowering throughout the growing season.  Once the trees and root system get to a solid size,  they are less affected by this issue. At least that seems to be my observational hypothesis. 

[SHV]

Brad- thanks for info regarding the drip lines.  I definitely have water remaining in the lines after a run cycle.  I will need to rethink how I setup my system. Right now, all my small seedlings are fed by flag drip emitters directly punched into .5” tubing all spread out over my backhill.  I wanted a cheap temporary solution before investing in real irrigation, in case the seedling experiment turned out to be a bust.  If the seedlings survive a couple more winters, I will need a new system to feed sufficient water to over 200 trees with spray emitters.

[JCorte]

Hi SHV, I’m not just hypothesizing that a mango on turpentine rootstock from Florida can grow okay on the coast.  I currently am growing mango trees 2 blocks from the ocean in Laguna Beach as shown by the pics in my above post.  They are pictures of my fruiting trees planted over 13 years ago.

No doubt they will grow better in warmer climates with better soil.  My trees in Fallbrook are growing way faster with a lot less effort, but I love my mango trees at home and am glad to have them. I think they are beautiful.

Also, to be clear, I agree the best way to grow mango trees in California is to plant seeds and graft when seedlings are mature or allow seedlings to fruit to see what you get.  That is what I’m doing in Fallbrook. 

However, I am also growing trees on Florida rootstock because I want the genetics now and don’t want to wait three years to acquire them.  I’m planting them in my best spots to give them the chance to grow into healthy trees.  If they don’t make it, by then I’ll have backups. 

It’s funny to me that if I had not read all the threads about how bad turpentine rootstock was for California, I wouldn’t have any doubts that they would grow well for me in Fallbrook since I was able to grow them in challenging conditions at home.

I appreciate all the experience and advice Simon and other members in California have shared about growing mangoes.  I’m following their advice and have planted over a hundred seeds.

Janet

[Johnny Eat Fruit]

Hi Janet,

Good to hear you're having success with your mango trees close to the coast. I am a few more miles inland but we have common challenges in growing mango trees in a marginal climate in SoCal.

Can you please post some wide-angle photos of your 13-year-old mango trees on Turpentine and give a description of the height and width of the trees?

Growth in 2022 was good for me as we had some good summer heat. 2021 was poor as temperatures were cool and below normal. 

Enclosed are a few photos of two of my young trees. My oldest one is Sweet Tart which I grafted in 2016 and is six years of age.

Sweet Tart Produced Poorly this year and LZ had no fruit but good growth. Hoping for production on my LZ from 2023-2026.

The mangos that produced well this year for me were Angie and Guava, Both were delicious but different in the flavor profile. 

Much Thanks and good luck

Johnny



Sweet Tart mango Tree (10-6-2022)





Lemon Zest Mango Tree (10-6-22)

[Johnny Eat Fruit]

I wanted to show one other multi-grafted mango tree in my backyard. This is a manila seedling tree I planted in the ground in 2018. I waited two years and in 2020 I started grafting onto it. The tree is now about 10' tall and 6' wide with a good branching structure. I am excited about the rapid growth and fruit production of the Guava Mango I grafted in July 2020.

The first photo shows the "V" Guava cleft graft I did two years ago. That particular limb on the tree is now the strongest on the tree with a 1.5" diameter in just two years at a cooler coastal location. The canopy from this graft now almost takes up to 50% of the mango tree.

The 2nd photo shows more of a wide-angle view of the branching of this young tree. You can also see the blue tape on the R/H side from the Fruit Punch Graft I did this summer.

The 3rd photo shows the Guava Canopy on this tree. It only produced a few fruits but they were excellent and were fully mature by late September.

The 4th photo shows the front of the tree. You can See the Angie graft on the lower right. I also did this graft in 2020 and this year it produced (4) fruit all of which were excellent in the Indian flavor profile. On the far upper left, you can see Raw Honey that I grafted in 2021. This Limb is growing well and I am looking forward to trying the fruit.

The two Cotton Candy grafts I did this year failed so I will try again next year. The fruit Punch graft is growing strong on this tree.

Overall I am satisfied with this multi-grafted mango tree and expect production to pick up as it matures. Currently, I am growing about 25 different varieties of mango at my location and the only way I can try them all is to do multi-grafting on my in-ground trees. With more time I should be able to ascertain the consistency of production and fruit quality but thus far am happy with both Guava and Angie.

Johnny


Guava 2020 Graft to Manila Rootstock


Multi-Grafted Mango Tree Branching Structure



Guava Canopy on Manila Rootstock (10-10-2022)



Multi Grafted Mango Tree Head Shot

[JCorte]

Hi Johnny, you’re mango trees look beautiful and look like actual trees compared to my bush like growth.  So exciting that you are trialing so many varieties and they are growing so well for you!  I wish i would have known about some of the experiences of other growers earlier, but just discovered the forum last year.

I can’t get a good wide angle shot of my tree because it’s planted in the corner of my yard surrounded by fejoia, mandarin, pomegranate, and dragonfruit. 

My tree wasn’t staked after the initial planting so it drooped down to the ground and has three smaller trunks.



Here’s a pic showing its bush like growth.  Tree is about 7-8 feet tall and 8-9 feet wide.  The size and growth habit is actually perfect for me.  I can easily reach all the branches and leaves to prune and foliar feed.  I wouldn’t be complaining though if it was a vigorous large tree.


Janet

[Johnny Eat Fruit]

Hey Janet,

The fruit in the bottom photo looks delicious. About the only thing I have left is a few Nam Doc Mai's. Actually, I am in the process of top working my NDM as I find the quit quality mediocre and the tree is constantly flowering most of the year.

Another variety that looks hopeful from a production standpoint is Val-Carrie. My three-year-old Val-Carrie graft produced over 10 fruits this year unfortunately I had to remove them in early summer to force my branching to go more vertical. Some branches were angled down and I try to avoid this with young trees during the first 3-5 years after planting in the ground. This tree has responded well to the tipping I did earlier. (See attached Photo)

This summer I also Successfully grafted Orange Sherbet and Buttercream and the grafts are growing very well. It's hard to see in the photo as the new grafts are towards the back of the tree.

Take Care

Johnny


Val-Carrie/Mallika Multi Grafted Mango Tree (10-6-2022)

[Samu]

Overall I am satisfied with this multi-grafted mango tree and expect production to pick up as it matures. Currently, I am growing about 25 different varieties of mango at my location and the only way I can try them all is to do multi-grafting on my in-ground trees.
Johnny

Nice going Johnny!  Love seeing your pretty and healthy multi grafted tree! Yes, it’s  city dwellers problem with limited yard space.   

I am planning to do a top work on one of my tree, it’s manila root stock tree; It’s got multiple varieties on it, but I am not please with them, baring one (Sweet Tart). I understand that the best time to do this on mango is around June-October in SoCal? Which grafting method would you guys/gals recommend, grafting on the water shoots or bark grafting method is better?
I supposed if I elect to do water shoots grafting, I better cut the tree about knee high or so now…no? Someone would like to give some opinion please? Thanks!

[Victoria Ave]

Johnny,

Good the hear about the promise of Val-Carrie. I have a cocktail tree with Valencia pride, Carrie and sweet tart. Was thinking about putting Val-Carrie on because it would be fun to have a side by side comparison of the parents and their offspring.

I am surprised by how vigorous the Carrie scion is growing. It was dominating the tree (was grafted this year and over taking grafts from last year) so I bent the branch down for a few weeks using string and an anchor. It has now opened up the center and brought everything a bit more level canopy. Excited to see how these cocktail trees perform!

[JCorte]

Johnny, your trees look so healthy!  I think it's great that members are having success and grafting all these varieties.  In a few years, I look forward to hosting some tasting events.

Janet

[love_Tropic]

After reading lots of information and suggestions, it looks like SoCal weather may not treat Florida Grafted mangos gently (already bought Mallika Keitt from FL)… So, thinking about getting few Manila or Kent seedlings to Graft NDM, Keitt and Mallika or others. All Sr. members Can any you please suggest which one to Graft on to what root stock. Or just to go with all “Manila” root stock?
Also, where to get Scions with good flavor and taste  NDM, Keitt and Mallika? (or other choices like Carrie, Pickering …) I am rally open for all suggestions.

[Johnny Eat Fruit]

I forgot to mention this in my last post but one thing I have discovered is you have greater success grafting onto a strong thick vigorous branch vs weak lower limbs on an existing mango rootstock or seedling tree.

For example, you have a mango tree in the ground. It has (4-5) branches two of those branches are thick and growing upright. One of the branches is medium size and 1-2 branches are smaller in diameter and are weaker in general and usually lower on the tree. Experience has taught me to remove (Cut off) the lower or weaker branches. More of the energy of the tree is directed on the stronger main branches. Graft on to new sprouts from those stronger branches only.

In the past when I grafted new mango scions onto weaker growth the growth was slower relatively to the rest of the tree. I concluded that most of the energy of the root system was being diverted to the stronger (thicker) mango branches. When I started to specifically graft to the stronger branches I noticed more vigorous growth like the guava graft I did in July 2020 onto a thick branch of the manila seedling tree.

Conclusion:  Remove weak grown (especially on younger mango trees) and focus the energy of the tree on 2-3 of the strongest branches. Just my experience for long term success and strong branching.

Johnny

[Samu]

I forgot to mention this in my last post but one thing I have discovered is you have greater success grafting onto a strong thick vigorous branch vs weak lower limbs on an existing mango rootstock or seedling tree.

Conclusion:  Remove weak grown (especially on younger mango trees) and focus the energy of the tree on 2-3 of the strongest branches. Just my experience for long term success and strong branching.

Johnny

Johnny,

I agree, I also notice that whenever I grafted some scions (not necessarily mango) on a weak/small branch on a mature tree, it develops slow or very slow, many eventually died years later. I will keep this in mind on my future grafts work.
I appreciate you taking the time and sharing your valuable experience!

In the mean time, I went ahead and cut my main thick trunk manila down to about 15”, I read that it’s easier to graft on new green  shoots than to do bark grafting on mango. (On the other hand, on stone fruit trees, I had 6 out of 6 successes  bark grafting them). 
So, I am looking forward to do some multi grafting on the new shoots, this coming Summer I hope…

[Johnny Eat Fruit]

Hey Sam.

In general, if I am going to wack a mango tree and start from scratch I will give the mango tree a buzz cut at 48".  The following year new shoots will come up and I would choose the strongest 3-4 shoots and graft on the desired varieties. If the grafts take I would remove all of the other shoots and let the energy of the tree direct growth toward the new grafts. 

Choose your scions carefully prior to grafting. Place your slower-growing varieties such as Angie, buttercream, Mallika, and Ice cream exct on the southern end of the tree as these are moderate-growing trees and smaller in size. Place the more aggressive growing varieties (larger in size) such as Seacrest, 0-15, Guava, Cac, Valencia Pride, and Lemon Zest exct toward the rear on the north end of the tree.  You don't want the fast-growing varieties to block and slower mango scions grafted previously. Remember the slower-growing mango varieties face the sun on the south side of the tree and the fast-growing mango selections grow on the North Side farthest away from the sun.

Good Luck.

Johnny

[Samu]

Good advice Johnny, thanks again!

[love_Tropic]

Can anyone identify this mango tree a keitt or Valencia pride?
Got this from Emily nursery, listed as keitt but looks like Valencia pride to me…

[Oolie]

Keitt is prostrate, falling over consistently, VP is more vigorous and upright, much more well adapted to SoCal.

[love_Tropic]

Keitt is prostrate, falling over consistently, VP is more vigorous and upright, much more well adapted to SoCal.

Thanks!

[Victoria Ave]

Can anyone identify this mango tree a keitt or Valencia pride?
Got this from Emily nursery, listed as keitt but looks like Valencia pride to me…

It looks like keiiit leaves I’ve seen, and my Valencia pride occasionally has leaves varying in shape and form.

I would assume it is what it was labeled as until it fruits.

[love_Tropic]

Can anyone identify this mango tree a keitt or Valencia pride?
Got this from Emily nursery, listed as keitt but looks like Valencia pride to me…

Thanks for the good News! 

It looks like keiiit leaves I’ve seen, and my Valencia pride occasionally has leaves varying in shape and form.

I would assume it is what it was labeled as until it fruits.

[sapote]

Can anyone identify this mango tree a keitt or Valencia pride?
Got this from Emily nursery, listed as keitt but looks like Valencia pride to me…

Why do you want to plant small grafted tree? As mentioned many time in this thread, the best way in SoCal is to plant a seedling and then graft on it when it is 10ft or larger.

Sorry couldn't help on the Q as I would pull out both Keitt and Valencia -- there are many better varieties to have.

[love_Tropic]

Can anyone identify this mango tree a keitt or Valencia pride?
Got this from Emily nursery, listed as keitt but looks like Valencia pride to me…

Why do you want to plant small grafted tree? As mentioned many time in this thread, the best way in SoCal is to plant a seedling and then graft on it when it is 10ft or larger.

Sorry couldn't help on the Q as I would pull out both Keitt and Valencia -- there are many better varieties to have.

Agreed! Bought this before knowing about these excelled suggestions from several knowledgeable patrons…
Anyway, planning to grow this tree in containers until it develops 2+ inch trunk (now It’s around 3ft height) Also, planning to move indoors during our cold nights and long rainy (rarely happening anymore) days in SoCal . Hopefully in 2 years, plant in-ground. Looking for suggestions to grow in containers…
Also, planning to start Sweet Tart seedlings (and  may be Valencia Grafting on Kent)

[love_Tropic]

looking for suggestions from experts , having an Ataulfo tree (4+ yr old 7+ ft tall) in a 30 Gal. container… Will this work to do topwork with 2 different variety? Never did anything like that... on the other side don’t want to kill the tree either...