1
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Is it yangmei?
« on: January 18, 2025, 02:42:59 PM »
No, Yangmei does not have thorns.
The Tropical Fruit Forum
Uniting Growers Worldwide!
News:
We are looking for Facebook editors for the forum's Facebook page.
Show Posts
This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.
2
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Food Forest Help Needed
« on: January 18, 2025, 02:40:30 PM »
I think part of it depends on how long you want to grow them before you begin pruning. When Central Florida was entirely a farm community and land was cheap because they hadn't invented air conditioning, lychee and citrus were planted 40' x 40'. Given time, the trees would fill that entire space (particularly lychee). They would also grow about that tall and the tops of the trees would consequently be almost impossible to harvest.
After the 1980s they planted on 25' x 15' spacing. Lychee planted 18' x 18' will have full canopy cover in 15-20 years here. 40' x 40' would take about 40 years from what I have seen. Its about 1' a year once they get going (some varieties like Emperor are slower growers).
I agree with what K-Rimes said about needing space to move around. I think its better to squeeze trees in the row rather than squeezing the rows. For example 20' x 15' gives you more space to move down the rows and more trees per acre than 18' x 18'.
After the 1980s they planted on 25' x 15' spacing. Lychee planted 18' x 18' will have full canopy cover in 15-20 years here. 40' x 40' would take about 40 years from what I have seen. Its about 1' a year once they get going (some varieties like Emperor are slower growers).
I agree with what K-Rimes said about needing space to move around. I think its better to squeeze trees in the row rather than squeezing the rows. For example 20' x 15' gives you more space to move down the rows and more trees per acre than 18' x 18'.
3
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tropical Apple/Pear Relatives
« on: January 18, 2025, 02:16:27 PM »Great info about disease resistant varieties for the tropics, Galatians. I had no idea apples were growing in Uganda.
Along with the varieties you mentioned, I'm also surprised Granny Smith isn't on the ☺ list, Jan Doolin reports it's one of the best varieties she grows.
I was fairly surprised myself. Some one on the forum brought Kuffle Creek up in a discussion and educated me. I was wondering about Granny Smith, too. Maybe its just not well adapted to Uganda's conditions. Possibly a susceptibility to something that is only seasonal here but that would be a constant issue in the highland tropics like powdery mildew? They also detested Ein Sheimer which Fruit Wood Nursery claims is good and highly disease resistant. Jan said Ein Sheimer was her best producer, even if the apples were not as sweet as some. We had an Ein Sheimer on dwarfing rootstock 30 years ago. I don't recall that it ever bloomed. Maybe it was mislabeled.
4
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Air layering large loquat branch
« on: January 18, 2025, 12:53:13 PM »
Never air layered Loquat, but I have air layered thousands of lychee. I have done everything from 1/4" to 1 & 1/2" branches no problem. I like 3/4" that are in full sun best (its also nice to have them fairly upright). Friends have layered up to 3" branches. The size is not really that important. Whatever you layer has to be cut back to match the roots when it is cut off anyway. Larger branches will typically throw roots faster than small ones but will need to be cut back more when they are removed. If you are doing a large branch use lots of spaghnum moss.
5
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cordia taguahyensis - Brazilian Milk Fruit
« on: January 17, 2025, 07:19:15 PM »
Just learned that this is the only fruit in the world known to be pollinated by a frog...Crazy!
6
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cordia taguahyensis - Brazilian Milk Fruit
« on: January 17, 2025, 03:26:24 PM »
Does anyone know if this is one of the Cordia species sold in the wood trade as Bocote? It is such a beautiful wood.
7
Citrus General Discussion / Re: UF researchers exp breakthrough approach to combat devastating citrus greening
« on: January 17, 2025, 03:17:15 PM »
I wonder if leaves are necessary for the peptide production.
8
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tropical Apple/Pear Relatives
« on: January 17, 2025, 03:15:14 PM »
The G 890 does look interesting (50%-70% of standard size with high fire blight resistance).
Here is a link to an apple nursery in Uganda. I love how they put a ☺ next to the disease resistant varieties. Its interesting that the three with the lowest chill requirement (by bloom time) Anna, Dorset Gold, and Shell of Alabama all are listed as disease susceptible. King David and Revrend Morgan looked interesting and disease resistant. King David is also a very hard apple until ripe which suposedly helps with insect pressure.
https://www.kuffelcreekapplenursery.com/apple_varieties.htm
Regarding Malus doumeri var. formosana, there is probably significant difference in tree size based on soil type. The original Vietnamese specimen that was used to describe the species (when it was still thought to be part of Docynia) was massive. I think the description said 4' trunk and over 60' tall, but don't quote me.
Here is a link to an apple nursery in Uganda. I love how they put a ☺ next to the disease resistant varieties. Its interesting that the three with the lowest chill requirement (by bloom time) Anna, Dorset Gold, and Shell of Alabama all are listed as disease susceptible. King David and Revrend Morgan looked interesting and disease resistant. King David is also a very hard apple until ripe which suposedly helps with insect pressure.
https://www.kuffelcreekapplenursery.com/apple_varieties.htm
Regarding Malus doumeri var. formosana, there is probably significant difference in tree size based on soil type. The original Vietnamese specimen that was used to describe the species (when it was still thought to be part of Docynia) was massive. I think the description said 4' trunk and over 60' tall, but don't quote me.
9
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Food Forest Help Needed
« on: January 17, 2025, 09:00:37 AM »
Lychee and Logan make big trees. I would consider them "overstory."
10
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Florida Cold Fronts (and Mangos)
« on: January 16, 2025, 10:47:15 PM »I didn't know lights could burn the tree. I'll have to be careful not to go crazy with it
I don't know how real the next week prediction is but it look really scary 😭 so I got a bunch more lights to prepare for the worst. Got more blankets too hoping it would be enough to keep them warm.
It won't be an issue while it is cold. Mine only did it because the light didn't get turned off after it got hot.
11
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Can any one identify this Longan plant?
« on: January 16, 2025, 10:44:54 PM »
If its properly done, it should not hurt the tree. It is very common in Thailand. I am from Florida.
12
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Florida Cold Fronts (and Mangos)
« on: January 16, 2025, 05:41:31 PM »
That is exactly how I cooked my first mango tree. The tree was covered with plastic and had a 100watt work light for heat. The light did not get unplugged. Later that day when the temps got up close to 70 the tree boiled sap out the tips of the branches. Fortunately, the rootstock was a Nam Doc Mai seedling and I ended up with a decent tree inspite of all that.
13
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Can any one identify this Longan plant?
« on: January 16, 2025, 11:50:54 AM »
Dr. King, while I am not familiar with the ping pong Logan, I understand that Logan can be forced to flower with Potassium chlorate spray. This differs from lychee which must have cold. You should be able to find info online.
14
Citrus General Discussion / Re: UF researchers exp breakthrough approach to combat devastating citrus greening
« on: January 16, 2025, 11:43:52 AM »You all can graft fingerlime or Australian Desert Lime to your citrus tree so the graft nurses the tree. Just keep a short branch growing .
I’ve grafted fingerlime to my trees.
I’m waiting on them to push.
ADL is better but I can’t get ADL shipped here.
That sounds just crazy enough to work...I need to read up on that.
15
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tropical Apple/Pear Relatives
« on: January 15, 2025, 10:15:30 PM »
I have seen some of JR's videos before. I did not realize that he had a nursery. It is quite remarkable to see what he has throwing fruit there in Orlando. I wonder if he grows anything on standard roots.
It seems interesting to me that many apples found in low chill areas are seedlings. Granny Smith pops up quite a bit in the family tree, too. The Revrend Morgan apple from Houston, Texas (for example) was a Granny Smith seedling.
Eliza Greenman (Hog Tree) has some very interesting thoughts on the topic...
"The Fruit Explorers, a group of which I’m a founding member (along with Pete Halupka of Harvest Roots Farm and Ferment), traveled around the South last year looking for all sorts of apple trees. By far, the healthiest trees we found were those on standard rootstock or growing on their own roots. We were in the hot, humid, zone 7a-8a South which is known for all sorts of rots, fireblight strikes, fungal infections…you name it. And the trees that looked the best were the big ones. All of this observation caused me to believe that we probably have the best chances of growing low-input trees if they are on big roots."
Here is the link to the rest of the blog.
https://elizapples.com/tag/root-graft/
Everything she says makes sense to me. Very occationally you find an old pear tree around here. They are grafted to Callery pear (standard) roots. I've never found an "old" apple tree around here and I can assure you it was not for lack of planting. Is Malus doumeri var. formosana the Callery pear of apples (hopefully without the invasive tendencies)?
It seems interesting to me that many apples found in low chill areas are seedlings. Granny Smith pops up quite a bit in the family tree, too. The Revrend Morgan apple from Houston, Texas (for example) was a Granny Smith seedling.
Eliza Greenman (Hog Tree) has some very interesting thoughts on the topic...
"The Fruit Explorers, a group of which I’m a founding member (along with Pete Halupka of Harvest Roots Farm and Ferment), traveled around the South last year looking for all sorts of apple trees. By far, the healthiest trees we found were those on standard rootstock or growing on their own roots. We were in the hot, humid, zone 7a-8a South which is known for all sorts of rots, fireblight strikes, fungal infections…you name it. And the trees that looked the best were the big ones. All of this observation caused me to believe that we probably have the best chances of growing low-input trees if they are on big roots."
Here is the link to the rest of the blog.
https://elizapples.com/tag/root-graft/
Everything she says makes sense to me. Very occationally you find an old pear tree around here. They are grafted to Callery pear (standard) roots. I've never found an "old" apple tree around here and I can assure you it was not for lack of planting. Is Malus doumeri var. formosana the Callery pear of apples (hopefully without the invasive tendencies)?
16
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« on: January 15, 2025, 09:07:29 AM »Re: Rootstock, suckering and long-term graft compatibility were mentioned as potential issues with grafting yangmei to M. cerifera rootstock in early FL USDA trials (https://journals.flvc.org/fshs/article/download/99102/95087/0).
It'd be interesting to know what happened to the yangmei plants imported by USDA to Gainesville and Groveland, FL (and TX and GA).
The University of Georgia reported 33-78% success rooting semi-hardwood cuttings in their 2019-2022 yangmei trials (https://ipps.org/uploads/docs/5b_sr_hutzell_2023.pdf) but very low success with hardwood cuttings.
Very interesting article, RS. Its nice to know that there were low chill yangmei from Okinawa that would likely fruit in Central Florida (since they were too low chill for Gainesville).
It is amazing how frequently this part of the state has been over looked when introductions are made. A tree does not like the cold in Gainesville or the limerock soil in South Florida. Surely it wouldn't grow halfway between the two...
17
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tropical Apple/Pear Relatives
« on: January 14, 2025, 09:52:56 PM »Interesting, i wonder how they taste?
I always take our WA apples for granted lol
Not that great fresh from what I understand due to some astringency. They would probably taste fine in a crabapple jelly or pickle recipes. Use as a rootstock and in hybridization with cultuvated apple would be the main interest.
However, I have never tasted either. So, I may be wrong. Hopefully, someone who has experience can comment.
18
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Tropical Apple/Pear Relatives
« on: January 14, 2025, 07:55:54 PM »
Is anyone out there growing tropical apple relatives such as Assam Apple (Docynia indica) or Taiwan Crabapple (Malus doumeri var formosana)?
My curiosity was pricked by a video from Jan Dolin showing a Granny Smith apple fruiting (somewhat sparsely) in her central Florida yard. If the tree had been larger, the yield would not have been that bad. It made me think that the dwarfing rootstocks used for most apples are not good for Florida.
That reminded me of some reading I had done in the past. Apparently, Assam Apple is quite graft compatible with Quince and pear and is an evergreen native to tropical and sub tropical India. Taiwan Crabapple is native to subtropical southern China and tropical Vietnam (where it is reported to grow with coffee and citrus). John Fairey gardens apparently has a specimine in Texas that is quite at home.
My curiosity was pricked by a video from Jan Dolin showing a Granny Smith apple fruiting (somewhat sparsely) in her central Florida yard. If the tree had been larger, the yield would not have been that bad. It made me think that the dwarfing rootstocks used for most apples are not good for Florida.
That reminded me of some reading I had done in the past. Apparently, Assam Apple is quite graft compatible with Quince and pear and is an evergreen native to tropical and sub tropical India. Taiwan Crabapple is native to subtropical southern China and tropical Vietnam (where it is reported to grow with coffee and citrus). John Fairey gardens apparently has a specimine in Texas that is quite at home.
19
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Black Sapote Flavor Test (Lara Farms)
« on: January 14, 2025, 10:31:33 AM »
Here is a recipe for what Adam is talking about. Should work even better with Black Sapote...
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.oddbox.co.uk/recipes/persimmon-chocolate-dessert&ved=2ahUKEwigkvujw_WKAxWUSjABHQm3EZYQFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Y4HTovAMhUJ5rmhhetWYD
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.oddbox.co.uk/recipes/persimmon-chocolate-dessert&ved=2ahUKEwigkvujw_WKAxWUSjABHQm3EZYQFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Y4HTovAMhUJ5rmhhetWYD
20
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Canistel Flavor Test (Lara Farms)
« on: January 14, 2025, 10:26:38 AM »
They look very similar. I wonder if hybrids exist. 
21
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Canistel Flavor Test (Lara Farms)
« on: January 13, 2025, 07:39:51 PM »
Could it possibly be a lucuma?
22
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2025 Mango season
« on: January 12, 2025, 10:06:20 PM »Sulfur 1 tablespoon per gal today and sprayed lawn around trees to clear hose. Drizzled out yesterday.
NO flowers open yet, i expected bursting today.
Hope ya'll experiencing what's looking fun eating this spring/summer.
I never tasted phoenix or peach cobbler. Fingers crossed they make me say wow.
Cogshall & Kent i love. M4 hasn't wow'd me yet but edible skin is nice & it's strong tree.
Couple yrs ago knocked chunk out trunk with mower. It healed so fast amazed me.
Pickering also got hit and barely recovered 100% after same time.
That's why i built the easy wooden planter/mover guards. Works.
Let Peach Cobbler get all the way ripe or it will be a Tangerine flavored Sour Patch kid. I thought it was misnamed until I tried it ripe.
23
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Swimming pool container for fruit trees
« on: January 12, 2025, 09:59:16 PM »
I guess I view things a little differently because we have no rock layer here (well, maybe 200' down). It probably does not make a difference if you have concrete buried in a place where rock is natural. If it were mine, it would always bug me to know that I had concrete buried in my yard.
24
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Florida Cold Fronts (and Mangos)
« on: January 12, 2025, 08:02:58 PM »
Hi Rain, I don't have any pictures. I guess those were days we didn't want to remember. 😂 Cold, wet, and grouchy. 😬
I was just over at the farm with my Dad today and he did not have any set up to photograph either. He did have some small trees that he covered with the landscape felt when it was cold, but he had already uncovered them.
There was no structure. We used the same red (maxijet) microsprinkler that provided irrigation to supply the heat source, threw the landscape felt blanket over the tree, and put a giant bag over the whole thing. The "bag" was a 10' section that we had cut from a silage and wired shut at the top. We shoveled sand around the base to keep it weighted down.
Microjet, blanket, bag, and sand. The whole thing only took a couple minutes per tree--which sounds great until you have hundreds of trees and its the 18th frost of the year. Lol!
I was just over at the farm with my Dad today and he did not have any set up to photograph either. He did have some small trees that he covered with the landscape felt when it was cold, but he had already uncovered them.
There was no structure. We used the same red (maxijet) microsprinkler that provided irrigation to supply the heat source, threw the landscape felt blanket over the tree, and put a giant bag over the whole thing. The "bag" was a 10' section that we had cut from a silage and wired shut at the top. We shoveled sand around the base to keep it weighted down.
Microjet, blanket, bag, and sand. The whole thing only took a couple minutes per tree--which sounds great until you have hundreds of trees and its the 18th frost of the year. Lol!
25
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Swimming pool container for fruit trees
« on: January 12, 2025, 12:56:41 PM »
Quick lime is fine. Aluminum oxide is not good for plants, though.
SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk